Teacher Salaries

[MRSpock]

I provided evidence. You ignored it.

"because there are many factors involved in productivity." --> yet republicans want a merit based pay system for teachers. There are many factors outside the teachers control that affect student outcomes.

Putting "bad pay" in quotes like that diminishes reality. Teachers are underpaid given their level of education and working hours. This is fact. It's been shown time and time again.

"Continue to enter the profession: --> there are shortages across the country. Not sure where you got this lie from.

Money would be better spent on all things education: teacher pay, facilities, materials, etc. Students and teachers shouldn't have to fight over the scraps left by the elite.

There are shortages in some states, sure.

And i probably didnt ignore it, just didnt see it. You can post it again if you want. I dont deny states like Kentucky need to raise their pay. But this notion that teachers make too little money nationwide is BS.

And i dont think anyone denies that there are more than one factor to why a student does well or not. But I find it a bit ridiculous to act as if we cant isolate a variable when allowed to collect data. Teachers unions constantly get in the way of collecting the data, then say "its impossible to determine!"

Again teacjers constantly push against standardized testing, block periods, and ask for smaller classes. Yet all the data shows block periods make for better learning. Class room size is not that big of a deal except in extreme circumstances. And stabdardized testing can be effective.

So data on class size is wrong, testing is wrong, length of class time is wrong. And determining teachers value us impossible?

Sounds like some BS.

[MRSpock]

Sure, hold police accountable, and hit them financially with penalties. Take funding from their weapon supply and re-direct it into ongoing training on non-violent escalation. Get rid of qualified immunity, and much more.

The problem is, no level of reform has worked yet. A massive overhaul needs to happen by force. If it doesn't, defund and build community responders to handle non-violent crime calls.

We all get you can't change a culture overnight. But police actions need to be changed, now.

The irony of community responders being called for makes me feel like the plot has been lost.

And in Washington, its worked terribly. The plan was to cut funding by 50%. At 17% the increase in crime has been huge. And the politicians calling for the defunding have gotten cold feet. Especially in poor areas. Organized crime has devolped accross the state running Fentanyl, and businesses have started to leave.

All weve accomplished is hurting ouselves.

[Hawkeye15]

There are shortages in some states, sure.

And i probably didnt ignore it, just didnt see it. You can post it again if you want. I dont deny states like Kentucky need to raise their pay. But this notion that teachers make too little money nationwide is BS.

And i dont think anyone denies that there are more than one factor to why a student does well or not. But I find it a bit ridiculous to act as if we cant isolate a variable when allowed to collect data. Teachers unions constantly get in the way of collecting the data, then say "its impossible to determine!"

Again teacjers constantly push against standardized testing, block periods, and ask for smaller classes. Yet all the data shows block periods.

So data on class size is wrong, testing is wrong, length of class time is wrong. And determining teachers value us impossible?

Sounds like some BS.

your entire post sounds like BS.

At the heart of at least two of the above factors, is the low teacher pay. Teachers are paid 21% less than other career paths that require a college degree.

For every state and every school district that is experiencing these shortages, the following is also true:

There has been a teacher shortage in special education going on longer than all of this.
The number of college students studying special education has been in decline forever.
Special education teachers have long experienced being overworked.
Special education teachers had routinely been pulled to cover other teachers’ classes.

According to Universities, an online news site, here are the top states with teacher shortages:

1. California

2. Nevada

3. Washington

4. Arizona

5. Hawaii

6. Indiana

7. Washington, D.C.

8. Virginia

9. Nebraska

10. Montana

Nevada students started school on August 8, 2022, with a shortage of over 1400 Teachers.

Florida is recruiting military Veterans to teach without a license to help the Teacher shortage and Polk County has hired 60 international Teachers.

Georgia is attempting to recruit retired Teachers – with little success

New Jersey is implementing a pilot program to allow individuals with workforce experience to pursue a Teaching Certificate even if they don’t have the grades or higher education requirements

Texas’ rural school districts are implementing a 4-day school week to alleviate the Teacher shortage. Houston, TX currently has over 2200 teaching vacancies.

New York City announced new investments into the education system to help remedy the teacher shortage. From large incentives to recruit retired educators and those who left the profession to accelerating the teacher certification process and providing school districts with billions in funding.

Daly City, California is offering affordable housing to their Teachers with greatly reduced rent prices

School districts across the country are planning to spend billions on staff retention, attrition, bonuses, and pay increases.

The U.S. Department of Education partners with school districts across the country to address the teacher shortage – full press release ed.gov

https://phys.org/news/2022-08-teache...ges-state.html

Every state has a teacher shortage. This was called out 10+ years ago, with a prediction that nearly 10% of the needed teacher force will be empty (no fill) by 2025. We have surpassed that guess.

Teachers need to be paid more, without a doubt. The mere fact we prioritize paying our absolutely essential workers such ****** wages, and especially considering teachers are generally required to have college degrees (until now, see veterans teaching in FL without any license due to their massive shortage), we need to not only pay the force we have in place more to retain/motivate, but also to increase the desire for more to enter the teaching profession as currently teachers are leaving FAR faster than coming in.

[Hawkeye15]

The irony of community responders being called for makes me feel like the plot has been lost.

And in Washington, its worked terribly. The plan was to cut funding by 50%. At 17% the increase in crime has been huge. And the politicians calling for the defunding have gotten cold feet. Especially in poor areas. Organized crime has devolped accross the state running Fentanyl, and businesses have started to leave.

All weve accomplished is hurting ouselves.

and what is your solution?

[MRSpock]

I am good friends with 8 teachers from grade school through highschool. Every single one of them put a lot of hours in but they also choose when those hours are put in. There is zero structure in the profession. They are left to do things at their pace, not at the student's pace. Teaching is a very rogue profession and covid made it 100% worse. Their mentally is basically if the kids don't give a ****, either do we.

My son is a junior in highschool and an honor student and he still doesn't have papers graded from last semester. We get a weekly automated call from his school telling us he's failing two classes when in reality, the teachers just haven't graded the assignments. Many of them with heavy weighted points.

Thats the thing really, there are fantastic teachers that do amazing things to change the lives of their students.

Then there are a plethora of lazy teachers who are jaded as hell, and are just garbage at their job and get away with doing the bare minimum.

My cousin has her Masters from UW. She grew up with 2 heroine addicted parents she took care of. She works at a low income school with kids that have problems at home, like she did growing up.

Every time i see her she pulls out a class photo and tells me stories about each kid. Shes a Saint. She deserves 200k a year.

But she is a ****ing anomaly. Not the norm. For everyone of her, theres 1000 lazy *** teachers doing the absolute bare minimum.

[natepro]

But she is a ****ing anomaly. Not the norm. For everyone of her, theres 1000 lazy *** teachers doing the absolute bare minimum.

You're just wildly making up numbers here based on essentially nothing but your feelings.

[MRSpock]

and what is your solution?

Deal. With. The. Opioid. Crisis.

Learn from our former mistakes during the drug war. Target the big fish in these operations. Rehabilitate the ones with no violent background or bug time distribution. Be tactical, in how we approach the situation.

No politician wants to deal with the problem because its political suicide, and wont show results till years down the road.

[MRSpock]

You're just wildly making up numbers here based on essentially nothing but your feelings.

Yes. Just like the hours teachers work.

And i think it's pretty obvious im not claiming thats hard data...

[natepro]

Again teacjers constantly push against standardized testing, block periods, and ask for smaller classes. Yet all the data shows block periods.

They don't push against block periods.

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-c...-students-need

[natepro]

Yes. Just like the hours teachers work.

And i think it's pretty obvious im not claiming thats hard data...

Zing!

It's not that you're not claiming it's hard data; it's that it's made up out of whole cloth. You're essentially arguing that 99% of teachers are terrible based on nothing. You may as well argue that your psychic friend told you.

[spliff(TONE)]

But this notion that teachers make too little money nationwide is BS.

What makes you say that?

[spliff(TONE)]

Thats the thing really, there are fantastic teachers that do amazing things to change the lives of their students.

Then there are a plethora of lazy teachers who are jaded as hell, and are just garbage at their job and get away with doing the bare minimum.

My cousin has her Masters from UW. She grew up with 2 heroine addicted parents she took care of. She works at a low income school with kids that have problems at home, like she did growing up.

Every time i see her she pulls out a class photo and tells me stories about each kid. Shes a Saint. She deserves 200k a year.

But she is a ****ing anomaly. Not the norm. For everyone of her, theres 1000 lazy *** teachers doing the absolute bare minimum.

1,000:1 seems like quite the extreme claim. Of course there's plenty of bad teachers out there (just as there plenty of bad *insert name of most any occupation here*), no need to exaggerate in an attempt to sell your stance.

[spliff(TONE)]

Zing!

It's not that you're not claiming it's hard data; it's that it's made up out of whole cloth. You're essentially arguing that 99% of teachers are terrible based on nothing. You may as well argue that your psychic friend told you.

More like 99.9% from what I'm reading.

[valade16]

Thats the thing really, there are fantastic teachers that do amazing things to change the lives of their students.

Then there are a plethora of lazy teachers who are jaded as hell, and are just garbage at their job and get away with doing the bare minimum.

My cousin has her Masters from UW. She grew up with 2 heroine addicted parents she took care of. She works at a low income school with kids that have problems at home, like she did growing up.

Every time i see her she pulls out a class photo and tells me stories about each kid. Shes a Saint. She deserves 200k a year.

But she is a ****ing anomaly. Not the norm. For everyone of her, theres 1000 lazy *** teachers doing the absolute bare minimum.

Everyone who is against teachers always talks about the teacher they know that is amazing and the exception. If everyone thinks the teachers they know are the exception because they are awesome, why are you so confident teachers are in general pieces of ****?

[Brewersfan255]

I literally called for better training. I said they should be equally trained in the law as lawyers are and they should have more extensive de-escalation training. Idiot republicans have put cops in a place where they are uneducated about the law they're trying to uphold, given them a gun they're poorly trained to use, and protect them at all costs. This breeds the violent nature of many police. Better training works for both sides. But I know your cult like mindset blocked you from seeing that.

Police stations can’t hire enough cops the way it is because of douchebags like you guys on here who will trash the entire profession

They need more training while the demand for cops is so low..


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