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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Where is he wrong with that? Donít you think good cops should be paid more?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We could start with just not assigning them to desk jobs and taking their weapons, not illegally barging into their apartment, and not illegally committing them to the psych ward for raising concerns about valid, confirmed problems.

    I notice you didn't even bother acknowledging that, though.


    "It is a grotesque parody of the bazaar at Marrakech, as if dumb animals had been granted only the amount of sentience required to mock humanity."

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Weird. I haven't seen anyone here reflexively defending bad teachers. All I've seen is people making the argument that they should be paid better (an argument you also made but only in relation to your sister).

    It doesn't require a ton of nuance or any particular political affiliation to realize that there are good and bad members of every profession (and that a rogue policeman is much more of a danger to society than a crap teacher that's simply going through the motions).

    Again though, what in your experience and/or research leads you to think that an overwhelming percentage of teachers are trash and in no way deserve some sort of pay hike? And if you think your statements are being misinterpreted or taken out of context, it's not too late to tell us what you really meant to say.
    I believe that just like with cops, teachers can develop a very toxic attitude. And they belong to a union that doesnt face competition.

    And these unions typically have a ton of political power at the local level. Red states usually cops have way too much political sway and blue states its teachers.


    So you get a ton of misinformation in regard to these professions. Blue voters blindly accept teachers unions excuses. Claiming they are both extremely valuable professions, done by people with a unique skill set but also completely impossible to determine an individuals performance.

    I think people ate just narrowing in on a stat i clearly made up. Because they dont like the reality of the things i say.

    With cops we see it all the time. If the union is overprotective of bad cops, the problem festers in that station.

    I think its the same with teachers. Protecting bad teachers can create a toxic environment. Is calling for accountability to much to ask.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Sure!

    How much more would you say we have to pay cops before they stop murdering black people?

    It's amazing how you don't see etc. etc.
    Yes. I dont overblow a problem and pretend defunding cops is going to lead to LESS murdered black people.

    But hey, continue to moral grand stand by being a literal white knight. When defunding the police has been an objective failure. And people in suburbs try to talk about how dangerous cops are while the people they pretend to care about get ****ed.

    Tell me, you been to Seattle in the last 3 years? Is it safer?

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    There are shortages in some states, sure.

    And i probably didnt ignore it, just didnt see it. You can post it again if you want. I dont deny states like Kentucky need to raise their pay. But this notion that teachers make too little money nationwide is BS.

    And i dont think anyone denies that there are more than one factor to why a student does well or not. But I find it a bit ridiculous to act as if we cant isolate a variable when allowed to collect data. Teachers unions constantly get in the way of collecting the data, then say "its impossible to determine!"

    Again teacjers constantly push against standardized testing, block periods, and ask for smaller classes. Yet all the data shows block periods make for better learning. Class room size is not that big of a deal except in extreme circumstances. And stabdardized testing can be effective.

    So data on class size is wrong, testing is wrong, length of class time is wrong. And determining teachers value us impossible?

    Sounds like some BS.
    This post is full of claims.

    But this notion that teachers make too little money nationwide is BS.

    https://usafacts.org/articles/teache...-of-education/

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/11/why-...in-the-us.html

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uring-pandemic

    It's a nationwide problem. I've worked with teachers from various parts of the country (rural, urban, etc.) and their experience also supports the data.

    But I find it a bit ridiculous to act as if we cant isolate a variable when allowed to collect data. Teachers unions constantly get in the way of collecting the data, then say "its impossible to determine!"

    The first statement is contradictory. You can't acknowledge that there are multiple variables that contribute to student success and then ask to isolate a variable to determine teacher pay. That is illogical.

    If you can provide examples of unions that have gotten in the way of collecting data, I'd be happy to read about it. Everything I've read and experienced as part of a union is that more and more data is being collected as time goes on. We have functioning level data such as F&P testing, i-Ready, lexile levels, state test scores, practice tests, exit tickets, report card grades, evaluations that included dozens of tests (ie. WISC is one of them but listing them all will take a while) and the list goes on and on.

    Again teacjers constantly push against standardized testing, block periods, and ask for smaller classes. Yet all the data shows block periods make for better learning. Class room size is not that big of a deal except in extreme circumstances. And stabdardized testing can be effective.

    Standardized testing is a bad thing.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...tion-education

    https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/uk/...ing-takes-over

    https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-c...rdized-testing

    And then there's the obvious greed associated with standardized testing:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-b...ardi_b_9785988

    https://rethinkingschools.org/specia...mine-for-gold/

    And this doesn't even get into the charter school world where students no longer learn. They spend every day doing test prep. I've seen it, and I've unfortunately worked in a setting like that. It's a terrible thing and does not prepare students for the competitive global stage.

    Class size has a significant impact:

    https://www.brookings.edu/research/c...-state-policy/

    https://www.usnews.com/education/k12...ss-size-matter

    Again, my experience and the experience of those who I've worked with also align with the data. There are classes of 30+ students in many states across the country. This is in stark contrast to the class sizes of 15 or less in more affluent neighborhoods or private schools.

    So you've made claim after claim without providing any evidence. I've shared many data points with you while also sharing my hands on experience in the profession. We need to vote in politicians who are going to care more investing in our education system rather than investing in the latest weapon of mass murder.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Thats the thing really, there are fantastic teachers that do amazing things to change the lives of their students.

    Then there are a plethora of lazy teachers who are jaded as hell, and are just garbage at their job and get away with doing the bare minimum.

    My cousin has her Masters from UW. She grew up with 2 heroine addicted parents she took care of. She works at a low income school with kids that have problems at home, like she did growing up.

    Every time i see her she pulls out a class photo and tells me stories about each kid. Shes a Saint. She deserves 200k a year.

    But she is a ****ing anomaly. Not the norm. For everyone of her, theres 1000 lazy *** teachers doing the absolute bare minimum.
    And this is the problem. Your propaganda "news" channels and websites have conditioned you to believe something that has zero data to support it.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Police stations canít hire enough cops the way it is because of douchebags like you guys on here who will trash the entire profession

    They need more training while the demand for cops is so low..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Right now there is a lack of data on why there is a shortage of cops, but one could easily speculate that people don't want to fight for a structure rooted and racism and elitism.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Ok. You need to use your brain a bit. Because im not going to qualify every statement i make. Because every state has different issues regarding teaching. Down to ever county, city, school district.

    In my state, yes its been impossible in just about every district to push this change. And its because the teachers dont want it and the union actively fights against it. It would eliminate the break period for teachers, and require less staff.
    And here is the problem with republicans. No need to "qualify every statement". Just make claims, right?

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    We should up their pay then right?

    More pay = better policing!

    Derrrrrpppppp!!!!

    Its amazing how you guys dont see the contradiction you make in the same thread.
    Or we should make their pay merit based. The fewer people of color they beat and kill, the higher the pay!

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Yes. I dont overblow a problem and pretend defunding cops is going to lead to LESS murdered black people.

    But hey, continue to moral grand stand by being a literal white knight. When defunding the police has been an objective failure. And people in suburbs try to talk about how dangerous cops are while the people they pretend to care about get ****ed.

    Tell me, you been to Seattle in the last 3 years? Is it safer?
    Whoops! You rambled on and didn't actually answer my question.

    How much more do we need to pay police to stop murdering black people?

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Whoops! You rambled on and didn't actually answer my question.

    How much more do we need to pay police to stop murdering black people?
    According to their logic, a cop's salary should be merit based. The fewer people of color they kill or beat, the more they get paid!

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I agree. We should enslave teachers and not pay them. Why do teachers think they deserve a salary...
    Never said or indicated that in the slightest. It's your brain that made that up for you. Get help.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, crovash, nastynice, natepro, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Deal. With. The. Opioid. Crisis.

    Learn from our former mistakes during the drug war. Target the big fish in these operations. Rehabilitate the ones with no violent background or bug time distribution. Be tactical, in how we approach the situation.

    No politician wants to deal with the problem because its political suicide, and wont show results till years down the road.
    no, what is your solution for police reform, since it's clearly needed. The war on drugs will always be a failure. The only way to curb it at all is to end poverty and suffering. Let me know when you can figure that out...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Police stations canít hire enough cops the way it is because of douchebags like you guys on here who will trash the entire profession

    They need more training while the demand for cops is so low..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    poor cops...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Where is he wrong with that? Donít you think good cops should be paid more?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They generally are, as it's a very structured tenure/promotion system. But no, until the police protects and serves, instead of kinda protects and starts violent altercations while targeting people of color, they are paid just fine.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I believe that just like with cops, teachers can develop a very toxic attitude.
    any profession can develop a toxic attitude. But only one of them is given weapons of war, and the authority to use violence at their discretion with minimal consequences.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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