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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Rama View Post
    You told me I cannot assume anything, and then you countered my argument with an assumption. Your assumption is that it would have made things significantly harder. I had statistics to back up the reasoning behind my assumption, which was more of an educated guess based on extrapolation from current statistics. Yours is pure conjecture with no statistical backing. Is it possible that lack of integration with the negro leagues affected Ruth's statistics, I guess so. I'd like to see something more than conjecture if you're going to convince me of that though. A quick search taught me that overall the pitching in the negro leagues was seen as weaker than the majors, and that the competition was approximated at a Triple-A level. Sure, there were stars in the league that would have potentially made things more difficult on Ruth the 1/60 games that he faced them, such as Satchel Page. On the other hand, there were not many players in the league that would have been better than what he was facing already. There were 10 negro league teams. The talent on these teams ranged from High-A type talent all the way up to a couple of major league talents mixed in. Colin, if you can show me some history/data that supports your view, I'm all ears. I'm always down to learn. Everything I'm reading is in support of my view though.
    Where did I make an assumption as a foundational part of my argument? I was using your assumption but taking the opposite end of where that assumption could land to illustrate how making arguments based on flimsy assumptions is inaccurate.

    You're assuming the percentage of black players in the league during Ruth's era would've been equal to or less than the current proportion we see. First off, the narrative around the league's racial complexity has for years been about the decreasing number of black players. I assume you know that as well as anyone posting here, so using today's numbers is disingenuous, at best.

    But if you dive into the actual numbers ... from 1958-2008 the percentage of black players in the league was over 7%; from 1962-2004 it was over 10%; from 1971-1996 it was over 15%; and from 1979-1987 hovered around 18%.

    So using a fair sampling of data it's clear you're cherry picking stats to try and prove your argument.

    My point is simply that if black players weren't banned from the league, then those numbers could've been even higher. Again, that's piggybacking on your assumption. The argument I made was that a batter having to face a larger variety of pitchers, no matter their perceived talent, inherently makes the batter's task at hand harder. (Especially in a day where pitcher's stats weren't recorded as stringently.)

    There are certainly many what ifs at play, but the bottom line is Ruth was going against a limited group of talent. We can't say how some of these Negro League players could've developed had they been in the MLB so we have to throw out the point that they weren't as good as the MLB talent.

    I'll say it again -- I'm not trying to discredit Ruth's accomplishments but pointing out that there are contributing factors to his record, as there are with the other guys who are mentioned in the same breath. To give Ruth a pass while excoriating the other guys isn't fair.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by colinskik View Post
    Where did I make an assumption as a foundational part of my argument? I was using your assumption but taking the opposite end of where that assumption could land to illustrate how making arguments based on flimsy assumptions is inaccurate.

    You're assuming the percentage of black players in the league during Ruth's era would've been equal to or less than the current proportion we see. First off, the narrative around the league's racial complexity has for years been about the decreasing number of black players. I assume you know that as well as anyone posting here, so using today's numbers is disingenuous, at best.

    But if you dive into the actual numbers ... from 1958-2008 the percentage of black players in the league was over 7%; from 1962-2004 it was over 10%; from 1971-1996 it was over 15%; and from 1979-1987 hovered around 18%.

    So using a fair sampling of data it's clear you're cherry picking stats to try and prove your argument.

    My point is simply that if black players weren't banned from the league, then those numbers could've been even higher. Again, that's piggybacking on your assumption. The argument I made was that a batter having to face a larger variety of pitchers, no matter their perceived talent, inherently makes the batter's task at hand harder. (Especially in a day where pitcher's stats weren't recorded as stringently.)

    There are certainly many what ifs at play, but the bottom line is Ruth was going against a limited group of talent. We can't say how some of these Negro League players could've developed had they been in the MLB so we have to throw out the point that they weren't as good as the MLB talent.

    I'll say it again -- I'm not trying to discredit Ruth's accomplishments but pointing out that there are contributing factors to his record, as there are with the other guys who are mentioned in the same breath. To give Ruth a pass while excoriating the other guys isn't fair.
    I used today's numbers. That's not cherry picking. It was a quick google search saying what the percentage was. I didn't look back at the other numbers, and didn't know about the narrative that the number of African Americans in baseball was decreasing. Cherry picking suggests I knew about the other data and disregarded it. That's simply not the case. Your assertion that I was cherry picking numbers is yet another assumption.

    Regardless of whether the number is 7% or 18%, it doesn't change much. That's still a very low percentage of players who would be above league average enough to impact Ruth's numbers. Also, as mentioned above, the percentage of those players that would have been pitchers during Ruth's time would have been next to 0, with a few notable exceptions.

    I also disagree with your assertion that seeing different pitchers is a disadvantage, unless those different pitchers are good. Facing Gerrit Cole and then Justin Verlander is different than facing Javier Vazquez and then Sergio Mitre. To put it another way, I'd rather face Javy Vazquez, Sergio Mitre, Carl Pavano, and then Sidney Ponson than Gerrit Cole, Gerrit Cole, Gerrit Cole, and then Gerrit Cole again. Variety for the sake of variety doesn't make things more difficult on hitters. Just ask any relief pitcher who's ERA has ballooned.

    You said it yourself, we can't say how any of the Negro League Players would have fared in the MLB. So why would you speculate and assume that Ruth's numbers would have been worse if they did? So, not only is the foundation of your argument an assumption, but your whole argument is an assumption. Remember, I'm not the one who brought this up, you are. I'm simply disproving it as pure speculation with no actual substance.
    Last edited by Phoba Rama; 09-30-2022 at 06:26 PM.

  3. #48
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    judge will probably finish the season with a over 10 war which would the first yankee since mantle in 1961 and he still has a shot at the triple crown..does not appear that he will have over 400 total bases or slug over 700 due to the fact he is being walked so much he wont hit enough home runs he would need 4 more home runs to get over 400 total bases..

  4. #49
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    How long and hard Aaron Judge can hit a home run?
    October 1, 2022
    Michael Bennington
    https://pinstripesnation.com/how-lon...mpaign=twitter


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    How long and hard Aaron Judge can hit a home run?
    October 1, 2022
    Michael Bennington
    https://pinstripesnation.com/how-lon...mpaign=twitter
    judge hit 4 500 foot home runs at the 2017 all star home run contest..

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    How long and hard Aaron Judge can hit a home run?
    October 1, 2022
    Michael Bennington
    https://pinstripesnation.com/how-lon...mpaign=twitter
    Heehee


    Long and hard



    Ignorance is bliss

  7. #52
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    Cone quoted a stat from a Jason Stark article during the game. In the second half of the season while the Yankees were struggling, all players other than Judge had a collective OPS+ of .653, while Judge had an OPS+ of 1.325, more than double the rest of the team average. If that isn't an MVP that carries a team, then nobody is ever an MVP. That's the definition of MVP.

    He also gave another stat about runs scored. In baseball history, only 3 players have ever led their league in runs scored by more than 30...Babe Ruth, Ricky Henderson and Aaron Judge (provided he maintains his lead on Altuve today).

    My dream would be that he goes 5 for 5 today with at least 9 total bases and wins the batting title and gets to 400 total bases.
    Last edited by johnnyi; 10-05-2022 at 10:01 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    Cone quoted a stat from a Jason Stark article during the game. In the second half of the season while the Yankees were struggling, all players other than Judge had a collective OPS+ of .653, while Judge had an OPS+ of 1.325, more than double the rest of the team average. If that isn't an MVP that carries a team, then nobody is ever an MVP. That's the definition of MVP.

    He also gave another stat about runs scored. In baseball history, only 3 players have ever led their league in runs scored by more than 30...Babe Ruth, Ricky Henderson and Aaron Judge (provided he maintains his lead on Altus today).

    My dream would be that he goes 5 for 5 today with at least 9 total bases and wins the batting title and gets to 400 total bases.
    That would be amazing



    Ignorance is bliss

  9. #54
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    With the question of whether Judge will play in Wednesday's season finale still up in the air after he grinded through the past two weeks in pursuit of his 62nd homer and with nothing at stake for the Yankees in their final game, he'd need to have a pretty much perfect day while Arraez falters to claim the batting title. Here is a non-exhaustive list of examples of potential outcomes that would result in Judge winning the first Triple Crown in baseball since 2012 and the 13th in AL/NL history:

    Judge goes 4-for-4 (.315331), Arraez goes 1-for-4 (.314545)
    Judge goes 4-for-4 (.315331), Arraez goes 0-for-4 (.312747)
    Judge goes 3-for-4 (.313589), Arraez goes 0-for-4 (.312747)
    Judge goes 3-for-3 (.314136), Arraez goes 0-for-4 (.312747)

    Batting average, entering Wednesday:
    Arraez: .31501 (172-for-546)
    Judge: .31052 (177-for-570)

    Here's a breakdown of where Judge stands:

    Tuesday's stats: 2-for-7 (in a doubleheader)
    Last 10 games: 7-for-28 (.250), 2 HR, 3 RBIs
    Next game: Today at TEX, 4:05 ET

    AL ranks

    Batting average: .311 -- 2nd in AL
    Home runs: 62 -- 1st
    Runs batted in: 131 -- 1st

    https://www.mlb.com/news/aaron-judge-triple-crown-chase


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  10. #55
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  11. #56
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    Dec 2011
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    Fan unsure what to do with Judge’s home-run ball, which could be worth $2m

    Yankees slugger broke American League record on Tuesday
    Most expensive home-run ball of all-time sold for $3m in 1999

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ll-mlb-yankees


    Sell the Team, HAL!

  12. #57
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    As Judge rounded third and headed home, Kay said something I thought was very clever. He said "case closed." That was my favorite moment of his homerun call.

    My favorite moment of the homerun itself was when the huge smile came over Judge's face. He deserves this moment more than anyone. He must be so relieved. Haven't seen him smile like that for weeks. All the other smiles seemed forced. I'm sure he was so anxious about this for so long.

  13. #58
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  14. #59
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    Sell the Team, HAL!

  15. #60
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    Excellent Judge compilation video by Nick Tyrell 2X Emmy winner for the Yankees.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1577487066090315781


    Sell the Team, HAL!

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