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Thread: O's @ NYY

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    The question you have not answered or have conveniently avoided, what role did PEDs play? You list numerous accolades but fail to even mention PEDs or Balco. He cheated. He cheated the game. He cheated himself. He gave BB a black eye it's still wearing.

    Judge hit 52 in 2017, 39 in 2021 and 27 two years in between. Not too bad considering the injuries he sustained. And most important he did it clean!
    I havenít avoided that, conveniently or otherwise

    Iím talking about before that time. Unless you think he was juicing at 30, or at 27. As that was the question asked. And in full disclosure, Iím not a fan of Bonds at all, nor am I ďdefendingĒ him in any way, or discrediting Judge. Iím comparing them, and Bonds deal at that time. And it is an apples/apples comparison, one I wouldnít have made, or brought up, if someone else didnít first. How about comparing him to Trout?

    All Iím saying, is that 10 years, or a dollar amount that makes him highest by 5M or more, is way too much. Not saying he canít or wonít be awesome going forward, or Iíd like it if he leaves, but Iíd understand the FO not matching an offer like that.
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 10-01-2022 at 09:14 AM.

  2. #62
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    Comparing Judge and Bonds age 24 - 30 seasons they are very similar. Judge had 219 HR's in 2622 AB's and Bonds in the same age range had 227 in 3518 AB's. Almost 1K more AB's.

    Judge slashed .284 /.395/.584 OPS.979, TB 1531 during the period.
    Bonds slashed 298/ .419/ .571, OPS .990, TB's2007.


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Comparing Judge and Bonds age 24 - 30 seasons they are very similar. Judge had 219 HR's in 2622 AB's and Bonds in the same age range had 227 in 3518 AB's. Almost 1K more AB's.

    Judge slashed .284 /.395/.584 OPS.979, TB 1531 during the period.
    Bonds slashed 298/ .419/ .571, OPS .990, TB's2007.
    Bonds was better. And better in relation to the rest of the league. And an automatic GG every year
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 10-01-2022 at 09:22 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I havenít avoided that, conveniently or otherwise

    Iím talking about before that time. Unless you think he was juicing at 30, or at 27. As that was the question asked. And in full disclosure, Iím not a fan of Bonds at all, nor am I ďdefendingĒ him in any way, or discrediting Judge. Iím comparing them, and Bonds deal at that time. And it is an apples/apples comparison, one I wouldnít have made, or brought up, if someone else didnít first. How about comparing him to Trout?

    All Iím saying, is that 10 years, or a dollar amount that makes him highest by 5M or more, is way too much. Not saying he canít or wonít be awesome going forward, or Iíd like it if he leaves, but Iíd understand the FO not matching an offer like that.
    Fair enough.

    During Balco investigation it became public he began using in 1999. There was a plethora of info that wasn't released. There was speculation that he and others started using well before 1999.

    In 1889, for example, pitcher Pud Galvin became the first baseball player to be widely known for his use of performance-enhancing substances. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/...toryId=5314753
    Last edited by drt1010; 10-01-2022 at 09:24 AM.


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Bonds was better. And better in relation to the rest of the league. And an automatic GG every year
    early on in his career bonds was better then judge defensively but from 1992 on bonds was nothing special by his war... judge has much more power then bonds judge is the strongest player in baseball...

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Bonds was better. And better in relation to the rest of the league. And an automatic GG every year
    You may believe that to be true but the numbers, at least during the age range specified, suggest otherwise. Bonds had almost 1K more AB's and Judge had the better SLG%.

    I agree Bonds was better in relation to the league. Would you also admit, at least this season, a potential triple crown winner and HR champ is head and shoulders above the rest of the league? It may have also been true in 2017?


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny ny View Post
    early on in his career bonds was better then judge defensively but from 1992 on bonds was nothing special by his war... judge has much more power then bonds judge is the strongest player in baseball...
    From 1992 to the end of the 90s, he led the league in WAR 5 times

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    You may believe that to be true but the numbers, at least during the age range specified, suggest otherwise. Bonds had almost 1K more AB's and Judge had the better SLG%.

    I agree Bonds was better in relation to the league. Would you also admit, at least this season, a potential triple crown winner and HR champ is head and shoulders above the rest of the league? It may have also been true in 2017?
    They really donít though. Bonds had better average, better OBP, better ops, as per what you showed. So yes, Judge had the HR edge. Bonds had most of the rest, and also stole bases

    Iíd say Bonds was consistently better overall. Not a huge edge, but he was. And doing it every year matters, in the context we are discussing. Judge was a bit more up and down. And didnít lead in categories consistently. Which matters, if someone is saying he should be highest paid in the league by a big margin

    Splitting hairs. But Iíd say they were 100% comparable, either way, and as per the question asked, Bonds wasnít even highest paid then. Not that Iíd have ever pointed to that as meaning something, but it was brought up, so I looked into it. These findings actually surprised me
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 10-01-2022 at 10:05 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    From 1992 to the end of the 90s, he led the league in WAR 5 times
    No question, Bonds was a great player, makes one wonder why he believed he needed to resort to PED's.

    From 1986-1998, Bonds hit .290 and averaged 32 home runs and 93 RBI. He hit one home run every 16 at-bats.


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    You may believe that to be true but the numbers, at least during the age range specified, suggest otherwise. Bonds had almost 1K more AB's and Judge had the better SLG%.

    I agree Bonds was better in relation to the league. Would you also admit, at least this season, a potential triple crown winner and HR champ is head and shoulders above the rest of the league? It may have also been true in 2017?
    I also think we need to look at this from a specific view. Whatever that view it needs to be consistent.

    Bonds Vs Judge from 24-30- OK. I think Bonds was a better player. Doc, you posted some really similar numbers and I see where Judge did more HR-wise but as Shady mentioned, lets also talk Glove and equally as important, SB.In that period bonds had over 300 SB. He had a few 30-30+ years.

    Judge is a very special player in a very special season. I think the next 4-5 years will really show us all if he isa better player than bonds.

    I will also use and argument you made about Soto vs some Yankees specs. Bonds was so good that he had 85 SB and 65 HR before his 24 year old season.Judge wasn't good enough to get to the majors till he was 24.



    Ignorance is bliss

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny ny View Post
    looks like britton leaves the game with a injury his yankee career is over clap clap..


    Okay Nicky.....oh sorry.....You two are like twins. Career ending? wHY?
    The REAL DEAL Yankee fan

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I also think we need to look at this from a specific view. Whatever that view it needs to be consistent.

    Bonds Vs Judge from 24-30- OK. I think Bonds was a better player. Doc, you posted some really similar numbers and I see where Judge did more HR-wise but as Shady mentioned, lets also talk Glove and equally as important, SB.In that period bonds had over 300 SB. He had a few 30-30+ years.

    Judge is a very special player in a very special season. I think the next 4-5 years will really show us all if he isa better player than bonds.

    I will also use and argument you made about Soto vs some Yankees specs. Bonds was so good that he had 85 SB and 65 HR before his 24 year old season.Judge wasn't good enough to get to the majors till he was 24.
    No question. I conceded that point to Shady. He was a great player. However he had help. Let's not deny the PED use. Let's not also deny in the age 24-30 I used for comparison, Bonds had almost 1K more AB's.

    Investigation (BALCO) proved he used from 1998, there is speculative evidence, that was not made public , suggesting it was much earlier. Records show Bonds as a Pittsburgh Pirate in 1986 weighing a trim 185 pounds (83.9 kg). He stayed at 185 pounds until 1991, when his listed weight rises to 190 pounds (86.2 kg) and it shot up suddenly to 206 (93.4 kg) in 1997 -- more than a 10 percent rise in weight.

    In 2001 he weighed 228 pounds (103.4 kg) and smacked 73 home runs.

    The Soto argument is fair. Bonds was a great player from the outset. Makes one wonder why he felt he needed to resort to cheating? GREAT isn't good enough? Does one feel the need to jeopardize a career and the game to be the GREATEST?


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  13. #73
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    looks like tomorrow game could be a washout unless they move the game up to like 11:00am suppose to be a rainy afternoon

  14. #74
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    Stanton was balanced and crushed that.. if he starts getting hot, everyone is in trouble
    Last edited by dayners81; 10-01-2022 at 02:06 PM.

  15. #75
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    Those Bonds/ Judge swing comps aren't far off.. lot of similarities there

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