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  1. #241
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    Just a little throw back but Durant silly butt went to GSW the defending champs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULGYvLb3nF0

  2. #242
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    https://sportsbrief.com/facts/top-li...in%20the%20NBA.

    Who has the most ISO plays in the NBA? Who has the most ISO points in the NBA? Undoubtedly, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had the most career points (38,887) and the most points scored in isolation per possession (15621.2 possessions). Currently, Harden ranks higher than Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Kevin Durant, and Giannis Antetokuonmpo with the most isolation plays in the NBA. Read more: https://sportsbrief.com/facts/top-li...nba-currently/
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-30-2022 at 08:41 PM.

  3. #243
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob0h5Egz9lw

    breaking down Magic, key at the end of this vid just like any other ball dominant player. Magic wont fit well with another on ball star ( ball dominant player)

    "John Stockton and Magic Johnson take up 10/12 highest APG seasons in NBA history yet none are in the top 250 seasons for usage rating. Obviously they had to have the ball in their hands alot to make the right passes, and decide when and where to pass. But that does not translate to usage rating. It does translate to ball dominance. Players like Harden, Russ, Luka, Chris Paul etc. often have the ball in their hands for 10+ minutes of a game which makes them ball dominant players."

    OK i done .. Not enough evidence to back the claim Lebron is the only only to win as a player who dominated the ball other than i dont understand.
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-30-2022 at 10:18 PM.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    lol...that is called deflect... i am surprise no one did not bring up Randle out of no where. I do got to give you props however for trying to go 12 rounds. Most would have already give up when their beliefs gets challenged.
    My beliefs were not challenged by you. Most of what you posted was tangential gibberish.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    My beliefs were not challenged by you. Most of what you posted was tangential gibberish.
    Yes it was but thats what i was trying to say.. Ball dominant gibberish. Besides it was not a shot at you..lol was taking about people bringing up Randle out of no where.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-01-2022 at 12:05 AM.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    maybe its best you watch vs me saying it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2YX3fl1jkk
    Thanks for showing (once again) that you don't understand what is being said lol

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob0h5Egz9lw

    breaking down Magic, key at the end of this vid just like any other ball dominant player. Magic wont fit well with another on ball star ( ball dominant player)

    "John Stockton and Magic Johnson take up 10/12 highest APG seasons in NBA history yet none are in the top 250 seasons for usage rating. Obviously they had to have the ball in their hands alot to make the right passes, and decide when and where to pass. But that does not translate to usage rating. It does translate to ball dominance. Players like Harden, Russ, Luka, Chris Paul etc. often have the ball in their hands for 10+ minutes of a game which makes them ball dominant players."

    OK i done .. Not enough evidence to back the claim Lebron is the only only to win as a player who dominated the ball other than i dont understand.
    What a laughable take lol...you were done a loooooong time ago (the fact that you don't realize the massive differences in how those assists are occurring says it all (there is a clear and quantifiable difference and you don't see it)...we definitely agree...YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. Glad we could clear that up (everyone knew that you didnt understand about 10 pages ago)
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-01-2022 at 01:44 AM.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    What a laughable take lol...you were done a loooooong time ago (the fact that you don't realize the massive differences in how those assists are occurring says it all (there is a clear and quantifiable difference and you don't see it)...we definitely agree...YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. Glad we could clear that up (everyone knew that you didnt understand about 10 pages ago)
    Dang bro you cant see bias if it hit you in the face with two solid bricks glued to a bowling ball.

    What system did Pat ran? other than keep repeating the same thing. Why did Lakers went from posting Kareem to a faster pace? Why did the pace slow down as he got older with more walk it up and him directing from the low post area? Dude Lebron is way more athletic than Magic was and magic was a better passer so by no means saying they are the same but how they played reading the floor is very similar. They are the ones playing point. Which time and time they have the ball in their hands with the time clicking. Not every play is a fast break or slick pass.

    Remove Curry Klay off GSW will the system win 4 titles with Westbrook and Derozan? its really not rocket science. Why would one run a 7 or less pace when they got Shaq. What team do not form around their talent?

    Why did kobe say he would want to play with Lebron? aint that because he know he can get the Ball? Why did Lebron get critique in the finals aint it for not being ball dominant enough? Its nuts to think that Lebron is the only star that plays like that and won. Its well known Stars play hero ball time and time again down to the very clutch and game winning shot. But they are not really on ball players since they have the skills to play off the ball. SG Hint they are not point guards.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-01-2022 at 10:11 AM.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Dang bro you cant see bias if it hit you in the face with two solid bricks glued to a bowling ball.

    What system did Pat run? other than keep repeating the same thing. Why did Lakers went from posting Kareem to a faster pace? Why did the pace slow down as he got older with more walk it up and him directing from the low post area? Dude Lebron is way more athletic than Magic was and magic was a better passer so by no means saying they are the same but how they played reading the floor is very similar. They are the ones playing point. Which time and time they have the ball in their hands with the time clicking. Not every play is a fast break or slick pass.

    Remove Curry Klay off GSW will the system win 4 titles with Westbrook and Derozan? its really not rocket science. Why would one run a 7 or less pace when they got Shaq. What team do not form around their talent?

    Why did kobe say he would want to play with Lebron? aint that because he know he can get the Ball? Why did Lebron get critique in the finals aint it for not being ball dominant enough? Its nuts to think that Lebron is the only star that plays like that and won. Its well known Stars play hero ball time and time again down to the very clutch and game winning shot. But they are not really on ball players since they have the skills to play off the ball. SG Hint they are not point guards.
    You really don't get it. Players didn't hold the ball in their hands for too long before. That wasn't really a thing. It didn't start to become a thing until the mid-late 90s. I've actually watched a lot of games from the 80s and watched almost all of the laker games in the 90s. I'm not relying on YouTube clips. You simply don't get it. Playmaking wasnt usually a guy dribbling around until they made something happen. They usually made something happen within a few seconds of getting the ball or would pass it up (all one has to do is watch an old game to see the difference). This is what you don't get. There's literal articles that have been written about LBJ's weakness being a lack of ball movement on the teams he's been on and how this differs from all other great players and it's been quantified (which shouldn't surprise anyone because you can't move the ball too much if you have it in your hands). Other great players who won simply didn't play like that. It was something that became a thing with the pgs towards the end of the 90s and then LBJ took it to another level in terms of ball dominance. Harden took it to another level beyond that. You're literally arguing a point that has been shown to be false (a point that no one agrees with you on and that you invited yourself to be a part of). This isn't a debate, this is someone arguing that they don't agree 2 + 2 = 4 because they don't see how it could. Your inability to comprehend does not impact the validity of a verifiable point and it is not our job to help you understand. You don't get it, end of story.

    Continuing to respond and repeat the same thing also doesn't gain you points: it makes you look like a doofus.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-01-2022 at 09:58 AM.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You really don't get it. Players didn't hold the ball in their hands for too long before. That wasn't really a thing. It didn't start to become a thing until the mid-late 90s. I've actually watched a lot of games from the 80s and watched almost all of the laker games in the 90s. I'm not relying on YouTube clips. You simply don't get it. Playmaking wasnt usually a guy dribbling around until they made something happen. They usually made something happen within a few seconds of getting the ball or would pass it up (all one has to do is watch an old game to see the difference). This is what you don't get. There's literal articles that have been written about LBJ's weakness being a lack of ball movement on the teams he's been on and how this differs from all other great players and it's been quantified (which shouldn't surprise anyone because you can't move the ball too much if you have it in your hands). Other great players who won simply didn't play like that. It was something that became a thing with the pgs towards the end of the 90s and then LBJ took it to another level in terms of ball dominance. Harden took it to another level beyond that. You're literally arguing a point that has been shown to be false (a point that no one agrees with you on and that you invited yourself to be a part of). This isn't a debate, this is someone arguing that they don't agree 2 + 2 = 4 because they don't see how it could. Your inability to comprehend does not impact the validity of a verifiable point and it is not our job to help you understand. You don't get it, end of story.

    Continuing to respond and repeat the same thing also doesn't gain you points: it makes you look like a doofus.
    So Lebron is the only player that hold the ball long its a simple yes and no.

    Why was a shot clock placed? why was the time getting to half court reduce? is it because it was flying up court at blistering speed?
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-01-2022 at 10:20 AM.

  11. #251
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    Fact is your going to find the players creating with more time on the ball. Magic had more time on the ball than any other player on his team. His time on the ball will be higher than say. MJ. It have times he will push the pace, Its have times he will walk the ball up, it have times it will have plays design for other stars or players on the floor it will also have plays the coach and his staff design. it can be called the square..


    You still have not told me the offense Pat ran. so i wont have to guess what it is since your saying 2+2=4 so i can understand.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-01-2022 at 10:39 AM.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    So Lebron is the only player that hold the ball long its a simple yes and no.

    Why was a shot clock placed? why was the time getting to half court reduce? is it because it was flying up court at blistering speed?
    Who said that he was the only player to hold the ball for a long time??? He is the only player to win at a high level, while also being highly ball dominant. Since the late 90s, there have been lots and lots of players who dominate the ball and there are currently several in the league now, but LBJ to date, is the only one to be able to win at a high level playing like that. the entire point was that ball dominant players don't usually win at a high level (with the exception of LBJ) and this was made in reference to Westbrook and Morant.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Fact is your going to find the players creating with more time on the ball. Magic had more time on the ball than any other player on his team. His time on the ball will be higher than say. MJ. It have times he will push the pace, Its have times he will walk the ball up, it have times it will have plays design for other stars or players on the floor it will also have plays the coach and his staff design. it can be called the square..


    You still have not told me the offense Pat ran. so i wont have to guess what it is since your saying 2+2=4 so i can understand.
    AGAIN...there is a difference between having the ball more in your hands and being super ball dominant. The showtime lakers generally played inside-out in the half court, running things through Kareem in the low block. There were far more nuances to it than this, but the inside-out offensive scheme was fairly common when a team had good post players. With an offense, there are usually plays that are called and it's not free flowing in the same way as more recent basketball where a guy usually gets the ball and creates on the fly. The used to be the primary job of the pg and why they have been referred to as the quarterback, they usually called the plays, almost every time down. The coach also would often call the plays and then the pg would instantiate it. It was a lot more like football in that regard. There's still plays that get called but its a lot more on the fly in today's NBA with a lot more focus on star players dominating the ball. That simply wasnt the case before. It happened, but not nearly as much.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Who said that he was the only player to hold the ball for a long time??? He is the only player to win at a high level, while also being highly ball dominant. Since the late 90s, there have been lots and lots of players who dominate the ball and there are currently several in the league now, but LBJ to date, is the only one to be able to win at a high level playing like that. the entire point was that ball dominant players don't usually win at a high level (with the exception of LBJ) and this was made in reference to Westbrook and Morant.
    And i list a number of players that are at thier best with the ball and some of which have won titles. To which you are saying they are not. How do these players play, how do they get thier points. off the ball in catch and shoot? Dribble penetration? 3 pointers? dunks? Your saying Lebron is the offense and he holds the ball on avg too long which hurt the other players. ......Why was Pippen mad or envy MJ? Why Kobe and Shaq fight over the ball? these are effects of players who dominate the ball. These players can be placed in a system where they are forced to pass the ball but its not their natural instinct..so place Lebron in those system or situation your looking at the same things. Hint why its not Ideal to play two ball dominant players together. its going to be counterproductive. You think Phill did not get grey hairs coaching Kobe? It dont have a shot he did not like. Magic was a ball dominant player base on how he played. What you can say is if thats what you want Lebron is most ball dominant player to win rings. But to say the only is not true. He came off the ball plenty times.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-01-2022 at 10:57 AM.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    And i list a number of players that are at thier best with the ball and some of which have won titles. To which you are saying they are not. How do these players play, how do they get thier points. off the ball in catch and shoot? Dribble penetration? 3 pointers? dunks? Your saying Lebron is the offense and he holds the ball on avg too long which hurt the other players. ......Why was Pippen mad or envy MJ? Why Kobe and Shaq fight over the ball? these are effects of players who dominate the ball. These players can be placed in a system where they are forced to pass the ball but its not their natural instinct..so place Lebron in those system or situation your looking at the same things. Hint why its not Ideal to play two ball dominant players together. its going to be counterproductive. You think Phill did not get grey hairs coaching Kobe? It dont have a shot he did not like. Magic was a ball dominant player base on how he played. What you can say is if thats what you want Lebron is most ball dominant player to win rings. But to say the only is not true. He came off the ball plenty times.
    Dude, for the last time. It's not about having the ball in your hands. It's about being super ball dominant. There is obviously a tradeoff between putting the ball in your best players' hands and having them dominate the ball to the point where they kill any offensive flow. Magic was absolutely not a ball dominant player (go back and watch any random game from magic). Kobe and MJ were ball dominant at times, but they played within a triangle offense and they were not completely monopolizing the ball. The game wasnt really played like that when these guys were in the league. The most ball dominant Kobe probably was, were the 06, 07, and 13 seasons. These guys would get the ball and attack quickly, usually within a few seconds. Dribbling around a ton was typically strongly discouraged up until maybe 15-17 years ago or so when it started to become more commonplace. There were guys who would dominate the ball in the post (like Barkley, but then they put in the 5 second rule to get rid of that...but even then the post players who won at the highest level weren't playing like that usually).
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-01-2022 at 11:11 AM.

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