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  1. #76
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    That's basically all just Passan's conjecture we've already been discussing (along with old quotes).
    Last edited by spliff(TONE); 12-01-2022 at 07:20 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Is it at all possible Judge sees a team full of rookies with limited experience as a potential hindrance to a ring any time soon? The "move on from certain players" cuts both ways. I realize Torres and JD are the targets.
    Doc, I don't think that is it at all. CC on his podcast was talking about who little difference there is from AA to the MLB the last 7-8yrs. He said that the veterans want those top specs on the roster, especially when they have torn up AA.

    As of right now the only rookie in their plans is Peraza and they would really like it if Volpe could be ready by ST. That said, unless Volpe just balls out in ST, he likely won't be up until May due to the service time. Cabrera is going to be a utility player that plays alot, but is unlikely to be a everyday starter

    If Judge goes to SF he's even more in that building mode with young players. The Giants have to construct a roster that going to be able to beat the Dodgers and Padres. It would be extremely tough and very expensive for them to try to do it in one yr.
    NYYNEW-TV Prospect Analyst

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    On the record:

    New York Daily News
    @NYDailyNews

    Official
    Yankees have an offer to Judge that is around 8 years and $300M. It would make him the highest-paid position player in the history of baseball in terms of average annual value.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...q6u-story.html
    I also wonder if this leak drives judge to SF. Or is it just speculation? If it's not the offer and just a guess, no biggie but if this is the offer? Pretty F'd up that they let it get out.
    Now if Judge leaked it, Pretty friggin smart.



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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Is it at all possible Judge sees a team full of rookies with limited experience as a potential hindrance to a ring any time soon? The "move on from certain players" cuts both ways. I realize Torres and JD are the targets.
    Doc, what "team full of rookies" do you mean? Rizzo, Stanton, Bader, Trevino, JD, DJ are all well tenured players. The entire pitching staff will be vets. The only rookies we are truly discussing to me, are Peraza, Cabrera and possibly Volpe. The only way Volpe is there is if Torres is traded and that should only be for a high quality pitcher or player. The Yankees should get an LF. I don't want Cabrera playing there full time.

    Bader
    Judge
    RIzzo
    Stanton
    DJ
    Torres or Cabrera/Volpe
    Trevino
    LF (I hope McCarthy)
    Peraza


    That is not even close to a team full of rookies.



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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Doc, what "team full of rookies" do you mean? Rizzo, Stanton, Bader, Trevino, JD, DJ are all well tenured players. The entire pitching staff will be vets. The only rookies we are truly discussing to me, are Peraza, Cabrera and possibly Volpe. The only way Volpe is there is if Torres is traded and that should only be for a high quality pitcher or player. The Yankees should get an LF. I don't want Cabrera playing there full time.

    Bader
    Judge
    RIzzo
    Stanton
    DJ
    Torres or Cabrera/Volpe
    Trevino
    LF (I hope McCarthy)
    Peraza


    That is not even close to a team full of rookies.
    that was kinda the lineup i was thinking

    I think Flo get a shot to win the 4th OF job, but that probably just me hoping.

    Technically, i don't think Cabrera is still a classified as a rookie.

    Peraza came up, played very well in a SSS and earned a shot if he's not traded.

    Volpe is a top 5 overall spec and finished in AAA. That's a guy i'd really like on the team, but the Yanks will want the extra yr of control so he's unlikely before May

    The next most likely deal would be Dom and thats unlikely till the very end of the yr and only if he has a monster season
    NYYNEW-TV Prospect Analyst

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Is it at all possible Judge sees a team full of rookies with limited experience as a potential hindrance to a ring any time soon? The "move on from certain players" cuts both ways. I realize Torres and JD are the targets.
    Doc, my initial response to this read as confrontational. It was not meant that way. I wrote it too quickly headed into work.
    I apologize if it came off as antagonistic. It wasn't meant to be



    Ignorance is bliss

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Doc, my initial response to this read as confrontational. It was not meant that way. I wrote it too quickly headed into work.
    I apologize if it came off as antagonistic. It wasn't meant to be
    Thanks appreciated, but not necessary.

    My point, is it remotely possible Judge is seeing the hand writing on the wall? He sees the plan for the young guys, on one hand welcomes the youth and development of a new core, but on the other sees the time line and horizon to a ring and may not want to wait that long? Is it remotely possible he would prefer to see seasoned vets with a track record of success and a history of post season play brought on board? Players that could potentially shorten the time line? An investment in a winning formula. Players like Boegerts, Turner or Correa. and Candelario or J Turner? Is it possible what he is looking for is a commitment to winning it all....relatively soon?

    I realize this is not a popular perspective, but one that seems plausible. Just a thought.


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Is it at all possible Judge sees a team full of rookies with limited experience as a potential hindrance to a ring any time soon? The "move on from certain players" cuts both ways. I realize Torres and JD are the targets.
    Money changes everything. Winning? What's that?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Money changes everything. Winning? What's that?
    Exactly. Plus, it's not like the Yankees won't consistently be in the playoff picture.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Thanks appreciated, but not necessary.

    My point, is it remotely possible Judge is seeing the hand writing on the wall? He sees the plan for the young guys, on one hand welcomes the youth and development of a new core, but on the other sees the time line and horizon to a ring and may not want to wait that long? Is it remotely possible he would prefer to see seasoned vets with a track record of success and a history of post season play brought on board? Players that could potentially shorten the time line? An investment in a winning formula. Players like Boegerts, Turner or Correa. and Candelario or J Turner? Is it possible what he is looking for is a commitment to winning it all....relatively soon?

    I realize this is not a popular perspective, but one that seems plausible. Just a thought.
    Honest question. Don't you think it also just as possible thats part of the reason we have the piss poor roster construction? They took on over 60m last winter to bring in IKF and JD instead of just going with Peraza and Gio, because they wanted that veteran whatever u want to call it?

    Houston went with Pena at SS and another very young player in CF and that seemed to workout. Pena wasn't even a top 100 prospect.

    Where has the older, more tested players gotten them the last 10yrs plus? They had tremendous success with young player in their 1st couple of yrs, Sanchez finished top 2 in ROY, Judge won, Anduar and Torres finished 2-3 in their ROY class. The more established those guys got, with the exception of Judge, the worse the got. For me, that screams bad coaching at the MLB level, not bad development. Those guys were all very, very successful in their rookie season, Sanchez, Judge and Torres were all AS in their first full yrs. They had similar success to Cabrera who was on pace for a 5 war season and Peraza who also performed at an extremally high level in a SSS.

    If a team can afford to pay the multiple huge salaries that the Yanks are in Judge( assuming he resigns) Cole, Stanton, JD, DJ and probably 1 other one if they have their wish, teams have to have to have young, cheap talented players on the roster to fill it out.

    With the way speed and range are going to effect the game next yr, you also need player who can benefit and exploit that.

    If Judge is choosing a roster based on how many veteran winners are on that roster, he isn't going to SF. They have, far, far more building to be done than we do

    Cabrera is still very young but he's going to be the utility guy. The only real rookie that we are likely to see from Day 1 is Peraza and I don't think you can argue Peraza isn't a much better player on both side of the ball than IKF.

    Volpe is a maybe we see him before May, but unlikely. If Judge has a problem with 1 significant rookie and another one mid season, he's going to have a problem finding any roster of the teams willing to pay him the money he's asking for. If he wants more, expensive players on the roster, shouldn't HE be conscious of how prohibitive his salary maybe to that? It's hard for teams to have a 40m AAV guy and 5-6 other guys making significant money, especially long term.

    I also don't think it's so much spending the money for a couple yrs, because Hal does spend a lot of money compared to 25 other teams.. He just hasn't spent the most, the last few yrs. I believe if some of these guys would take 4-5yr deals like players used to, then I think we'd have more of those veteran types your talking about. Signing anyone to a deal of 7yrs plus, is a big, big commitment..

    I honestly think it was far more the 13yr that Harper go that pushed the Yankees away, not the AAV. U could say that for a lot of the top players they haven't gotten in the last 10yrs IMO

    I think about it this way, how many of the marque FA available this winter that you would be thrilled to watch for the next 8-12yrs? Judge sure, Correa at 3rd maybe? Turner or Swanson, hard pass. Xander maybe 5-6 MAX?

    I'd happily watch Peraza, Cabrea, Volpe and eventually Dom for a couple yr's while they are making less than 1m a piece and re ***** after each yr similar to what they are doing with Torres. The great thing for us, is if for some reason they don't workout, we have even more, extremely talented middle INF on their way. Maybe Arias develops into a switch hitting Arod like so many think he can and when he's ready you trade a Volpe or Peraza for something else we need
    Last edited by dayners81; 12-02-2022 at 01:17 AM.
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Thanks appreciated, but not necessary.

    My point, is it remotely possible Judge is seeing the hand writing on the wall? He sees the plan for the young guys, on one hand welcomes the youth and development of a new core, but on the other sees the time line and horizon to a ring and may not want to wait that long? Is it remotely possible he would prefer to see seasoned vets with a track record of success and a history of post season play brought on board? Players that could potentially shorten the time line? An investment in a winning formula. Players like Boegerts, Turner or Correa. and Candelario or J Turner? Is it possible what he is looking for is a commitment to winning it all....relatively soon?

    I realize this is not a popular perspective, but one that seems plausible. Just a thought.
    I will say this. If Judge is the kind of player who wants to buy his way to a title, I don't want him. If Judge is a player that would ask the FO to spend on high priced vets, because they have a track record, so that he can win a title, I don't want him.

    Judge has stated, a team that can win now and in the future. To me, that sounds like a guy who welcomes youth.
    So is it remotely possible he's a prima dona who wants the best toys? Yes. But I wouldn't want him on the team if that's who he is

    Is it also possible that he sees the veteran moves made, money spent and scathes his head and asks, why don't they give the young guys a shot? Yes.

    Personally, I thought he had a blast with Cabrera. I think they all did (Except hicks.who lost his job to, and was then injured by Cabrera)

    Again,
    Rizzo- Vet. 33
    Stanton- Vet. 33
    DJ- Vet 36
    Trevino- Vet. 30
    Torres-Vet- 26 (in a couple weeks )
    JD- Vet 37
    Bader- Vet- 28


    This is an old team. Does Judge want to add age because it means they have experience? I doubt it. That makes no sense
    Does he want to add good player? I would think so.

    Plug in Turner/Bogearts/Correa into the current lineup.

    Personally, I don't think that moves the needle all that much. You also then allocate how much for one of them?
    You sign judge for 40 AAV. Then one of the other guys at 30+?
    Now you have Judge, Cole and that player eating well over 100 mil. That doesn't take into account the age of these other guys. They are not old but they will be in a few years.

    I was reluctant but all for a Soto trade. That made sense. But you don't get guys like Soto if they never play. It is obviously my opinion and I have zero knowledge regarding it but I can speak from myself and I have to believe Judge likes the idea of young players being given a shot. Again, this isn't a roster full of youth. If Peraza stepped in at SS and you kept Torres at 2b, those are your two youngest starters, one of whom is a 5 year vet.

    Where I would agree about signing a good player is for 3B, C and LF. Maybe Cashman is right and JD still has it in him. If he becomes a 270/350/850OPS who hits 30 HR? The lineup is different.

    I think Yankees screwed the pooch by signing him.

    Even Bader, who I love, isn't a very good offensive player but we are supposed to eat up how good he is defensively. He's a career 250/320 hitter. It's not bad if you are one of a couple guys like that but this lineup is littered with that type of hitter.


    The roster is another reason I think he could walk.



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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Money changes everything. Winning? What's that?
    I don't sense Judge is governed by greed. Yes he wants a payday, maybe his last, I believe he is motivated by achievement. I believe he wants to win.


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  13. #88
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    Day and clown, Please understand, I am not anti youth at all, I am pro winning....soon! I see the window closing and feel waiting on rooks to mature simply adds to the timeline. Imo. a Boegerts, Turner, Correa, Candelario or J Turner (to name a few) accelerate the process and undoubtedly make the Yankees a better and stronger team NOW.

    You both alluded to and enumerate the current vets on the roster. Imo they are getting a bit long in the tooth, they are vets but simply old imo. JD is worthless save for his glove. DJ, who I love, has his best days behind him. Injuries have taken a toll and may continue to plague him. At one time maybe the best 2B in the game is now a mere shadow of his former self. The one "young" vet I feel worthy, Torres, you both want to ship out in a heartbeat.

    I am not suggesting aging old vets at every position. I am suggesting young, experienced vets with post season history at key positions. I feel SS maybe the most important position of need. I like Bader and Benintendi who I consider young vets. To be clear, I am not suggesting a roster littered with JD's. Age is not the issue, experience is, the time required to gel is, post season experience and performing in pressure situ are. The timeline to a WS ring is, imo, the most important criteria.

    Clown, it isn't buying a title. It's maximizing an opportunity. Attracting and signing the best available talent. At one time the Yankees did it better than most. Before you mention the core 4 and Bernie realize that was a moment in time that the Yankees as an organization hasn't come close to replicating. They have failed to produce that level of talent since. Also keep in mind they always supplemented the core with key FA's, Cone, Matsui, Mussina, CC , Teixeira to name a few.

    I am getting old. Older by the day. All I ask is another ring before I cash in the chips. The spects extend the timeline, maybe a bit too far for me.

    ps. Day, IKF and JD are NOT what I consider smart veteran moves. They are NOT the players I am alluding to. I want young guys with experience, but not green spects that may take years to develop at the ML level.
    Last edited by drt1010; 12-02-2022 at 09:22 AM.


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Day and clown, Please understand, I am not anti youth at all, I am pro winning....soon! I see the window closing and feel waiting on rooks to mature simply adds to the timeline. Imo. a Boegerts, Turner, Correa, Candelario or J Turner (to name a few) accelerate the process and undoubtedly make the Yankees a better and stronger team NOW.

    You both alluded to and enumerate the current vets on the roster. Imo they are getting a bit long in the tooth, they are vets but simply old imo. JD is worthless save for his glove. DJ, who I love, has his best days behind him. Injuries have taken a toll and may continue to plague him. At one time maybe the best 2B in the game is now a mere shadow of his former self. The one "young" vet I feel worthy, Torres, you both want to ship out in a heartbeat.

    I am not suggesting aging old vets at every position. I am suggesting young, experienced vets with post season history at key positions. I feel SS maybe the most important position of need. I like Bader and Benintendi who I consider young vets. To be clear, I am not suggesting a roster littered with JD's. Age is not the issue, experience is, the time required to gel is, post season experience and performing in pressure situ are. The timeline to a WS ring is, imo, the most important criteria.

    Clown, it isn't buying a title. It's maximizing an opportunity. Attracting and signing the best available talent. At one time the Yankees did it better than most. Before you mention the core 4 and Bernie realize that was a moment in time that the Yankees as an organization hasn't come close to replicating. They have failed to produce that level of talent since. Also keep in mind they always supplemented the core with key FA's, Cone, Matsui, Mussina, CC , Teixeira to name a few.

    I am getting old. Older by the day. All I ask is another ring before I cash in the chips. The spects extend the timeline, maybe a bit too far for me.

    ps. Day, IKF and JD are NOT what I consider smart veteran moves. They are NOT the players I am alluding to. I want young guys with experience, but not green spects that may take years to develop at the ML level.
    exactly how i feel i am getting older by the day i also would like to see the yanks win another world series instead of the yankees going the longest time between winning world series in franchise history...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Honest question. Don't you think it also just as possible thats part of the reason we have the piss poor roster construction? They took on over 60m last winter to bring in IKF and JD instead of just going with Peraza and Gio, because they wanted that veteran whatever u want to call it?

    Houston went with Pena at SS and another very young player in CF and that seemed to workout. Pena wasn't even a top 100 prospect.

    Where has the older, more tested players gotten them the last 10yrs plus? They had tremendous success with young player in their 1st couple of yrs, Sanchez finished top 2 in ROY, Judge won, Anduar and Torres finished 2-3 in their ROY class. The more established those guys got, with the exception of Judge, the worse the got. For me, that screams bad coaching at the MLB level, not bad development. Those guys were all very, very successful in their rookie season, Sanchez, Judge and Torres were all AS in their first full yrs. They had similar success to Cabrera who was on pace for a 5 war season and Peraza who also performed at an extremally high level in a SSS.

    If a team can afford to pay the multiple huge salaries that the Yanks are in Judge( assuming he resigns) Cole, Stanton, JD, DJ and probably 1 other one if they have their wish, teams have to have to have young, cheap talented players on the roster to fill it out.

    With the way speed and range are going to effect the game next yr, you also need player who can benefit and exploit that.

    If Judge is choosing a roster based on how many veteran winners are on that roster, he isn't going to SF. They have, far, far more building to be done than we do

    Cabrera is still very young but he's going to be the utility guy. The only real rookie that we are likely to see from Day 1 is Peraza and I don't think you can argue Peraza isn't a much better player on both side of the ball than IKF.

    Volpe is a maybe we see him before May, but unlikely. If Judge has a problem with 1 significant rookie and another one mid season, he's going to have a problem finding any roster of the teams willing to pay him the money he's asking for. If he wants more, expensive players on the roster, shouldn't HE be conscious of how prohibitive his salary maybe to that? It's hard for teams to have a 40m AAV guy and 5-6 other guys making significant money, especially long term.

    I also don't think it's so much spending the money for a couple yrs, because Hal does spend a lot of money compared to 25 other teams.. He just hasn't spent the most, the last few yrs. I believe if some of these guys would take 4-5yr deals like players used to, then I think we'd have more of those veteran types your talking about. Signing anyone to a deal of 7yrs plus, is a big, big commitment..

    I honestly think it was far more the 13yr that Harper go that pushed the Yankees away, not the AAV. U could say that for a lot of the top players they haven't gotten in the last 10yrs IMO

    I think about it this way, how many of the marque FA available this winter that you would be thrilled to watch for the next 8-12yrs? Judge sure, Correa at 3rd maybe? Turner or Swanson, hard pass. Xander maybe 5-6 MAX?

    I'd happily watch Peraza, Cabrea, Volpe and eventually Dom for a couple yr's while they are making less than 1m a piece and re ***** after each yr similar to what they are doing with Torres. The great thing for us, is if for some reason they don't workout, we have even more, extremely talented middle INF on their way. Maybe Arias develops into a switch hitting Arod like so many think he can and when he's ready you trade a Volpe or Peraza for something else we need




    Point taken, however which group gets you closer to a ring the quickest? It's not only about who may be more "fun" to watch, for me it's about who gives you the best shot at winning....NOW.

    If they don't work out in a couple years! Day I am old. I don't have time to waste.


    Sell the Team, HAL!

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