Healthcare

[catman]

We have had many discussions on healthcare on these boards, but here is another side to consider.
How do we retain our healthcare workers? Currently, hospitals are understaffed. Nursing homes are understaffed. There are not enough people choosing to pursue healthcare professions.
How do we attract qualified people to go into healthcare professions?
What is the solution to this problem?

[Bramaca]

Lower outrageous costs of university and increase immigration with a concentration on healthcare workers. Most common sources of nurses and doctors are India, the Philippines, and Middle East.

[catman]

Lower outrageous costs of university and increase immigration with a concentration on healthcare workers. Most common sources of nurses and doctors are India, the Philippines, and Middle East.

I've worked with a lot of people from those areas and have found them to be very competent. I appreciate this thought, as we have thousands of openings for nurses and other associated healthcare workers nationwide.

[metswon69]

You're not bringing people back to nursing homes and group homes. The turnover rate was incredibly high before the pandemic. Its worse now. The vaccine is part of it but the main reasons are the hours and pay. Having done enough 16+ hour shifts in my life, I can tell you most people dont want to do it. A lot of places make you stay when they are short staffed because you can't leave these people alone either. The money isn't good enough to justify it either unless you are a nurse. You lose plenty of holidays, weekends, etc as well if your shifts land on those days.

[catman]

You're not bringing people back to nursing homes and group homes. The turnover rate was incredibly high before the pandemic. Its worse now. The vaccine is part of it but the main reasons are the hours and pay. Having done enough 16+ hour shifts in my life, I can tell you most people dont want to do it. A lot of places make you stay when they are short staffed because you can't leave these people alone either. The money isn't good enough to justify it either unless you are a nurse. You lose plenty of holidays, weekends, etc as well if your shifts land on those days.

Here is something to think about.
REGARDING NURSING: If you have never zipped up body bags on a shift, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never watched a person suffocate to death from their own blood or sputum, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never been punched and kicked for trying to assess your patient, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never had someone beg you to not let them die, or to let them die, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you've never had to look into a loved ones eyes or hold them while they crumble when you tell them of the death of their child, mother, father, sister, aunt, gran, papa... you shouldn't be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never told your family your shift was “fine” to spare them from what you saw that day, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you’ve never felt ribs breaking from doing CPR on someone’s family member, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
For years nurses have been underpaid and undervalued and no one seemed to care.
Now that healthcare is on the brink of a collapse, everyone is concerned.
Nurses are leaving the profession at rapid rates.
Perhaps it’s from the years of getting 1% raises and barely being able to pay bills. Maybe it’s because nurses are asked to do more and more with less. Maybe it’s from the terrible staffing ratios. The reasons are honestly endless.
Let’s start caring about nurse retention, nurse training, fair wages, safe staffing, etc.
Let’s not get to the point where you need a nurse and there isn’t one to spare.

Edit:
I'm well aware of working 16+ hour shifts. In Iowa, it is illegal for healthcare workers to stay on the clock for over 18 hours at a time. I've come very close to working more than that limit many times in my career. I have probably worked over 18 hours more than once. You are right about being mandated. For a healthcare worker to leave without being properly relieved is considered abandonment and is subject to discipline, up to and including loss of professional license. That is up to the Iowa Board of Nursing to determine.

[metswon69]

Here is something to think about.
REGARDING NURSING: If you have never zipped up body bags on a shift, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never watched a person suffocate to death from their own blood or sputum, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never been punched and kicked for trying to assess your patient, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never had someone beg you to not let them die, or to let them die, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you've never had to look into a loved ones eyes or hold them while they crumble when you tell them of the death of their child, mother, father, sister, aunt, gran, papa... you shouldn't be deciding how much nurses make.
If you have never told your family your shift was “fine” to spare them from what you saw that day, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
If you’ve never felt ribs breaking from doing CPR on someone’s family member, you shouldn’t be deciding how much nurses make.
For years nurses have been underpaid and undervalued and no one seemed to care.
Now that healthcare is on the brink of a collapse, everyone is concerned.
Nurses are leaving the profession at rapid rates.
Perhaps it’s from the years of getting 1% raises and barely being able to pay bills. Maybe it’s because nurses are asked to do more and more with less. Maybe it’s from the terrible staffing ratios. The reasons are honestly endless.
Let’s start caring about nurse retention, nurse training, fair wages, safe staffing, etc.
Let’s not get to the point where you need a nurse and there isn’t one to spare.

All these facilities have budgets. That said, nurses know what they sign up for and also know they'll be compensated well for it. Are they asked to take on added responsibilities and are there are more protocols that bring in additional stress than there was even 10, 5 or 2 years ago? Yes but I know places in the city and Long Island that are paying nurses 125 bucks or more an hour. Guess what? Those shifts are gobbled up.

Financial incentive goes a long way.

There are plenty of hospital, group home, nursing home, HHA, workers etc that make 1/8th of that pay and they're asking them to take on certain nurse's responsibilities (like administering medications) along with taking care of these people's every need. And on top of that are asked to work ridiculously long hours, sacrifice weekends, holidays, etc.

I know staffing is an issue among nurses, doctors, etc but the real issue is the people who are asked to do the grunt work. Those people are becoming harder and harder to replace because there isn't the same ceiling or incentive to work.

[catman]

All these facilities have budgets. That said, nurses know what they sign up for and also know they'll be compensated well for it. Are they asked to take on added responsibilities and are there are more protocols that bring in additional stress? Yes but I know places in the city and Long Island that are paying nurses 125 bucks or more an hour. Guess what? Those shifts are gobbled up.

Financial incentive goes a long way.

That said, there are plenty of hospital, group, nursing home, HHA, workers etc that make 1/8th of that pay and they're asking them to take on certain nurse's responsibilities (like administering medications) along with taking care of these people's every need. And on top of that see are asked to work ridiculous hours, weekends, holidays, etc.

Of course financial incentive helps get people to become nurses. Wages around here have increased dramatically, and we have a few more people sticking around. There are a lot of "travel-nurses" that are brought in to cover shifts. They do an adequate job, but the residents are far more comfortable with familiar faces. Some of them have rather fragile psyches that require proper handling. Behavior problems are always worse with unfamiliar staff members.
As to asking non-certified staffers to pass medications, that is illegal in most states. In Iowa, a facility can have their license revoked for doing things like that. I'm sure other states have similar laws.

[metswon69]

Of course financial incentive helps get people to become nurses. Wages around here have increased dramatically, and we have a few more people sticking around. There are a lot of "travel-nurses" that are brought in to cover shifts. They do an adequate job, but the residents are far more comfortable with familiar faces. Some of them have rather fragile psyches that require proper handling. Behavior problems are always worse with unfamiliar staff members.
As to asking non-certified staffers to pass medications, that is illegal in most states. In Iowa, a facility can have their license revoked for doing things like that. I'm sure other states have similar laws.

You can be what they call AMAPed in NY, NJ, CT, etc. That allows nursing home workers, group home workers, HHA, etc to administer medications. Its not a responsibility most people want, however. You can even give out controlled substances as long as they are counted every shift. I know firsthand.

Yeah, a lot of it comes down to money. It's not going to fix everything because COVID made things more complicated but it does go a significant way. I know you're speaking as a nurse but I know a lot of nurses who complain they have additional responsibilities because they don't have medical assistants, nursing assistants, orderlies, etc anymore. Its not because these places aren't looking to hire them either.

Taking care of human beings is tough. Yes, doctors, nurses are the most important pieces to the puzzle but what's the incentive making 35 grand a year breaking your *** for people who most of the time don't appreciate it?

[Bramaca]

All these facilities have budgets. That said, nurses know what they sign up for and also know they'll be compensated well for it. Are they asked to take on added responsibilities and are there are more protocols that bring in additional stress than there was even 10, 5 or 2 years ago? Yes but I know places in the city and Long Island that are paying nurses 125 bucks or more an hour. Guess what? Those shifts are gobbled up.

Financial incentive goes a long way.

There are plenty of hospital, group home, nursing home, HHA, workers etc that make 1/8th of that pay and they're asking them to take on certain nurse's responsibilities (like administering medications) along with taking care of these people's every need. And on top of that are asked to work ridiculously long hours, sacrifice weekends, holidays, etc.

I know staffing is an issue among nurses, doctors, etc but the real issue is the people who are asked to do the grunt work. Those people are becoming harder and harder to replace because there isn't the same ceiling or incentive to work.

Financial incentive is nice and helpful but there’s a limit to how high that can go. You talk about places in the city (assuming NY) and on Long Island. Those places are better equipped to handle higher budgets and paying people $125 an hour. Where do you think they’re pulling in those employees from though? They will come from smaller centres, rural communities, etc where they can’t afford that and have a significantly harder time recruiting and replacing those lost workers.

[metswon69]

Financial incentive is nice and helpful but there’s a limit to how high that can go. You talk about places in the city (assuming NY) and on Long Island. Those places are better equipped to handle higher budgets and paying people $125 an hour. Where do you think they’re pulling in those employees from though? They will come from smaller centres, rural communities, etc where they can’t afford that and have a significantly harder time recruiting and replacing those lost workers.

True but that's why there needs to be systemic changes in healthcare. You can make the same money flipping burgers in some of these places than you can taking care of human beings. What's the incentive there? When I was doing it, they were paying direct care nursing home workers, group home workers, CNAs, and HHA 8- 10 bucks an hour. That was over 15 years ago. The pay now isn't much better. A lot of places start at 15-18 bucks an hour and that's only because NY's minimum wage law that requires people being paid at least 15 bucks an hour. The only way you make ends meet is consistently picking up significant overtime.

I know what Catman is trying to get at. Yes, nursing shortages are an issue but you will find nurses far more regularly because the financial incentive is there. Its not city pay but they can still make 300 or 400 bucks a day taking an 8 hour shift. I had a group home manager who used to put in 90 hours a week on a salaried position and it was common practice to ask them to also do direct care work for people who didn't show up to shifts or when they short staffed. That was far more common practice than you would think btw.

[metswon69]

You probably deal with more gaslighting, abuse, etc in the medical field than you do anywhere else. Bosses, patients, coworkers. You're swallowing **** constantly. People also don't want to be married to their work and those jobs regularly ask you to work 60-80 hour work weeks where you don't know when you're going home.

[catman]

You probably deal with more gaslighting, abuse, etc in the medical field than you do anywhere else. Bosses, patients, coworkers. You're swallowing **** constantly. People also don't want to be married to their work and those jobs regularly ask you to work 60-80 hour work weeks where you don't know when you're going home.

You're right about this. The people that frequently have it the worst are salaried people that are required to fill shifts when no one else is available. In nursing homes, frequently the salaried staff (MDS coordinator, DON, ADON and sometimes other nurses) are on-call to handle situations like this. They may get a bonus for working the shift, but they won't get 1/5th of their weekly salary as the bonus.

[catman]

Time to move a bunch of off topic posts.

[Kenny Powders]

Will you be cleaning up off topic material in all threads or just yours?

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[catman]

I will clean up spam as needed. If your posts disappear, that is why.
And, by the way, stay on topic.
The topic here is Healthcare. What do you think we should do to retain healthcare workers from top to bottom?