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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Ahhh I see, I guess that's one way to look at it I guess. I don't view him as top 10 personally but if he does provide that impact then it's a win for us we will be legit contenders and probably even be likely for a title if Ant also develops a little more. I wasn't aware he ranked that highly tbh.
    Trust me Iím right there with you. But then I went and looked at his advanced stats and was pleasantly surprised. I never viewed him and still donít view him as a top 10 player, but if he can provide the impact that his advanced stats seem to suggest, then as I said, this will be a good proof of advanced stats right here and I canít wait to see the outcome

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles24 View Post
    Been awhile.

    Nice to see the Wolves trying something. Besides Herschel, are there any blockbuster trades where the draft picks were actually better than the star player? Usually getting the known talent is a good bet.

    I honestly dont know who is on the roster any more but as long as KAT is on the team the Wolves wont win a title.
    Lol

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    gross
    Haha

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I think it is overrated but is still an issue of concern to note. I am not so sure we will just beat up on teams going small like people think. That's an aspect both Gobert and Towns have struggled with at time is taking advantage when they should on smaller players. I would certainly hope it limits the effect and amount teams can though for sure but it still can be something to work in spurts. I also am not sure we have great defenders around him really. Mcdaniels is easily the best even though he is young and Ant is solid but inconsistent. I don't think Towns/Dlo are very good. This means we either have a meh defender (or our young inconsistent star we probably don't want in this role) as the point of attack defender or our only good one outside of Gobert will fill this spot. I think once You use Mcdaniels in that role the perimeter defenders outside of that are more of an issue than a positive. It shouldn't be horrible as Jazz only really had Conley and Royce as positive defensive starters and they still had a top 9 defense but we are talking about taking a massive jump to top of the league hopefully so there are still questions about it.

    End of the day I agree the expectations need to be that high given what we gave up. We now need to see if Gobert truly has that top impact and if it continues throughout the playoffs even as teams try and use matchups to their advantage like we saw in the past. I think there is a reasonable chance it pans out pretty well, I just have more questions on if it actually works to the level of those expectations I guess. I think he is very good just not sure top 10 impact is what we will truly get with our team.
    for sure. The only concern I have in all of this, is one of our big men will absolutely, positively, have to guard a shooter for stretches of time come playoffs. I am hopeful we can use our wings to switch relentlessly, so we can keep Towns off of a bad matchup.

    I think we all agree as well- we KNOW what KAT/Gobert are. Ant, and even Jaden to a degree, determine whether we are a 2-3 round playoff team, or if we play in the finals. If Ant can become Wade with a jumper, these conversations don't matter, because we will be great.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Trust me Iím right there with you. But then I went and looked at his advanced stats and was pleasantly surprised. I never viewed him and still donít view him as a top 10 player, but if he can provide the impact that his advanced stats seem to suggest, then as I said, this will be a good proof of advanced stats right here and I canít wait to see the outcome
    he isn't a top 10 player, but his impact directly results in winning. Having a one man defense can't be appreciated enough, seriously. Finch's passing lane aggressiveness, chasing shooters, ball pressuring defense will look even better now with Gobert there to clean up the mistakes. We were elite at:

    1. passing lane deflections
    2. steals
    3. Forcing turnovers (league leader)
    4. Blocking shots

    Weaknesses on defense:
    1. Rebounding the ball on a miss
    2. FG% allowed at the rim


    I mean, Gobert's strengths are literally our weaknesses, while taking nothing away from our strengths from last year (with the exception of our point of attack pressure with Bev gone).

    Our defense should go from 13, to 1-5.
    Last edited by Hawkeye15; 07-14-2022 at 03:12 PM.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    for sure. The only concern I have in all of this, is one of our big men will absolutely, positively, have to guard a shooter for stretches of time come playoffs. I am hopeful we can use our wings to switch relentlessly, so we can keep Towns off of a bad matchup.

    I think we all agree as well- we KNOW what KAT/Gobert are. Ant, and even Jaden to a degree, determine whether we are a 2-3 round playoff team, or if we play in the finals. If Ant can become Wade with a jumper, these conversations don't matter, because we will be great.
    Ya it will be interesting to see what happens with Towns, I think we can expect they use Rudy to protect paint as much as possible. I think Gobert has actually been pretty good at handling the perimeter but it feels like a waste when we know why he was brought in/what we lack so it's gonna be Towns imo.

    While we know what they are to an extent we do need to prove they can have that impact next to each other still. I agree though that Ant and even Jaden need to keep improving as well. If the fit works and talent can be maximized with this unit while they take that step we should be right there in the mix.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Ya it will be interesting to see what happens with Towns, I think we can expect they use Rudy to protect paint as much as possible. I think Gobert has actually been pretty good at handling the perimeter but it feels like a waste when we know why he was brought in/what we lack so it's gonna be Towns imo.

    While we know what they are to an extent we do need to prove they can have that impact next to each other still. I agree though that Ant and even Jaden need to keep improving as well. If the fit works and talent can be maximized with this unit while they take that step we should be right there in the mix.
    let me ask you, we know our time to pounce was now, with cap space next summer (that was real for now but probably wouldn't be). What would you have done, assuming we obviously wanted to keep our core 4, were willing to send out anyone else, and were willing to send picks.

    Do you think there was a better option than Gobert? Or, would you have waited longer to make a move?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #53
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    Rivers signed with us. Solid pickup. I would of preferred to have Pat Bev still but we can work with this. Im assuming we are going to see him and Jordan together on the floor sometimes togther?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    let me ask you, we know our time to pounce was now, with cap space next summer (that was real for now but probably wouldn't be). What would you have done, assuming we obviously wanted to keep our core 4, were willing to send out anyone else, and were willing to send picks.

    Do you think there was a better option than Gobert? Or, would you have waited longer to make a move?
    I never really thought creating cap space was a great first option as I think I noted before. So our window is moreso based on Ant to me and with that in mind I would have aimed for another young stud player to add with him long term as I mentioned earlier. I think so long as you are getting value in trades you maintain flexibility as well. It's always tough to say for sure because we don't know the cost for us or if certain guys would possibly even move though (otherwise, we should have gotten Luka!).

    I mentioned Mitchell earlier in the offseason and it sounds like he could possibly move. I think he is likely valued higher than Gobert but that we also overpaid as has been covered. If there was a way to get the longer term piece like that instead though with the assets used I would. Dlo also could have possibly been used as an asset in some way to make it work.

    If we didn't do that I would have liked to try and turn Dlo into Murray with some little stuff added on our end. Keep a lot of assets for an additional move while converting a player I don't think works quite right for one that could. I think we still would have needed a frontcourt addition but we would have most of our assets and he also fits the timeline mentioned. He would have been a good defender on the perimeter (more important without Gobert here but still) that would be better at running the offense with talent around him imo.

    I also would have no issues waiting either. I think KD is likely out of our range for various reasons but there could easily be guys made available as other moves happen over the next year or so. To me the key this offseason should have been move on from Dlo and look for a big move to consolidate preferably with a guy like Mitchell. This doesn't mean I hate Gobert though or think because my ideas didn't happen we are doomed or anything like that. I actually think it is closer to my general thought process than usual because while the timeline is slightly more advanced we actually consolidated assets for another stud.

    My biggest issue was mostly value thinking back and the risk it creates. I question if Gobert is really a top 10 impact player in the playoffs when it matters and I honestly don't think I have seen this much capital move in a trade before off top of my head. He's older so his individual value isn't going to be moving positive if they are wrong and we won't have much assets for a while when Ant really hits his prime. The more I think about the fit and ways it could work I think you can argue it as worth the risk though.

    At the end of the day I don't think their was a clear cut perfect or better route with who has moved yet for what. I think we could have made other moves to improve somewhat with more flexibility and a longer timeline but none that have the potential to make us as good as this one can if everything is perfect. It's possible a young guy like Mitchell or someone else moves you can argue is a better option. It's also possible this works out though and as I get at the odds I see it doing so have improved since my initial pessimism (driven more by value than anything I think).

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    Rivers signed with us. Solid pickup. I would of preferred to have Pat Bev still but we can work with this. Im assuming we are going to see him and Jordan together on the floor sometimes togther?
    Rivers is more of a 2 really. I think he is going to get 10-15 mpg, and is a vet presence who has seen playoff games, which never hurts.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I never really thought creating cap space was a great first option as I think I noted before. So our window is moreso based on Ant to me and with that in mind I would have aimed for another young stud player to add with him long term as I mentioned earlier. I think so long as you are getting value in trades you maintain flexibility as well. It's always tough to say for sure because we don't know the cost for us or if certain guys would possibly even move though (otherwise, we should have gotten Luka!).

    I mentioned Mitchell earlier in the offseason and it sounds like he could possibly move. I think he is likely valued higher than Gobert but that we also overpaid as has been covered. If there was a way to get the longer term piece like that instead though with the assets used I would. Dlo also could have possibly been used as an asset in some way to make it work.

    If we didn't do that I would have liked to try and turn Dlo into Murray with some little stuff added on our end. Keep a lot of assets for an additional move while converting a player I don't think works quite right for one that could. I think we still would have needed a frontcourt addition but we would have most of our assets and he also fits the timeline mentioned. He would have been a good defender on the perimeter (more important without Gobert here but still) that would be better at running the offense with talent around him imo.

    I also would have no issues waiting either. I think KD is likely out of our range for various reasons but there could easily be guys made available as other moves happen over the next year or so. To me the key this offseason should have been move on from Dlo and look for a big move to consolidate preferably with a guy like Mitchell. This doesn't mean I hate Gobert though or think because my ideas didn't happen we are doomed or anything like that. I actually think it is closer to my general thought process than usual because while the timeline is slightly more advanced we actually consolidated assets for another stud.

    My biggest issue was mostly value thinking back and the risk it creates. I question if Gobert is really a top 10 impact player in the playoffs when it matters and I honestly don't think I have seen this much capital move in a trade before off top of my head. He's older so his individual value isn't going to be moving positive if they are wrong and we won't have much assets for a while when Ant really hits his prime. The more I think about the fit and ways it could work I think you can argue it as worth the risk though.

    At the end of the day I don't think their was a clear cut perfect or better route with who has moved yet for what. I think we could have made other moves to improve somewhat with more flexibility and a longer timeline but none that have the potential to make us as good as this one can if everything is perfect. It's possible a young guy like Mitchell or someone else moves you can argue is a better option. It's also possible this works out though and as I get at the odds I see it doing so have improved since my initial pessimism (driven more by value than anything I think).
    Mitchell overlaps what Ant does though, is that smart to do? Murray I agree, I would have preferred him actually. But as you mentioned, we would have still needed more bigs that can play.

    Murray to me was the stronger target, but perhaps we wanted to keep D-Lo with the addition of Gobert in mind?

    Anywho, we agree that the time was now. We got an all NBA player, but was it the right one? We shall see..

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Mitchell overlaps what Ant does though, is that smart to do? Murray I agree, I would have preferred him actually. But as you mentioned, we would have still needed more bigs that can play.

    Murray to me was the stronger target, but perhaps we wanted to keep D-Lo with the addition of Gobert in mind?

    Anywho, we agree that the time was now. We got an all NBA player, but was it the right one? We shall see..
    I also feel like Murray was the perfect fit at point for this team, however, in the short-term I think Gobert may raise our ceiling more. I still have no idea how the spacing will work and I really hope Finch is as good as I think he can be, because this can fall apart like a house of cards in an instant. For the same package Gobert > Mitchel as a team piece, not as an asset, obviously. I like Mitchel but he and Edwards are literally the same player on offense and both need the ball a ton in their hands.

    If I could have anyone on this team(think 2K GM), it would be Giannis or Tatum next to KAT at the 4, Jaden and Ant where they are and a low usage PG at the 1(like Tyus). I mean, if we go dream PG for this team, it would be SGA for me, personally.
    Last edited by Oefarmy2005; 07-15-2022 at 11:52 AM.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Mitchell overlaps what Ant does though, is that smart to do? Murray I agree, I would have preferred him actually. But as you mentioned, we would have still needed more bigs that can play.

    Murray to me was the stronger target, but perhaps we wanted to keep D-Lo with the addition of Gobert in mind?

    Anywho, we agree that the time was now. We got an all NBA player, but was it the right one? We shall see..
    I think so because they both can shoot/space with their own gravity and the way they overlap is by being that elite playmaker that can both score at any level and pass to open guys. Look at what the Tatum/Brown combo recently did for example. The other aspect and reason I like it more is he has more value and will long term, as you noted every move has risk. This would be much less risky because if it didn't work the easy out is moving one of them in a few years. We won't have that option with Gobert in the same way. I think you can argue Gobert makes us just as good if not more likely to win right now but in a couple years I think it shifts to Mitchell and stays that way going on.

    Murray felt like almost the perfect fit if we want to go that team building route. I think we had to choose between Murray and Gobert given how much we gave up for him. I don't think Murray is as valuable as Mitchell but he fit better and also fits that timeline I am getting at a bit better. He was a much cheaper option than Mitchell or Gobert so I think an additional move in future with more assets available is possible this route too.

    At least we have a team really ready to compete this time even if Ant is very young still. It's a bit early but still makes some sense given how the team overall looked last year with Finch. If they want to choose this route over the others I might slightly disagree but I at least see the vision. That to me is truly contending in this window otherwise those other options would make more sense, obviously. So now we wait and see as you get at, they have a "talented" roster that has some questionable fits but if they bring it all together it has the chance to work.

    At the very least it's a more exciting time than almost any other in franchise history...

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