Teacher Salaries

[Hawkeye15]

Are there underpaid teachers? No doubt. Are there over paid teachers? Yes. Are there over paid staff (aka non-teachers)? 100%. My kids would come home for fund raising to get a smart board for the classroom. I would not participate. Poor use of tax dollars shouldn't mean more money coming from residents. If they cut the principal salary by 10% 5-10 classrooms each year could get new smartboards and the principal would still be making $200K

Or we could pull a couple hundred billion from the military budget (don't worry, we would still be outspending the next 6 countries combined), and re-allocate it to education. Is there any reason we should be spending 8 times as much on military as we do on the future of our people?

And the reason there are asks (fundraisers are optional), is because even affluent areas don't receive enough funding to meet the satisfaction needs of the residents. I can assure you, the districts that don't use family donations are those in the biggest trouble...ie inner city and rural.

With that opinion, I am sure you are as pissed as we are that taxpayers have to pay for a rise in salary of Amazon employees for example, instead of Bezos and his cronies (who pay nothing in taxes) doing so with earnings.

[natepro]

Are there underpaid teachers? No doubt. Are there over paid teachers? Yes. Are there over paid staff (aka non-teachers)? 100%. My kids would come home for fund raising to get a smart board for the classroom. I would not participate. Poor use of tax dollars shouldn't mean more money coming from residents. If they cut the principal salary by 10% 5-10 classrooms each year could get new smartboards and the principal would still be making $200K

The median salary for a public school principal in California is $127,969.

https://www.salary.com/research/sala...20%24143%2C614.

In Missouri it's $109,180.

https://www.salary.com/research/sala...ipal-salary/mo

I'm New York it's $134,614.

https://www.salary.com/research/sala...ry/new-york-ny

Granted, I'm not a mathematician, but I'm pretty sure reducing less than $135,000 by 10% does not turn it into over $200,000.

[spliff(TONE)]

Brett math doesn't work like that.

[brett05]

A big reason for the uneven funding is we base how much schools here on property taxes, so the wealthier areas get more funding and the poorer areas less. This is an area I agree with you on.

Exactly. Now we can discuss the pros and cons of property taxes, but the dollars that come from folks for public education should be PUBLIC education dollars. When one uses those public dollars for only the very select, IMO, it becomes it's own "fiefdom" almost like a private school. To me that seems very wrong.

[ewing]

I'm an adult. I have acquaintances. Children have friends. It's not a downgrade. It's a reality.

Hold them accountable for their responsibility to teach the youth of our nation. That's all.

How? Are you going to make a citizen's arrest if mention anything gay?

[ewing]

The median salary for a public school principal in California is $127,969.

https://www.salary.com/research/sala...20%24143%2C614.

In Missouri it's $109,180.

https://www.salary.com/research/sala...ipal-salary/mo

I'm New York it's $134,614.

https://www.salary.com/research/sala...ry/new-york-ny

Granted, I'm not a mathematician, but I'm pretty sure reducing less than $135,000 by 10% does not turn it into over $200,000.

Stop with this endless barrage of facts. It's exhausting.

[ewing]

Has Fingerbang been here to tell everyone about the time he saw a teacher having a drink at a bar when schools were remote for COVID?

[brett05]

There are no overpaid public school teachers. There can definitely be some overpaid administrators, but the topic at hand is teacher salary.

"Poor use of tax dollars shouldn't mean more money coming from residents." --> this concept should also be used when it comes to private businesses. For example, we shouldn't have to pay for a restaurant worker's salary by tipping because the owner doesn't know how to properly manage their revenues or generate significant profit. I actually agree with you about this point. I just think it should apply to all aspects of finances.

However, I would rather allocate more tax dollars to education before cutting salaries from anyone. Right now we have politicians spending millions on frivolous political stunts (ie. abbott sending migrants in buses). That money could have been used to help schools and teachers.

I'll skip the sidetrack of other jobs outside of a school

First Bolded) Describe how much one would have to be paid for this to be true.
Second Bolded) Seems it's isn't a dollar issue at all but being bad at how the dollars are spent https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/ind...res-by-country


I think we need to consider where our education ranks. Here's just a quick google search list.
I'm just providing for some context to the dollars link.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

[brett05]

If we cut the military budget in half we would still be #1 in military spending and we could address education, healthcare, and homelessness.

And maybe put ourselves at risk. The links I provided show no cuts elsewhere are needed nor is an increase in educational dollars needed.

[brett05]

Or we could pull a couple hundred billion from the military budget (don't worry, we would still be outspending the next 6 countries combined), and re-allocate it to education. Is there any reason we should be spending 8 times as much on military as we do on the future of our people?

And the reason there are asks (fundraisers are optional), is because even affluent areas don't receive enough funding to meet the satisfaction needs of the residents. I can assure you, the districts that don't use family donations are those in the biggest trouble...ie inner city and rural.

With that opinion, I am sure you are as pissed as we are that taxpayers have to pay for a rise in salary of Amazon employees for example, instead of Bezos and his cronies (who pay nothing in taxes) doing so with earnings.

Again, as the links I provided, no need to decrease other areas for education. In fact, we need to do a better job at allocating the dollars they do get. How is it that other first world nations spend so much less and still get their populace a great education? That would be a great question.


Just spit balling, but one of the things the pandemic did show us that things that are status quo (ex. working at a physical location with others) isn't always the only way or the most productive. Perhaps, and I am not saying anything more than it's a valid hypothesis, the physical schools aren't as needed as we once thought.

[valade16]

How? Are you going to make a citizen's arrest if mention anything gay?

I don’t know a single person who would say “no” if asked “do you think we should hold teachers and police accountable?” Everyone agrees with that general statement. But that’s an empty platitude. What exactly does “hold them accountable” mean when talking about teachers?

[brett05]

Stop with this endless barrage of facts. It's exhausting.

My bad. Superintendents was what I meant to say. I am wrong about saying it's principals though again, they are paid EXTREMELY well.

https://jobacle.com/blog/5-highest-p...n-america.html

[Hawkeye15]

Again, as the links I provided, no need to decrease other areas for education. In fact, we need to do a better job at allocating the dollars they do get. How is it that other first world nations spend so much less and still get their populace a great education? That would be a great question.


Just spit balling, but one of the things the pandemic did show us that things that are status quo (ex. working at a physical location with others) isn't always the only way or the most productive. Perhaps, and I am not saying anything more than it's a valid hypothesis, the physical schools aren't as needed as we once thought.

interesting. Anytime this exact same thought process is used by liberals on why the US can't have universal healthcare or stronger gun control, we are told:

1. Move then commie
2. They have like 3 people, can't work here
3. Taxes!!!!!!

to your last paragraph, I struggle with this one. Like you can tell me over and over again the studies around home schooling are that kids don't get hurt socially, or relationship wise. But to me, kids need to be around people their own age for education. I would perhaps listen to a hybrid approach with shared facilities for older kids who can manage at home learning (versus young kids whose parents need to be the quasi teacher while they are also working a full time job), but I struggle with wanting to shift away from on site, physical education for kids.

[Hawkeye15]

I don’t know a single person who would say “no” if asked “do you think we should hold teachers and police accountable?” Everyone agrees with that general statement. But that’s an empty platitude. What exactly does “hold them accountable” mean when talking about teachers?

and what is the end result? We don't even have enough teachers to fill the few hundred thousand vacancies we currently have. Is "holding them accountable" mean firing them eventually? How do you wade through enacting accountability in a role that you couldn't backfill if you had to?

I have been in transportation my entire career. The driver shortage is the same. If you want to fire a driver, go ahead, but the fact is, IF you can hire to fill that role, the next person likely won't be any better, and now has no historical knowledge of the position specifically.

[natepro]

My bad. Superintendents was what I meant to say. I am wrong about saying it's principals though again, they are paid EXTREMELY well.

https://jobacle.com/blog/5-highest-p...n-america.html

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there are right around 91,000 high school principals in the US.

Listing the "5 highest paid" as if it's any kind of evidence of anything is laughable. Actually looking into the list makes it so much worse.

#1 is Kelly Young, at a place called NorthStar High School in Orlando. Part of the blurb on Brett's link here says this about Young: "According to the local Orlando Sentinel, Young is reported to have been paid more than $500,000 for his job as high school principal..."

There are two problems with this.

First, Kelly Young is a woman.

Second, there is zero mention of a number of things about NorthStar: It was a charter school (was, because it's no longer in operation), Kelly Young was paid more than double the amount this "school" spent on all of it's teachers and staff combined for the 2011-12 school year, the same school also paid her husband more than $450,000 over a five year period (he was also convicted of soliciting prostitution while on duty as an Orange County Sheriff Commander), Kelly had zero education background and was actually a carpet salesperson before all of this, the school's reading teacher was not certified to teach reading, they had no one on staff certified to teach English, and the school did not have computers, a library, or cafeteria services.

NorthStar was pretty clearly a scam disguised as a school. Orange Country Public School officials said they were investigating, but I can't find anything on what happened with that.

A simple search of her name and the name of the school pulls up a bunch on this, though, including from national media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...al-gets-worse/

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...201-story.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chart...more_n_2021140

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politi...00-000/2012/11

Anyway yeah, they're paid EXTREMELY well... in charter schools, which make up the rest of the top three of that list. #4 is a guy with a doctorate who has been in the job for 40 years, according to them, and #5 is a guy who appears to be the superintendent now.

What a list.