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  1. #256
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post

    The problem is these guys ages and deGrom's injury history. That doesn't get better as guys creep up closer to their middle 30s or in Scherzer's case as he approaches 40. You can put easy money on both of those guys hitting the IL at least one next year.
    I completely agree, we should be hoping for 25-28 starts

    We should go with a rotation of

    Degrom 25 starts
    Scherzer 25 starts
    Verlander 25 starts
    Rodon 25 starts
    Ohtani 10 starts (trade deadline pickup)
    Carrasco 25 starts
    Peterson 15 starts
    Megill 12 starts

    Get it done Omar!

  2. #257
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
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    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The problem with signing deGrom and Nimmo is you're running back a lot of the same team that lost in the WC round. I do think they re-sign them but they have to be creative elsewhere. Its a shame they didn't get Renfroe because the Angels didn't give up much to get him and he would have been a nice bat behind Alonso. Not ideal but better than what they had aside from the days that McNeil was their 5th place hitter. I think they need to do some lineup shuffling as well. Move McNeil up in the order and move Marte down unless he's going to go back to stealing bases like he did in 2021.

    Haniger isn't a bad option but the Mets won't outbid teams for him unless they don't re-sign Nimmo. And if they do sign Haniger before Nimmo signs that hurts some of Nimmo's leverage with the Mets. They have to resolve Nimmo and deGrom soon but the likelihood of that happening is slim, especially when it comes to Brandon because it seems enough teams like his ability.

    That's why I don't get all the bluster about a potential reunion with Conforto. He's another Bora's client is going to want Michael to sign a deal where he is an everyday player. That isn't happening here.
    On the other hand, the premise of bringing back the same team that lost in the WC round actually worked after 2021, especially with regard to Lindor, Walker, and Carasco.

    BTW, getting to the WC was a significant achievement in and of itself, considering the Mets won 77 games in 2021. There is nothing wrong with bringing back players from 2022. You bring back players that you project will be productive while at the same time making other improvements. The Mets got to the WC and Rome wasn't built in a day, in 2023 we do better.

    And what if the Mets had gone further and made it to the WS. Look at what the Phillies did.

    I have no problem bringing back Degrom and Nimmo, depending on how much it takes to sign them.

    I'm not worried about any health risk for Degrom now. Even the scapula injury had nothing to do with his elbow or any long term effects on his arm. What does bother me about Degrom is that he always seems to be pitching without a lot of run support. I know you can't blame Degrom for that, but then again, I wonder. It also bothers me that Degrom does not pitch deep into games, at least he hasn't in the past. I understand that is the case for a lot of pitchers, but it seems to be more the case with Degrom.

    I won't miss Degrom if the Mets get somebody in his place. That means Verlander. However, I also wonder if Rodon might be worth it as well, albeit he is no Degrom or Verlander. My sense is the Mets would go for Verlander if they lose Degrom, but you could make a good argument for Rodon.

  3. #258
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
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    1,031
    [QUOTE=swbwtr;34539248]
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmiler2 View Post
    I agree. Alvarez probably gets some AAA seasoning and called up in May. If McCann has a lousy start, he gets released like Cano did. If McCann is doing ok, they carry three catchers with Alonso getting a lot of ABs as DH.[/QU


    Did you mean Alvarez will get a lot of ABs vs. left handed pitchers? I think Vogie will be getting the lion's share of DH opps vs. righty pitching.
    I meant Alvarez getting some DH at bats.

  4. #259
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Brooklyn
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    51,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyndave View Post
    There is a big difference and it is two big IFS. IF Degrom AND Scherzer stay healthy the entire year we would have won going away .
    Maybe but you can't bank on those things anymore. I love deGrom but even if they re-sign him, there's a good chance he will be on the shelf a decent amount over however long they bring him back for. I dont worry about winning the division. Ideally you want to but make the playoffs. The rest is a crap shoot. That said, I hope the roster looks different and not just because they didn't re-sign all their FA. I want different pieces in the pen, more offense and Senga.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-25-2022 at 05:37 PM.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUDIT View Post
    On the other hand, the premise of bringing back the same team that lost in the WC round actually worked after 2021, especially with regard to Lindor, Walker, and Carasco.

    BTW, getting to the WC was a significant achievement in and of itself, considering the Mets won 77 games in 2021. There is nothing wrong with bringing back players from 2022. You bring back players that you project will be productive while at the same time making other improvements. The Mets got to the WC and Rome wasn't built in a day, in 2023 we do better.

    And what if the Mets had gone further and made it to the WS. Look at what the Phillies did.

    I have no problem bringing back Degrom and Nimmo, depending on how much it takes to sign them.

    I'm not worried about any health risk for Degrom now. Even the scapula injury had nothing to do with his elbow or any long term effects on his arm. What does bother me about Degrom is that he always seems to be pitching without a lot of run support. I know you can't blame Degrom for that, but then again, I wonder. It also bothers me that Degrom does not pitch deep into games, at least he hasn't in the past. I understand that is the case for a lot of pitchers, but it seems to be more the case with Degrom.

    I won't miss Degrom if the Mets get somebody in his place. That means Verlander. However, I also wonder if Rodon might be worth it as well, albeit he is no Degrom or Verlander. My sense is the Mets would go for Verlander if they lose Degrom, but you could make a good argument for Rodon.
    I'm fine with bringing back players. I just want to see a decent amount of turnover and some trades. Make some out of the box moves that people aren't automatically turning to when they see who is available in FA. That includes even getting rid of guys like Ruf and McCann. All these FA leave them not just holes but roster spots they can be creative in filling.

    As I said, I will always be a deGrom fan but the laundry is more important than the individual player. If not re-signing deGrom means more money can be spent to improve the roster elsewhere, so be it. Enjoy Texas.

    Obviously they need to find SP. I would like to see different faces in the pen and I still think they need more offense than what they're getting out of Canha, Escobar, the catcher's spot and RH DH.

  6. #261
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    Oct 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I'm fine with bringing back players. I just want to see a decent amount of turnover and some trades. Make some out of the box moves that people aren't automatically turning to when they see who is available in FA. That includes even getting rid of guys like Ruf and McCann. All these FA leave them not just holes but roster spots they can be creative in filling.

    As I said, I will always be a deGrom fan but the laundry is more important than the individual player. If not re-signing deGrom means more money can be spent to improve the roster elsewhere, so be it. Enjoy Texas.

    Obviously they need to find SP. I would like to see different faces in the pen and I still think they need more offense than what they're getting out of Canha, Escobar, the catcher's spot and RH DH.
    Turnover for turnover sake doesn't make any sense. The Mets are going to make moves like going after Senga, and/or Rodon or Verlander, maybe Mitch Haniger, possibly Yoshidi, but also they should bring back guys like Ottavino, even May and possibly Lugo. Let's not gloss over the fact the Mets won 101 games and they did that with injuries to their starters, not having Degrom for three quarters of the season, losing Megill for most of the year, and times when Walker and Carrasco were not available. That is amazing if you think about it.

    And what is the story with Escobar. He has a poor most of the year and you are willing to write him off. Let's not forget he hit 28 homers and drove in 90 runs the year before.

    As for RH DH, they should already have one in Vientos. Say what you will about a man without a position, defense is irrelevant when it comes to DH.

    As for having more money by not signing DeGrom, you know as well as everybody here in this forum that if the Mets do not sign Degrom they will spend that money on somebody like Verlander or Rodon. So it is not a matter of having more money to improve other areas. That Degrom money will be spent on his replacement.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUDIT View Post
    Turnover for turnover sake doesn't make any sense. The Mets are going to make moves like going after Senga, and/or Rodon or Verlander, maybe Mitch Haniger, possibly Yoshidi, but also they should bring back guys like Ottavino, even May and possibly Lugo. Let's not gloss over the fact the Mets won 101 games and they did that with injuries to their starters, not having Degrom for three quarters of the season, losing Megill for most of the year, and times when Walker and Carrasco were not available. That is amazing if you think about it.

    And what is the story with Escobar. He has a poor most of the year and you are willing to write him off. Let's not forget he hit 28 homers and drove in 90 runs the year before.

    As for RH DH, they should already have one in Vientos. Say what you will about a man without a position, defense is irrelevant when it comes to DH.

    As for having more money by not signing DeGrom, you know as well as everybody here in this forum that if the Mets do not sign Degrom they will spend that money on somebody like Verlander or Rodon. So it is not a matter of having more money to improve other areas. That Degrom money will be spent on his replacement.
    I am saying they will have more money because Rodon won't cost as much in terms of AAV. Yeah you surrender the 2nd and 5th round pick and IFA slot money but I still think that might be better than signing a 40 year old in Verlander.

    Not talking about turnover for turnover sake either. I know they aren't bringing back the exact same team as last year. Just want to see them make improvements on some of the guys they already have or had. Might cost them more money than their payroll from last year to do it as well.

    I am not writing Escobar off btw. I just dont think he's viable as an everyday player. That happens when you dont hit for most of the season.
    Last edited by metswon69; Yesterday at 11:18 AM.

  8. #263
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    2,317
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    I completely agree, we should be hoping for 25-28 starts

    We should go with a rotation of

    Degrom 25 starts
    Scherzer 25 starts
    Verlander 25 starts
    Rodon 25 starts
    Ohtani 10 starts (trade deadline pickup)
    Carrasco 25 starts
    Peterson 15 starts
    Megill 12 starts

    Get it done Omar!
    This is a good way to look at it but I am certain that, at best, the Mets will only get 1 of deGrom, Verlander and Rodon. You can't expect Ohtani to be traded to the Mets. If the Angels are in it at trade deadline, Ohtani will not be traded during the 2023 season, and if the Angels reach the post season they will do all they can to keep Ohtani.

    So that leaves 25 starts for deGrom, Verlander or Rodon. Assume zero starts for Ohtani. Scherzer, Carrasco, Peterson and Megill will need to pick up 30 starts apieces. That is 145. They still need a mid-rotation guy to pick up the remaining 17 (and any of the starts that the current top 4 can't make due to injury etc.) or it will be the likes of Lucchesi or someone who isn't on the roster yet as the spot starter.

    The Mets are really slow this year. By this time last season, Eppler already was close to completing deals for Marte, Escobar, Canha, Bassitt and Ottavino. He has only so far gotten Edwin Diaz and a slew of projects in the mostly minor league pitchers he has picked up. Not good for Mr. Eppler. If he screws up this offseason where Alderson is seemingly not getting involved, look for a real POBO to come on board.

    And you mention Omar, where is he. He was always a little trigger happy but mostly in a good way.
    Last edited by swbwtr; Yesterday at 03:48 PM.

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