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  1. #1
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    Health Insurance

    Can you be "pro life", or even a "progressive", if you don't support overhauling our healthcare? Let alone demanding a single payer health system?

    Republicans like that healthcare is expensive. They like that so many Americans struggle to pay off medical debt. They like that a few people make massive amounts of money off of other people's illness. I honestly think they don't care that so many Americans needlessly die because of both a lack of coverage (Obamacare kinda tried) and the insane costs of health insurance (Obamacare utterly failed).

    What's the excuse for Dems? Has Joe Biden done anything to fix this problem? Do Dems actually think Obamacare is the best there is?

    An estimated 212,000 lives could've been saved in 2020 alone had we had universal healthcare.

    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2200536119

    Or maybe 338,000 lives during the whole pandemic.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...re-study-finds


    But hey. Dems. Keep shoveling out money to our military!

    Anyways. American healthcare insurance is a laughingstock amongst the developed world. It's the issue the most closely touches me. There are very few Dems on this site that support single payer/m4a/whatever. And obviously zero Republicans because they are brain-diseased and love how many Americans are suffering.

    I don't really have a question. I just hope the centrist Dems on this site that I like (which obviously doesn't include MrSpock) open their eyes eventually.

    So much wealth in this country....and most of us get less than nothing out of it.


    Hope everyone's well. Support better Democrats please. Support primary challengers to useless corporate Dems. Be better. That's all.
    HELLO

  2. #2
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    Are you suggesting people move away from the centre so that universal health care will occur?

  3. #3
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    I’m all for a change but just primarying all the Democrats is going to lead to more Republican victories. You elect whackobirds and you lose general elections.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I’m all for a change but just primarying all the Democrats is going to lead to more Republican victories. You elect whackobirds and you lose general elections.
    And so it goes…

    Just to add to ManRam’s post, our health care is not the only thing that makes us a laughingstock. I mean seriously: Donald Trump vs. Joe Biden? That’s the best this country can offer by way of leadership?

    But I digress. Universal Health Care. YES.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Are you suggesting people move away from the centre so that universal health care will occur?
    I would think it would be about one's own self-interest. Universal healthcare have proven itself to be better than what we have. Do you really want a profit-seeking business between you and your medical care? How many small businessmen will profit from it by not having to provide medical benefits to their employees? Plus those countries that have universal health-care were able to deal with the pandemic better than us. There is a reason why we had the highest death rate in the western world and we are a mega power. We got a crappy health care system.

    This isn't or should be about where you are on the political dial. It is the most efficient way to handle health care, period. Europeans don't crap on their healthcare because they see how bad ours is. Our pandemic death rate brought that home to them.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-17-2022 at 12:40 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  6. #6
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    You should see the money that comes pouring in to stop any candidate who push hard on medicare for all. Democrats will support anti-abortionists or anti-unionists over a medicare for all democratic candidate. Which creates it's own problems, cough, Manchin, but it shows it's political determination to stop any political candidate who push it.

    On the other hand, Universal healthcare, when broken down and explained, is widely support by those on both sides of the fence. The pubic is there, our leaders and their donors aren't.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I would think it would be about one's own self-interest. Universal healthcare have proven itself to be better than what we have. Do you really want a profit-seeking business between you and your medical care? How many small businessmen will profit from it by not having to provide medical benefits to their employees? Plus those countries that have universal health-care were able to deal with the pandemic better than us. There is a reason why we had the highest death rate in the western world and we are a mega power. We got a crappy health care system.

    This isn't or should be about where you are on the political dial. It is the most efficient way to handle health care, period. Europeans don't crap on their healthcare because they see how bad ours is. Our pandemic death rate brought that home to them.
    Thats why I am asking because he seems to criticize centrist/corporate democrats when political parties with similar ideologies have made universal healthcare work (either implement or maintain) around the world over and over again (including Canada when I am from).

    I never seen Manny here before but that post is a bit much.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I never seen Manny here before but that post is a bit much.
    That was my first post ever in this forum.

    But, in reality, there's just almost nothing in American politics right now that makes me feel hopeful or optimistic. So I don't bother posting here much.

    I just saw how we're about to add $45B more to our defense budget. And I know Biden will sign off on that in a heartbeat. Unlike many people here, there are actual real issues I care about. I don't feel like logging on here to argue with some of the dimmest reactionaries and culture warriors in the world. It's exhausting. It's impossible to even keep up with what right-wingers are freaking out about. I just healthcare man. I want a government that can do something more than cut taxes for the rich and spend infinite money on wars. It's not radical.

    We're still in a pandemic and Dems like Biden haven't inched even the slightest bit on healthcare. Not one bit. It's insane.
    Last edited by ManRam; 06-17-2022 at 01:50 PM.
    HELLO

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Thats why I am asking because he seems to criticize centrist/corporate democrats when political parties with similar ideologies have made universal healthcare work (either implement or maintain) around the world over and over again (including Canada when I am from).
    But that is — among others — his point.

    Universal Health Care should and would work here, but for one basic reason, it never gets the chance (sort of like that other universal thing that dies on the vine — Universal Background Checks).

    When it comes down to it, the US has two functioning parties: social/economic conservatives (Republicans) on the one hand and social liberals/economic conservatives (Democrats) on the other.

    I mean it makes complete sense: a democratic republic besotted by free-market capitalism (thank you, Ronald Reagan). What else are you going to expect?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    But that is — among others — his point.

    Universal Health Care should and would work here, but for one basic reason, it never gets the chance (sort of like that other universal thing that dies on the vine — Universal Background Checks).

    When it comes down to it, the US has two functioning parties: social/economic conservatives (Republicans) on the one hand and social liberals/economic conservatives (Democrats) on the other.

    I mean it makes complete sense: a democratic republic besotted by free-market capitalism (thank you, Ronald Reagan). What else are you going to expect?
    If the solution is to criticize those closer to being bipartisan, then the pendulm will continue to swing back and forth.

  11. #11
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    Progress in this country will not be achieved through bipartisan means. It's insane to think otherwise.
    HELLO

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Progress in this country will not be achieved through bipartisan means. It's insane to think otherwise.
    And how will progress be made? Via dictatorial edict?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    And how will progress be made? Via dictatorial edict?
    No. I'm not a right-winger.

    I hope it's achieved via organizing. Via a Democratic party that abandons it's subservience to their donor class. Achieved via electing progressives and proving that a government can work to serve the people.

    I'm a DEMOCRATIC socialist. Right-wingers need to stop pretending like they support democracy.

    Look...right-wing policy is deeply unpopular. The problem is, the only party we have (one of two) is beholden to corporate interests. No different than the right. If we actually organize and support progressives, I believe that's the only path forward. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party succeeds at nothing better than beating back progressives. So...yeah. That's why I said I have little hope. And why I'm not here. Because you're a smoothbrained reactionary and I'm beyond tired of talking about politics with your likes.
    Last edited by ManRam; 06-17-2022 at 05:21 PM.
    HELLO

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Progress in this country will not be achieved through bipartisan means. It's insane to think otherwise.
    That's because there's too many extremist on both sides who think they are the good guys and the other side is evil and is preventing progress.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    That's because there's too many extremist on both sides who think they are the good guys and the other side is evil and is preventing progress.
    Yeah dude. Bothsides are evil!

    My sides wants healthcare. To uplift the working class. To convert our energy from fossil fuels (which makes us beholden to Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.) to RENEWABLE energy (makes us beholden to American innovation). My side wants to stop the constant funneling of wealth to the select few and instead spread it out to all Americans.

    Tell me what the far-right wants and then #bothsides me again.

    There is NOTHING extreme about being a leftist. Save your anger for the anti-democratic/oligarchical right.
    HELLO

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