Teacher Salaries

[brett05]

interesting. Anytime this exact same thought process is used by liberals on why the US can't have universal healthcare or stronger gun control, we are told:

1. Move then commie
2. They have like 3 people, can't work here
3. Taxes!!!!!!

to your last paragraph, I struggle with this one. Like you can tell me over and over again the studies around home schooling are that kids don't get hurt socially, or relationship wise. But to me, kids need to be around people their own age for education. I would perhaps listen to a hybrid approach with shared facilities for older kids who can manage at home learning (versus young kids whose parents need to be the quasi teacher while they are also working a full time job), but I struggle with wanting to shift away from on site, physical education for kids.

Ignoring your first part that has no relation to the topic akin to the earlier police discussion, I understand the hesitation with home school. I admit, I waffle on it. I see the kids not getting the social needs then I read how home school kids communicate better with adults. Home schools that I know of in my area are called co-ops where one day a week the kids are together and the rest they work at home. I have my extended family that homeschools three kids. The oldest is socially awkward however is very helpful in a quiet way to adults. The two youngest are social champions even though their interaction with kids their own age is minimal. At the same time, they are oblivious for the most part in helping others in need including simple things like cleaning up after themselves even though both are long past the age where one would not expect a child to do so.

I think most of us can agree that it isn't an easy solution.

[nyyfan555]

I'll skip the sidetrack of other jobs outside of a school

First Bolded) Describe how much one would have to be paid for this to be true.
Second Bolded) Seems it's isn't a dollar issue at all but being bad at how the dollars are spent https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/ind...res-by-country


I think we need to consider where our education ranks. Here's just a quick google search list.
I'm just providing for some context to the dollars link.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

I'll try not to make comparisons anymore. I know that can be difficulty for some to track.

The second link you provided debunks your statement that "it isn't a dollar issue". From your link:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

Ironically, despite the United States having the best-surveyed education system on the globe, U.S students consistently score lower in math and science than students from many other countries. According to a Business Insider report in 2018, the U.S. ranked 38th in math scores and 24th in science. Discussions about why the United States' education rankings have fallen by international standards over the past three decades frequently point out that government spending on education has failed to keep up with inflation.

It's also worthwhile to note that while the Best Countries study is certainly respectable, other studies use different methodologies or emphasize different criteria, which often leads to different results. For example, the Global Citizens for Human Rights' annual study measures ten levels of education from early childhood enrollment rates to adult literacy. Its final 2020 rankings look a bit different:

It most certainly is an issue of dollars. There is no scenario where we can say "oh just stop spending here and move it there". You claimed that principals were paid too much, but that was also debunked.

The bottom line is that we need to invest more in education. That money could easily come from the military budget.

[nyyfan555]

And maybe put ourselves at risk. The links I provided show no cuts elsewhere are needed nor is an increase in educational dollars needed.

The links you provided did not show that. The first link simply stated what was being spent compared to other countries but did not indicate if that spending was sufficient. The second link actually says the opposite: government spending on education has not kept up with inflation.

And not sure what you mean by "put ourselves at risk". We could cut the military budget in half and still be far above everyone else.

[Hawkeye15]

Ignoring your first part that has no relation to the topic akin to the earlier police discussion, I understand the hesitation with home school. I admit, I waffle on it. I see the kids not getting the social needs then I read how home school kids communicate better with adults. Home schools that I know of in my area are called co-ops where one day a week the kids are together and the rest they work at home. I have my extended family that homeschools three kids. The oldest is socially awkward however is very helpful in a quiet way to adults. The two youngest are social champions even though their interaction with kids their own age is minimal. At the same time, they are oblivious for the most part in helping others in need including simple things like cleaning up after themselves even though both are long past the age where one would not expect a child to do so.

I think most of us can agree that it isn't an easy solution.

never easy. For example, some parent(s) could be around their child 24/7. I can't, I would murder them both. I would move 100,000 miles if need be to make sure they are physically in school. Hence why even with a remote job, I live in Minnesota. You have to go out of your way to be in a bad school district in the twin cities.

[Zmaster52]

Figured out that whole Capone thing yet, chief? Here's a free tip in the meantime (unrelated to Capone): it's "wash, rinse, repeat", not "rinse wash repeat".

Ask him if he knows the difference between Arab and Arabic [emoji1787]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brett05]

I'll try not to make comparisons anymore. I know that can be difficulty for some to track.

The second link you provided debunks your statement that "it isn't a dollar issue". From your link:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

Ironically, despite the United States having the best-surveyed education system on the globe, U.S students consistently score lower in math and science than students from many other countries. According to a Business Insider report in 2018, the U.S. ranked 38th in math scores and 24th in science. Discussions about why the United States' education rankings have fallen by international standards over the past three decades frequently point out that government spending on education has failed to keep up with inflation.

It's also worthwhile to note that while the Best Countries study is certainly respectable, other studies use different methodologies or emphasize different criteria, which often leads to different results. For example, the Global Citizens for Human Rights' annual study measures ten levels of education from early childhood enrollment rates to adult literacy. Its final 2020 rankings look a bit different:

It most certainly is an issue of dollars. There is no scenario where we can say "oh just stop spending here and move it there". You claimed that principals were paid too much, but that was also debunked.

The bottom line is that we need to invest more in education. That money could easily come from the military budget.

No, it shows that the dollars that actually make a difference to the kids aren't getting to the kids.

[brett05]

The links you provided did not show that. The first link simply stated what was being spent compared to other countries but did not indicate if that spending was sufficient. The second link actually says the opposite: government spending on education has not kept up with inflation.

And not sure what you mean by "put ourselves at risk". We could cut the military budget in half and still be far above everyone else.

Again going to ignore the comments on cutting dollars elsewhere, the links I gave show we don't use our funding well.

[nyyfan555]

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there are right around 91,000 high school principals in the US.

Listing the "5 highest paid" as if it's any kind of evidence of anything is laughable. Actually looking into the list makes it so much worse.

#1 is Kelly Young, at a place called NorthStar High School in Orlando. Part of the blurb on Brett's link here says this about Young: "According to the local Orlando Sentinel, Young is reported to have been paid more than $500,000 for his job as high school principal..."

There are two problems with this.

First, Kelly Young is a woman.

Second, there is zero mention of a number of things about NorthStar: It was a charter school (was, because it's no longer in operation), Kelly Young was paid more than double the amount this "school" spent on all of it's teachers and staff combined for the 2011-12 school year, the same school also paid her husband more than $450,000 over a five year period (he was also convicted of soliciting prostitution while on duty as an Orange County Sheriff Commander), Kelly had zero education background and was actually a carpet salesperson before all of this, the school's reading teacher was not certified to teach reading, they had no one on staff certified to teach English, and the school did not have computers, a library, or cafeteria services.

NorthStar was pretty clearly a scam disguised as a school. Orange Country Public School officials said they were investigating, but I can't find anything on what happened with that.

A simple search of her name and the name of the school pulls up a bunch on this, though, including from national media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...al-gets-worse/

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...201-story.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chart...more_n_2021140

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politi...00-000/2012/11

Anyway yeah, they're paid EXTREMELY well... in charter schools, which make up the rest of the top three of that list. #4 is a guy with a doctorate who has been in the job for 40 years, according to them, and #5 is a guy who appears to be the superintendent now.

What a list.

Thank you for this. I was going to post something similar. Charter schools are a plague and should never have been allowed to exist. Founders of charter schools often call themselves "principal" and pay themselves large sums. Once they expand, like the KIPP network, they have enormous amounts of administrators that make well more than public school principals.

I worked in a charter school before. I've also worked with colleagues who come from charter networks. They are run like profitable businesses. And they are terrible for kids because they've become test prep factories. Many of them tout how "well" they pay their staff, but they typically have incredibly difficult hours, longer school years, and that's all on top of the unspoken rule of working beyond the hours you're in the building.

brett, that was a terrible example and only further proves that the republican push for charter schools is a terrible thing.

[brett05]

never easy. For example, some parent(s) could be around their child 24/7. I can't, I would murder them both. I would move 100,000 miles if need be to make sure they are physically in school. Hence why even with a remote job, I live in Minnesota. You have to go out of your way to be in a bad school district in the twin cities.

I think parents and kids after the first say 10-14 years needs to have more and more time apart. For the safety of all cause they know things we never knew (ex. I never knew you could make illegal deadly drugs from over the counter stuff.)

[nyyfan555]

No, it shows that the dollars that actually make a difference to the kids aren't getting to the kids.

I can't expect you to understand graphs, tables, and statistics in general. Just know that the link doesn't show what you think it shows.

[nyyfan555]

Again going to ignore the comments on cutting dollars elsewhere, the links I gave show we don't use our funding well.

Ignoring solutions is close minded.

And again, the links you gave did not show that. It would be too difficult for me to teach you statistics via a text based forum, so I can only hope you try your best to understand the information provided in those links.

[brett05]

Ignoring solutions is close minded.

And again, the links you gave did not show that. It would be too difficult for me to teach you statistics via a text based forum, so I can only hope you try your best to understand the information provided in those links.

You cannot solve until you agree upon the problem. If you can't understand dollars per student in one chart and quality of education in the other we won't be productive.

[nyyfan555]

You cannot solve until you agree upon the problem. If you can't understand dollars per student in one chart and quality of education in the other we won't be productive.

You're trying to manufacture a causal relationship between two separate things. One chart is showing that the USA spends more than other countries. A separate chart is showing that our education system sucks. That does not mean that one causes the other. This isn't a mismanagement of money issue. This is a complex issue that involves lack of funding, underpaid and overworked teachers, a hyper focus on standardized testing, interference by culture war warriors from the republican side, parental involvement, etc.

[brett05]

I can't expect you to understand graphs, tables, and statistics in general. Just know that the link doesn't show what you think it shows.

Let me take another look. It is possible I am wrong.

[brett05]

You're trying to manufacture a causal relationship between two separate things. One chart is showing that the USA spends more than other countries. A separate chart is showing that our education system sucks. That does not mean that one causes the other. This isn't a mismanagement of money issue. This is a complex issue that involves lack of funding, underpaid and overworked teachers, a hyper focus on standardized testing, interference by culture war warriors from the republican side, parental involvement, etc.

I reviewed it again. The first chart is dollars per student. The US spends 14,400 per student. The student isn't directly the beneficiary of those dollars which is why I say it's a dollar usage issue. The second link says we have the best education system. If one wants to say that either of these are wrong and show evidence why, that would be fine.