Game18 The indeed improved Lakers @ None existent Spurs 11/26/22 at 5:00 pm

[Iron24th]

There is belief shared by leaders in the Lakers’ locker room, sources said, that the team is only a couple of players away from turning this group into a legitimate contender. But acquiring the right players could take multiple trades. – via Dave McMenamin @ ESPN

The Lakers decided that giving up both their 2027 and 2029 first-round picks — the only future first-round assets they have in their draft chest — was too steep a price to pay for a haul that wouldn’t indisputably propel them to contender status, sources said. Plus the Lakers reasoned, sources said, the same deal with the Pacers would still be there down the line should they reengage. With the Lakers (7-11) and Pacers (11-8) set to meet Monday (10:30 p.m. ET), here are five questions to answer as L.A. considers whether to deal or not to deal. – via Dave McMenamin @ ESPN

Where things stand now is an adjusted timeline for L.A. The Lakers expect more teams will be willing to engage them in trade talks after Dec. 15, when contracts that were signed in the summer are eligible to be moved, sources said. But even with more possibilities opening up, league business slows around the holidays, so the odds of any action before mid-January are remote. – via Dave McMenamin @ ESPN

[WhiteShadow42]

I approve this post.

Lullz

[WhiteShadow42]

Breaking news this just in AD is better at the 5. Where have you been. The only reason you get a center is for health issues. Key why i said if Lakers give up picks and the main return is a center it may not work and the player may leave as a free agent. Hint why Turner may be a better option that Poetl. Turner to has the same iffy shot but it should be ok to draw his man out and take turns at center. Portl may end up being used like Mcgee and he may not like that. Maybe he might i dint know. But if your going to give up picks you have to be certain they will resign or you will be in a worst situation than you are today in a few months. If they were under contract could always trade. Thats another reason i said a guard might be the best bet since they dont play the same position.

This is by no means saying its impossible it just comes with very high risk. One can say inconsistent playing both side the fence or what ever nothing is set in stone. That is why you need options. iIf one dont work you go to the other.

You have to keep in mind that AD has finally bought into playing the 5. Whether he is better there or the 4 was up to him. He had to bulk up and have more of a bruiser mentality. And he has shown that he is stronger and can play much more physical. Also why trade you future first for another five? As a backup if AD gets hurt? We are in desperate need of length in the 3 spot. That should be the main goal if it’s possible.

[WhiteShadow42]

Neither Kidd nor Nash were ball dominant players and they never won a title as stars. Magic was absolutely not a ball dominant player, which is what makes his play making ability all the more impressive (putting up a ton of assists while dominating the ball a ton is not all that different than scoring a lot while taking a ton of shots). Kobe was also not a ball dominant player. He played within the offense and could become ball dominant, but the offense wasn't him dribbling around until he did something (e.g., pass or shoot). Ditto for MJ. Wilt and Shaq were absolutely not ball dominant players (difficult to be ball dominant as a center). Wade was more ball dominant than these guys, but he never won during his most ball dominant phase of his career. When he was playing alongside Shaq, there was an inside-out emphasis and an actual offense that was still being run. When Wade teamed up with LBJ, Wade was no longer able to play that style. Kyrie wasn't really able to be a super ball dominant player alongside LBJ and he has never done anything since. With Kyrie at his most ball dominant, his teams haven't been very good and have often been better without him (e.g., Boston).

A.I. fits the bill, but he never led his team to a title. Harden is the perfect example of a ball dominant player and also the perfect example of how laughably ineffective that style of play is when games matter (obviously he's never won anything and likely never will as a star, because he stopped being a star a while ago). So yeah, LBJ is really the only clear example.

[IKnowHoops]

Neither Kidd nor Nash were ball dominant players and they never won a title as stars. Magic was absolutely not a ball dominant player, which is what makes his play making ability all the more impressive (putting up a ton of assists while dominating the ball a ton is not all that different than scoring a lot while taking a ton of shots). Kobe was also not a ball dominant player. He played within the offense and could become ball dominant, but the offense wasn't him dribbling around until he did something (e.g., pass or shoot). Ditto for MJ. Wilt and Shaq were absolutely not ball dominant players (difficult to be ball dominant as a center). Wade was more ball dominant than these guys, but he never won during his most ball dominant phase of his career. When he was playing alongside Shaq, there was an inside-out emphasis and an actual offense that was still being run. When Wade teamed up with LBJ, Wade was no longer able to play that style. Kyrie wasn't really able to be a super ball dominant player alongside LBJ and he has never done anything since. With Kyrie at his most ball dominant, his teams haven't been very good and have often been better without him (e.g., Boston).

A.I. fits the bill, but he never led his team to a title. Harden is the perfect example of a ball dominant player and also the perfect example of how laughably ineffective that style of play is when games matter (obviously he's never won anything and likely never will as a star, because he stopped being a star a while ago). So yeah, LBJ is really the only clear example.

My question to you would be…what is the difference between high Usage% and high ball dominance?

[ldawg]

Neither Kidd nor Nash were ball dominant players and they never won a title as stars. Magic was absolutely not a ball dominant player, which is what makes his play making ability all the more impressive (putting up a ton of assists while dominating the ball a ton is not all that different than scoring a lot while taking a ton of shots). Kobe was also not a ball dominant player. He played within the offense and could become ball dominant, but the offense wasn't him dribbling around until he did something (e.g., pass or shoot). Ditto for MJ. Wilt and Shaq were absolutely not ball dominant players (difficult to be ball dominant as a center). Wade was more ball dominant than these guys, but he never won during his most ball dominant phase of his career. When he was playing alongside Shaq, there was an inside-out emphasis and an actual offense that was still being run. When Wade teamed up with LBJ, Wade was no longer able to play that style. Kyrie wasn't really able to be a super ball dominant player alongside LBJ and he has never done anything since. With Kyrie at his most ball dominant, his teams haven't been very good and have often been better without him (e.g., Boston).

A.I. fits the bill, but he never led his team to a title. Harden is the perfect example of a ball dominant player and also the perfect example of how laughably ineffective that style of play is when games matter (obviously he's never won anything and likely never will as a star, because he stopped being a star a while ago). So yeah, LBJ is really the only clear example.

Not being as ball dominat as another dont mean your not ball dominat. All the players i list the offence of thier team revolved heavily on them and most of them scoring and playmaking. Yes kobe, mj and shaq played in the triangle but they were the ones with the ball majority of the time and the triangle was Taylor for them. Moments there were also high on iso plays. As for kidd, Nash, magic, Ai etc they pretty much ran the show just as lebron did. Not much different. These player did not play in a equal Opportunity system as Spurs or Pistons. So to say lebron is the only ball dominant player to win on the highest level i dont feel is true. Lebron size and skills is what made him able to play like that. He is not MJ or Majic but he is a little of both.

Curry is the only pg his size to win titles without an allstar big man. Before it was done the talk was you cant win with a player who shoot to many 3s because they are lower perentage shot and you can not win like that. This is an example of saying you cant win like that on the highest level and only curry can won like that.

You really cannot say you cant win with a certain style when they all produce titles. Lebron 4, curry 4, kobe 5, mj 6, duncan 5, wade 3.

I can also flip that less ball dominant stars dont win on the highest level. If you looking at players who dominated.

[ldawg]

You have to keep in mind that AD has finally bought into playing the 5. Whether he is better there or the 4 was up to him. He had to bulk up and have more of a bruiser mentality. And he has shown that he is stronger and can play much more physical. Also why trade you future first for another five? As a backup if AD gets hurt? We are in desperate need of length in the 3 spot. That should be the main goal if it’s possible.

All in his head and the injures. Noel, chandler, pau, duncan, even bosh, rasheed, j oneal, dramond etc. The only reason i put centers there is his reluctance and his history of injury but in the era thats where he plays best. Mcgee and howard played the season while he moved to that position majority of the playoffs moving the mcgee out the rotation.

[Scoots]

My question to you would be…what is the difference between high Usage% and high ball dominance?

usage % is how many plays END with the ball in your hand. Ball dominance is how many seconds of the team's total game possessions the ball is under the control of one player. Embiid's usage% this year is 37.9% and Harden's is 26.2%, but nobody reasonable would say Embiid is more ball dominant than Harden. Curry's usage% is 31% and Draymond's is 12% but Draymond has the ball more than Curry does and nobody reasonable would say Curry dominates the ball with the Warriors considering so much of his scoring comes from movement without the ball.

[Scoots]

Not being as ball dominat as another dont mean your not ball dominat. All the players i list the offence of thier team revolved heavily on them and most of them scoring and playmaking. Yes kobe, mj and shaq played in the triangle but they were the ones with the ball majority of the time and the triangle was Taylor for them. Moments there were also high on iso plays. As for kidd, Nash, magic, Ai etc they pretty much ran the show just as lebron did. Not much different. These player did not play in a equal Opportunity system as Spurs or Pistons. So to say lebron is the only ball dominant player to win on the highest level i dont feel is true. Lebron size and skills is what made him able to play like that. He is not MJ or Majic but he is a little of both.

Curry is the only pg his size to win titles without an allstar big man. Before it was done the talk was you cant win with a player who shoot to many 3s because they are lower perentage shot and you can not win like that. This is an example of saying you cant win like that on the highest level and only curry can won like that.

You really cannot say you cant win with a certain style when they all produce titles. Lebron 4, curry 4, kobe 5, mj 6, duncan 5, wade 3.

I can also flip that less ball dominant stars dont win on the highest level. If you looking at players who dominated.

The conversation is about ball dominant players who won a title ... no need to talk about ball dominant players who DIDN'T WIN A RING, as they are proof of nothing in this conversation.

See my earlier definition of ball dominance to get other answers.

[ldawg]

The conversation is about ball dominant players who won a title ... no need to talk about ball dominant players who DIDN'T WIN A RING, as they are proof of nothing in this conversation.

See my earlier definition of ball dominance to get other answers.

I understand this. Players create for their team so its natural for them to have the ball more who dont or do not have the needed skills to do so. In many cases they bring the ball up the court. Where as a player like MJ Kobe on the plays with no fast break they let the PG bring the ball up but as soon as it gets up court the ball is going to them. In many cases they would be reduce to screeners catch and shoot players. So its actually kind of silly in some cases.

[Scoots]

I understand this. Players create for their team so its natural for them to have the ball more who dont or do not have the needed skills to do so. In many cases they bring the ball up the court. Where as a player like MJ Kobe on the plays with no fast break they let the PG bring the ball up but as soon as it gets up court the ball is going to them. In many cases they would be reduce to screeners catch and shoot players. So its actually kind of silly in some cases.

I read that 3 times and I don't know what point you are trying to make.

[WhiteShadow42]

My question to you would be…what is the difference between high Usage% and high ball dominance?

Well if a girl is stroking me all night, then it’s high usage. If she is playing with my nuts all night, then it’s ball dominance.

Get-ur-done

[ldawg]

I read that 3 times and I don't know what point you are trying to make.

Point is all players do not have the same skill set and they play different roles for their team. Why would a center have the ball more than the PG? Lebron skill allow him to direct Kobe skills did not since he was more incline to score. So it would make sense Lebron to have the ball more. In that aspect its silly.

[WhiteShadow42]

All in his head and the injures. Noel, chandler, pau, duncan, even bosh, rasheed, j oneal, dramond etc. The only reason i put centers there is his reluctance and his history of injury but in the era thats where he plays best. Mcgee and howard played the season while he moved to that position majority of the playoffs moving the mcgee out the rotation.

If you payed attention this year is that he is bulkier and stronger this year. He bullies people. Handled Jokic pretty well. He used to get pushed around by him. Also he has no outside shot so by default he should play the 5. Also his free throw percentage is up and if you play inside more than the perimeter then you get more free throw attempts, like he is getting. He isn’t chasing guys on the perimeter anymore so he doesn’t use as much energy on defense. He uses his best asset. His shot blocking ability and his quickness. Why he got five blocks and five steals in a game recently. He made Poetl look like a scrub. If our team was top two in the West, they would be talking about MVP candidate.

[WhiteShadow42]

I read that 3 times and I don't know what point you are trying to make.

Don’t worry, he doesn’t either.