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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    This was my fear about not really fitting together. Really hope they figure something out because the start of the season has been a major disappointment.

    I agree on moving dlo and have said it for a while. I hope there are moves that can be made in the coming months because I think we need to mix it up some still.


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    I haven't even been watching the Wolves the last 2ish weeks. Not worth my time.

    DLo has to go, no question. Ant I had hoped would start assuming the role of our star player, but for whatever reason, he just doesn't seem to bring consistent effort/passion. This means KAT is still asked to lead, and I think we can all agree, any team with KAT as a major part of it, won't be very good. While I think he could be Chris Bosh in Miami for a team, we don't have LeBron/Wade, and I was hoping Ant would start to assume that role.

    Our PG/SG/SF, are collectively shooting 5.8-16.5 from three (35%). For a team that is top 12 in threes attempted, this is terrible. What I don't get is, if you go and trade for Gobert, and have a starting lineup of 2 centers, and a 6'10" Jaden, why are we not living in the paint more often? We shoot a ton of 3s, can't make them, and what this does is negate that height advantage offensively, AND create long rebounds which our bigs don't have access to, and allows the other team to get out in transition with 2 bigs trying to keep up defensively. Like, the coaching is just insane to me. We have multiple possessions a game where the ball never goes inside the 3 point line on offense, and we have KAT and Gobert on the floor.

    The entitlement of the team stands out, as it's clear they just assumed greatness. None of our guys have any clue what it takes to be great as a team. Not one.

    All in all, this year couldn't be more Minnesota Mens sports if it tried. Finally expectations, and we look like we will disappoint emphatically.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  2. #17
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    oh, and we alllllllllllllllllllll knew Wiggins would be maxed, and it nearly crushed our fan base. If they can't trade D-Lo, I would bet nearly anything they extend him. Which we all agree (I hope) would be a massive mistake. Let him walk if no takers at the deadline. I would rather have JMac at PG going into next year than another year of DLo.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #18
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    KAT out 4-6 weeks, and honestly, I expect us to be better, as we now won't have 2 bigs getting in everyones way.

    This season is slowly slipping away. I am soooooooooooo sick of hearing "we will figure it out". We are over 1/4 through the season. The only saving grace, is the west is stacked so close together, versus 4-5 teams already running away with 55+ winning seasons.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #19
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    Feels like a lost season, even with the standings close-ish.

    Nothing about this team is promising, or positive. This board says it all, it used to be a happening place, but of course the Wolves are putting out a pathetic product, fans are leaving, and this place is a ghost town.

    I miss the days where we sucked, but at least had draft picks and hope. This may be a tough 5 year span for Wolves fans...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Feels like a lost season, even with the standings close-ish.

    Nothing about this team is promising, or positive. This board says it all, it used to be a happening place, but of course the Wolves are putting out a pathetic product, fans are leaving, and this place is a ghost town.

    I miss the days where we sucked, but at least had draft picks and hope. This may be a tough 5 year span for Wolves fans...
    This team is sunk. I hated this YOLO all in move. Why is it that when we finally get to a decent place we decide to trade off our assets and mess with team chemistry? The butler trade we literally did the exact same thing. At this point the only way to do anything now is to trade everyone and restart around ANT and hope he's cool with it. It looks like the most we will get back for Russel is spare parts from a semi equally desperate team.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    This team is sunk. I hated this YOLO all in move. Why is it that when we finally get to a decent place we decide to trade off our assets and mess with team chemistry? The butler trade we literally did the exact same thing. At this point the only way to do anything now is to trade everyone and restart around ANT and hope he's cool with it. It looks like the most we will get back for Russel is spare parts from a semi equally desperate team.
    Ant making progress is a nice step, but this team clearly needs to design the offense around him moving forward. He is literally our only hope of all this working.

    I get we need to hang for the long game, but this trade is not paying dividends at all to date. We need to beef up our shooting badly, and we are clearly a couple of roster balancing moves away from being even remotely passable for a good team.

    I would not be opposed to trading KAT at all, but we won't. Russell is playing really well, hopefully he reverts back to his offense stopping turnover machine, so he doesn't dupe our FO into extending him.

    Idk, we need a heartbeat, shooting, and for KAT to become something he isn't. That is a tough ask...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  7. #22
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    I would toss KAT to Portland for Lillard. In a heartbeat. I don't care if Lillard is 32

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #23
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    It seems all of the teams in the West are "going to figure it out" at this point. 4 West teams are tanking, only 3 are over .600. It's only 3.5 games between 5th and 12th.

    I really like some of the younger guys on the Wolves roster, I have no faith in KAT, Russell, or Gobert being the sort of smart team-first grinders teams need to win.

    Teams that have gone all-in to win always have to pay for it eventually ... it's still possible this team puts it together and ends up winning a title over the next few years though. That team leader/grinder is needed, and maybe it comes from this roster or from a big trade.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It seems all of the teams in the West are "going to figure it out" at this point. 4 West teams are tanking, only 3 are over .600. It's only 3.5 games between 5th and 12th.

    I really like some of the younger guys on the Wolves roster, I have no faith in KAT, Russell, or Gobert being the sort of smart team-first grinders teams need to win.

    Teams that have gone all-in to win always have to pay for it eventually ... it's still possible this team puts it together and ends up winning a title over the next few years though. That team leader/grinder is needed, and maybe it comes from this roster or from a big trade.
    Ultimately, many of us expected a better team to date. There is a long game, but its clear that KAT, Ant, Gobert, and McDaniels are the guys our FO deems untouchable. Past that, we should be looking for:

    1. Upgrade at PG
    2. Shooting
    3. Heartbeat player (Beverley for example)

    Trust me, many of us would love to move KAT for picks/players, but that is likely a pipe dream.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Ultimately, many of us expected a better team to date. There is a long game, but its clear that KAT, Ant, Gobert, and McDaniels are the guys our FO deems untouchable. Past that, we should be looking for:

    1. Upgrade at PG
    2. Shooting
    3. Heartbeat player (Beverley for example)

    Trust me, many of us would love to move KAT for picks/players, but that is likely a pipe dream.
    I just don't get McDaniels. He scores horribly unless our main scorers are out then he suddenly decides maybe he should play? I don't think his defense is anything to write home about. The biggest mistake we made was trading beverly (next to trading for gobert)

    Our team last year had chemistry and an identity. We should of stuck with what worked and let this team grow together.

    Ant- he seems to want to force offense. I get that great players do that at times but he seems to just decide this possession is mine and I am not going to play in the flow of the offense. Way too many long twos. You can tell when he wants to shoot a three because he starts to severely over dribble to get his shot.

    Deangelo- we need to keep him. I think he is going to come into his own. We cannot afford to stack one failed trade(Wiggins) into another failed trade and get spare parts back. We actually honestly need to extend him. If we do trade anyone it needs to be Kat. I think we should build around Gobert/Ant combo like they had in utah.

    Ironically the EXACT player we need is still on the Jazz roster in Clarkson... if we could get him this team would start to be legit. Too bad they will want 3 more future draft picks for him. I wish we could of got him on the gobert trade when his stock was(relatively) low.

  11. #26
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    Imagine a lineup of:

    Pat Bev
    Russell
    Ant
    McDaniels
    Gobert

  12. #27
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    Pat Bev has been mostly hot garbage on the Lakers.

    What you needed was Brogdon this last off-season, but doing that move would indicate the team was done with Russell.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    I just don't get McDaniels. He scores horribly unless our main scorers are out then he suddenly decides maybe he should play? I don't think his defense is anything to write home about. The biggest mistake we made was trading beverly (next to trading for gobert)

    Our team last year had chemistry and an identity. We should of stuck with what worked and let this team grow together.

    Ant- he seems to want to force offense. I get that great players do that at times but he seems to just decide this possession is mine and I am not going to play in the flow of the offense. Way too many long twos. You can tell when he wants to shoot a three because he starts to severely over dribble to get his shot.

    Deangelo- we need to keep him. I think he is going to come into his own. We cannot afford to stack one failed trade(Wiggins) into another failed trade and get spare parts back. We actually honestly need to extend him. If we do trade anyone it needs to be Kat. I think we should build around Gobert/Ant combo like they had in utah.

    Ironically the EXACT player we need is still on the Jazz roster in Clarkson... if we could get him this team would start to be legit. Too bad they will want 3 more future draft picks for him. I wish we could of got him on the gobert trade when his stock was(relatively) low.
    I generally respect your opinion, and think you offer great insight on a regular basis.

    But, I disagree with a number of things here:

    1. Jaden is already an elite defender, and on his way to a perennial all NBA defender. He still fouls too much, but is being given leeway by refs now, makes life very difficult for any offensive player without needing help, protects the rim, closes out, and every defensive metric there is shows you what the eyes see- the dude will be an elite defender. Scoring wise, he is limited, but you are right, when forced he finally shows up. Hopefully he can settle into a consistent 15-6 guy who defends.

    2. Ant started slow in each of his first 3 seasons. While he isn't a good enough 3 point shooter to warrant his number of attempts, overall, for 21 years old, you don't get much more complete as an offensive player, and specifically a scorer. Ant's path to stardom lies in making sure he continues the trend from the last month and gets to the line 8-10 times a night, and that he becomes a consistent defender.

    3. D-Lo has to go, no questions asked. We can't fall in love with a 20 game spurt, only to watch him go cold for 20 games and offer literally nothing but ball stopping. He has to go.

    Finally, I do agree trading KAT would be our best option. He just isn't nearly as good as his numbers or salary suggest. Ant, Jaden, and everyone else, stop moving when KAT plays. Defensively, I can't think of a worse "star" in the league on that end. And at his age/numbers, we could easily fill a LOT of needs, and get some picks back. Will it happen? Of course not, we are the Wolves...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Pat Bev has been mostly hot garbage on the Lakers.

    What you needed was Brogdon this last off-season, but doing that move would indicate the team was done with Russell.
    Beverley works perfect here though, he is infectious, and keeps this team with a heartbeat.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I generally respect your opinion, and think you offer great insight on a regular basis.

    But, I disagree with a number of things here:

    1. Jaden is already an elite defender, and on his way to a perennial all NBA defender. He still fouls too much, but is being given leeway by refs now, makes life very difficult for any offensive player without needing help, protects the rim, closes out, and every defensive metric there is shows you what the eyes see- the dude will be an elite defender. Scoring wise, he is limited, but you are right, when forced he finally shows up. Hopefully he can settle into a consistent 15-6 guy who defends.

    2. Ant started slow in each of his first 3 seasons. While he isn't a good enough 3 point shooter to warrant his number of attempts, overall, for 21 years old, you don't get much more complete as an offensive player, and specifically a scorer. Ant's path to stardom lies in making sure he continues the trend from the last month and gets to the line 8-10 times a night, and that he becomes a consistent defender.

    3. D-Lo has to go, no questions asked. We can't fall in love with a 20 game spurt, only to watch him go cold for 20 games and offer literally nothing but ball stopping. He has to go.

    Finally, I do agree trading KAT would be our best option. He just isn't nearly as good as his numbers or salary suggest. Ant, Jaden, and everyone else, stop moving when KAT plays. Defensively, I can't think of a worse "star" in the league on that end. And at his age/numbers, we could easily fill a LOT of needs, and get some picks back. Will it happen? Of course not, we are the Wolves...
    Let's talk about Jaden a bit here. His defense might be elite but it gets lost with how poor our overall defense really is. You can be a great 1 on 1 defender but overall our team is pitiful on defense. I think a lot of this has to do with the switching teams are doing between KAT/Gobert. This leaves us open big time for screen and rolls and uncontested 3's. It is very hard to cover swing and cross court passes and screens when you have two big 7 footers that can't keep up laterally or against a heavy passing offense. Golden State was the perfect example of this earlier on in the year. They just passed the ball to death. Jaden's defense really cant shine in this.

    On offense Jaden is a massive liability 9/10. He only seems to play when he thinks that he "has to" score. He plays great when we are down to our 2nd and third string players and he takes it upon himself. He seems to just want to float like wiggins otherwise. Honestly he is maybe a slight upgrade over Josh Okogie but nothing that has more then fringe 3 and d player potential.

    Dlo can work with the correct starting guard opposite of him. Unfortunately we traded that perfect guard away for a bag of peanuts as a throw in. Beverly and Dlo were the perfect combination together. Dlo is another one of those players that when we trade him he will go off and have a massive season. While we may not like him all the time we can have success with him.

    Kat and Gobert are both playoff flops when it comes to their teams. Neither makes a difference because they both have direct weaknesses that teams exploit. That is why this trade is so bad and will continue to be a colossal screw up. To be honest I truthfully believe that if Reid leaves he is going to become a complete animal. If we gave him consistent minutes he might put up numbers like towns. Albeit he might not be quiet towns but he has shown he can be more then consistent. I am really scared of losing him. He also does not get nearly enough playing time.

    I was super excited to see Nowell get some minutes but he really has not stepped up. Trading away Beasley really exposed him as a incomplete player that is not ready for rotational minutes. Also where the F did prince from the playoffs go? Did he just have a spurt and now he is terrible? I don't get it.

    The player I really wanted to get to go with Russel was Dejounte Murray. I thought he was a perfect combination for us.

    Murray
    Russel
    Ant
    Vanderbilt/McDaniels
    Towns
    Last edited by Twolves88; 12-23-2022 at 11:52 PM.

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