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  1. #7201
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    2022-2023 Cubs Offseason Free Agent & Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sofnr View Post
    Are there any projections that don't say this is a .500ish team? Has anyone projected them to be in the playoffs? They can obviously exceed or fall behind expectations but on paper I'm not sure another team in the league is a better example of mediocre.
    Right. Itís not like the cubs FO doesnít know that either. They know this team is mediocre and they are hoping for an unlikely best case outcome where they are in a playoff race late in the year.

    Even when Jed and Ricketts talk about this team they talk about ďcompeting within the division.Ē They know what this team is and isnít.


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    Last edited by CP_414; 02-04-2023 at 07:45 PM.

  2. #7202
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    This is what I don't understand. Why would they spend so much money to be mediocre if they could be mediocre and not spend money? What does mediocre accomplish? A mid draft pick? Mediocre is a terrible place to be. They should either be tanking or trying to win the World Series
    22 mil of that money is to a guy that not on the team, so they only added around 22 mil..
    Payroll may be at 215 now, but it wouldn't surprise me if it under 200 by a good amount after the deadline.



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  3. #7203
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    Put me down on this team would be lucky to be .500. Unless someone(s) young comes out of nowhere this offense is just not very good.

  4. #7204
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Right. Itís not like the cubs FO doesnít know that either. They know this team is mediocre and they are hoping for an unlikely best case outcome where they are in a playoff race late in the year.

    Even when Jed and Ricketts talk about this team they talk about ďcompeting within the division.Ē They know what this team is and isnít.


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    Our chances vs the Cards and Brewers for the division seem better than a wildcard spot among Mets, Braves, Dodgers, Padres, Phillies.

    Significant dropoff after those teams, besides possibly the Giants but they didn't have a good offseason.

    I think they tried to build the best team they could under the cap without trading prospects but i'm sure Hoyer knows its a longshot to win the division.
    Last edited by Stratos; 02-05-2023 at 12:37 AM.

  5. #7205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sofnr View Post
    Are there any projections that don't say this is a .500ish team? Has anyone projected them to be in the playoffs? They can obviously exceed or fall behind expectations but on paper I'm not sure another team in the league is a better example of mediocre.
    I'd actually like to see projections for this team and NL central.

  6. #7206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    I'd actually like to see projections for this team and NL central.
    How did the projections from Jan/Feb of '22 do at projecting team wins last year? Did any get everyteam's win total right (say within two games of the projected win total)? How about divson winners? How many publshed projections from this time last year got all 6 right? That's why you still have to play the games.
    Last edited by Stevemil505; 02-05-2023 at 01:50 AM.

  7. #7207
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    I think we are hovering around 500Ö. Couple games above or below. But I do believe we had the chance to move that needle 5ish games higher Ö. Just my opinion

    Very disappointed the route the FO took

  8. #7208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post

    I think they tried to build the best team they could under the cap without trading prospects but i'm sure Hoyer knows its a longshot to win the division.
    This is my opinion as well. The original comment I responded to was CP suggesting Jed would not say the team is outstanding if he gave an honest assessment. Thawv wondered why the Cubs would build a mediocre team by spending as much as they did instead of just spending less and sucking or at best being mediocre. My entire point was, while I agree Jed would agree that the Cubs are not outstanding, IMO, he didnít try to just make the team mediocre. He was aiming for good, but was only working within the guidelines given to him. So that is why he did what he did this off season. We can now argue if he did make a good team, a mediocre team or a team that sucks. That is a separate discussion. But IMO I believe if you asked Jed his honest opinion he would say he can see an 83-85 win team here. He probably fell short of his goal of a playoff team, but IMO that was his plan this year.

    Since others want to give their opinions on the team, I feel if left alone and guys arenít traded at the deadline we are looking at a low 80ís win team. 82-83 wins.

    I am not arguing the difference in the word mediocre versus pretty good. I am disagreeing with thawv that the plan prior to spring training was to build a mediocre/pretty good team. Ultimately that is what it appears they did, however.

  9. #7209
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    Whatever plan they had going into the offseason blew up in their face because of how terribly wrong Hoyer was on the market.

    There is no chance that this team right now is what their goal was and it has nothing to do with some kind of restriction set by Ricketts. They were apparently pretty serious about adding Bogaerts AND Swanson, but Bogaerts got a deal way beyond the comfort level of this FO in terms of years... like they are going to be around and have to deal with the last 5 years of that contract or some ****.

    Hoyer said it himself that the goal is to fill holes on the team so that subsequent FA periods can be more efficient and that you aren't filling as many holes. He said they wanted to fill CF, infield, 2 SP's, DH, C. Ok, lets break it down and see how successful we were in filling holes for next year with what we did in FA this year.

    CF? Nope... you signed a 1 year deadline flip project and spent $17.5M on him which was just $500k under his projected arbitration number that got him cut from the Dodgers. So next year you are still going to have to fill the same damn hole you said you tried to fill this year.

    Infield? Sort of... one of the best positions on the team last year was SS. So, you signed a SS to move your already good SS to 2B. Improvement? Sure, because 2B was a revolving door of mediocrity and you upgraded it along with a potential upgrade at SS if Swanson doesn't revert to his 3 fWAR norm. If he does revert, then its just a wash at SS. He's still going to have to fill the actual hole at 3B next year because nothing was done there. And instead of letting a 25 year old prospect who just destroyed every level of the minors get his look at 1B and maybe not having to go through the hoops of looking for a 1B next offseason, there's still the question of what to do with 1B because he chose to block him with bums like Eric Hosmer and Trey Mancini.

    2 SP's? It's almost a certainty that Stroman will either be traded at the deadline or opt out of his deal and Kyle Hendricks is on the final year of his deal. Going to be looking for 2 more SP's next offseason. Which is fine, because pitching is volatile and pretty much every team is searching for that every year.

    DH? Replaced a bum league average hitter with another bum league average hitter. Didn't accomplish **** and going to be looking for a DH again next year.

    C? Still dont have a viable starter at the position and half of the platoon is on the final year of his deal so at best he's still looking for a C next offseason, possibly multiple.

    And just to add insult to injury, on top of all the positions that we were looking for this offseason and will again be looking for next offseason, Ian Happ is in his final year so there's going to be an additional hole to fill next year.

    So if Hoyer's goal was to go into this offseason and fill holes so there wouldn't be as many holes to fill in the future, he failed miserably by his own admission. He better damn well hope he is right in being the smartest man in the room with all these meh prospects turning into long term solutions, because hoping for another 2015 with guys that arent nearly as well regarded seems like a pretty stupid position to take. Bravo, Hoyer. Bravo!
    Last edited by cuzi; 02-05-2023 at 11:38 AM.

  10. #7210
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    2022-2023 Cubs Offseason Free Agent & Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    This is my opinion as well. The original comment I responded to was CP suggesting Jed would not say the team is outstanding if he gave an honest assessment. Thawv wondered why the Cubs would build a mediocre team by spending as much as they did instead of just spending less and sucking or at best being mediocre. My entire point was, while I agree Jed would agree that the Cubs are not outstanding, IMO, he didnít try to just make the team mediocre. He was aiming for good, but was only working within the guidelines given to him. So that is why he did what he did this off season. We can now argue if he did make a good team, a mediocre team or a team that sucks. That is a separate discussion. But IMO I believe if you asked Jed his honest opinion he would say he can see an 83-85 win team here. He probably fell short of his goal of a playoff team, but IMO that was his plan this year.

    Since others want to give their opinions on the team, I feel if left alone and guys arenít traded at the deadline we are looking at a low 80ís win team. 82-83 wins.

    I am not arguing the difference in the word mediocre versus pretty good. I am disagreeing with thawv that the plan prior to spring training was to build a mediocre/pretty good team. Ultimately that is what it appears they did, however.
    Obviously Iím not saying they tried to be mediocre instead of good. They tried to be mediocre instead of bad. They couldnít be good with what they had on the team plus a refusal to trade good prospects, a refusal to spend into the tax, and a refusal to sign any of the best free agents because they didnít want to give enough years.

    Good was off the table the way they are running this team, so they preferred mediocre over bad.

    As we approach ST, they arenít good. 83-85 wins would be overachievement for this club and 83-85 is still more ďmediocreĒ than ďgoodĒ to me. Jed knows there is a > 50% chance they finish sub .500.

  11. #7211
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    This team doesn't have a closer. Boxberger isn't dominant and is a pretty average reliever. Wick sucked last year. Estrada is a rookie and you don't rely on a rookie to be your closer out the gate. Hughes is more of a setup type. Other guys seem like multi inning relief.

    If they sign Chafin is he the closer? Hopefully a pen guy they may sign this month can fill the role.

  12. #7212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    This team doesn't have a closer. Boxberger isn't dominant and is a pretty average reliever. Wick sucked last year. Estrada is a rookie and you don't rely on a rookie to be your closer out the gate. Hughes is more of a setup type. Other guys seem like multi inning relief.

    If they sign Chafin is he the closer? Hopefully a pen guy they may sign this month can fill the role.
    No give the young guy his chance. Who gives a ****

  13. #7213
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    Man the Orioles could really be building something great. They got a stacked farm system. Gonna be interesting to watch.

  14. #7214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    This team doesn't have a closer. Boxberger isn't dominant and is a pretty average reliever. Wick sucked last year. Estrada is a rookie and you don't rely on a rookie to be your closer out the gate. Hughes is more of a setup type. Other guys seem like multi inning relief.

    If they sign Chafin is he the closer? Hopefully a pen guy they may sign this month can fill the role.
    Plenty of rookies get thrown into the closer role and do fine. Pretty minimal concern.

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  15. #7215
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    Plenty of rookies get thrown into the closer role and do fine. Pretty minimal concern.

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    I would like another lefty in the pen, but I also would be fine with that lefty not being the closer and going with a young arm to close. They could use a veteran in the pen. Doesnít have to close, however, IMO.

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