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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Do you know that words of even ancient times follow a standard?
    Did you know that the standard applies to more than just the Bible?

    That's the PROBLEM that you have.
    Do you know that I think this defense is nonsense?

    Of course not because you “ignore” some of us who prefer to use reason when examining the human condition.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Do you know that words of even ancient times follow a standard?
    Did you know that the standard applies to more than just the Bible?

    That's the PROBLEM that you have.
    I’m, sorry, what?

    The words of ancient times follow a standard and that standard applies to more than just the Bible?

    Care to elaborate on what you’re talking about in the context of the Bible needing to be 100 percent crystal clear so as to give EVERYONE the same exact interpretation?

    Thanks.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    I’m, sorry, what?

    The words of ancient times follow a standard and that standard applies to more than just the Bible?

    Care to elaborate on what you’re talking about in the context of the Bible needing to be 100 percent crystal clear so as to give EVERYONE the same exact interpretation?

    Thanks.
    Care to give examples on the dogma of the Bible that isn't clear?

    Languages (human, computer, etc) all follow their prescribed codes/rules/standards. Without it, you're not following the language.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Care to give examples on the dogma of the Bible that isn't clear?

    Languages (human, computer, etc) all follow their prescribed codes/rules/standards. Without it, you're not following the language.
    Rather than get into the weeds let me answer that this way: If the Bible is so clear, why do so many people offer different interpretations? Why are there different types of Christians with their own takes of Christianity and God and even Jesus?

    Why do so many believers disagree on so many things if the book from which is the basis of their belief is so crystal clear?

    Or are you now going to assert that Christians are a monolith? And if not, why not, since the Bible leaves no ambiguity for anything in it?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Rather than get into the weeds let me answer that this way: If the Bible is so clear, why do so many people offer different interpretations? Why are there different types of Christians with their own takes of Christianity and God and even Jesus?

    Why do so many believers disagree on so many things if the book from which is the basis of their belief is so crystal clear?

    Or are you now going to assert that Christians are a monolith? And if not, why not, since the Bible leaves no ambiguity for anything in it?
    I think you'd agree we are side tracking big time from the original thread. I will try my best to answer this one time though I am open if you want to start a new thread. You've been easy to speak with and miles better than anyone else in this section that do not hold Christian values.

    If the Bible is so clear, why do so many people offer different interpretations?
    * There really aren't different interpretations. People offer different to justify themselves instead of honoring the Lord.

    Why are there different types of Christians with their own takes of Christianity and God and even Jesus?
    * There no different takes on Christianity, God, or Jesus. We would not say that someone has a different take on Math if they said 2+2=5 or 2+2 = olive juice. For some reason people think it's ok to do that with religion, specifically the Christian religion almost exclusively. I think the reason is that of all the major monotheistic faiths, Christianity is the most peaceful.

    Why do so many believers disagree on so many things if the book from which is the basis of their belief is so crystal clear?
    * The disagreement is not dogma, it's personal choice. Music type, bible translation version, whether one has Awana or Patch the Pirate. None disagree on who Jesus is and what it takes to gain admission to Heaven when this life ends. Kind of goes back to 2+2=4 example from above.

    Or are you now going to assert that Christians are a monolith?
    * I don't think I would. I would say Christians are relationally based with the Lord first and each other second.

    And if not, why not, since the Bible leaves no ambiguity for anything in it?
    * I am not sure how to answer this as I don't see the correlation to the previous question.
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  6. #21
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    God, the creator of all, the all-knowing, all-powerful, is, of course, powerless in the face of... old language.


    "It is a grotesque parody of the bazaar at Marrakech, as if dumb animals had been granted only the amount of sentience required to mock humanity."

  7. #22
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    “There is no ambiguity in the Bible, all who interpret it differently than me are wrong”

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    “There is no ambiguity in the Bible, all who interpret it differently than me are wrong”
    The fun part of that is I'd bet good money that of the multiple people here that say exactly that, they also interpret things differently than each other.


    "It is a grotesque parody of the bazaar at Marrakech, as if dumb animals had been granted only the amount of sentience required to mock humanity."

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    I think you'd agree we are side tracking big time from the original thread. I will try my best to answer this one time though I am open if you want to start a new thread. You've been easy to speak with and miles better than anyone else in this section that do not hold Christian values.

    If the Bible is so clear, why do so many people offer different interpretations?
    * There really aren't different interpretations. People offer different to justify themselves instead of honoring the Lord.

    Why are there different types of Christians with their own takes of Christianity and God and even Jesus?
    * There no different takes on Christianity, God, or Jesus. We would not say that someone has a different take on Math if they said 2+2=5 or 2+2 = olive juice. For some reason people think it's ok to do that with religion, specifically the Christian religion almost exclusively. I think the reason is that of all the major monotheistic faiths, Christianity is the most peaceful.

    Why do so many believers disagree on so many things if the book from which is the basis of their belief is so crystal clear?
    * The disagreement is not dogma, it's personal choice. Music type, bible translation version, whether one has Awana or Patch the Pirate. None disagree on who Jesus is and what it takes to gain admission to Heaven when this life ends. Kind of goes back to 2+2=4 example from above.

    Or are you now going to assert that Christians are a monolith?
    * I don't think I would. I would say Christians are relationally based with the Lord first and each other second.

    And if not, why not, since the Bible leaves no ambiguity for anything in it?
    * I am not sure how to answer this as I don't see the correlation to the previous question.
    While I am humbled by your kind words, I hesitate to accept them out of respect to my fellow non believers whose opinions I often and usually (though not always) share.

    But let’s not digress.

    A quick Google search led me to this article, “The 5 most misused and abused Bible verses.”

    https://relevantmagazine.com/faith/t...-bible-verses/

    I won’t get into the nitty gritty if it all. That’s your department. But the mere reason that someone felt the need to write such an article sort of speaks to my point. No ones’s arguing 2+2=5. No one disputes how to compute long division, algebra, trig, or calculus.

    On the contrary, Bible verses are notorious for their topics of debate and controversy. Donald Trump was elected President and some people found Bible versus that supported that. Then he was defeated by Joe Biden and others found versus to support that. Slave holders were convinced the Bible supported slavery. Abolitionists were convinced otherwise.

    Put 5 Rabbis at a Passover Seder table and no one’s eating dinner until well after midnight because the arguments over the intricacies of Exodus is gonna take a long time!

    (Ok maybe that’s a bad example. Rabbis have been known to argue over anything, from the price of Lox to yesterday’s baseball scores. But you understand my point….)

    All this underscores the issue of not having a single arbiter to settle these disputes. Instead, we have to rely on sources like the one I posted above to tell us what’s true versus what’s misinterpreted. But what if someone disagrees with them? Who’s the ultimate judge?

    No one.

    Until God or Jesus actually shows up in the Flesh, Bible interpretation is as I said: It can mean whatever you want.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 06-23-2022 at 09:35 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    “There is no ambiguity in the Bible, all who interpret it differently than me are wrong”
    I have found that most people who have interpretations of the Bible that veer from what's widely agreed upon don't believe much of the book as a whole and don't care to learn it.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Q: If the Bible is so clear, why do so many people offer different interpretations?

    A: There really aren't different interpretations. People offer different [interpretations] to justify themselves instead of honoring the Lord.
    Translation: There is only one way to interpret the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Q: Why are there different types of Christians with their own takes of Christianity and God and even Jesus?

    A: There no different takes on Christianity, God, or Jesus. We would not say that someone has a different take on Math if they said 2+2=5 or 2+2 = olive juice. For some reason people think it's ok to do that with religion, specifically the Christian religion almost exclusively. I think the reason is that of all the major monotheistic faiths, Christianity is the most peaceful.
    Translation: it’s my way or the highway — with a pile of lies following.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Q: Why do so many believers disagree on so many things if the book from which is the basis of their belief is so crystal clear?

    A: The disagreement is not dogma, it's personal choice. Music type, bible translation version, whether one has Awana or Patch the Pirate. None disagree on who Jesus is and what it takes to gain admission to Heaven when this life ends. Kind of goes back to 2+2=4 example from above.
    Translation: see the translations to the first two questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Q: Or are you now going to assert that Christians are a monolith?

    A: I don't think I would. I would say Christians are relationally based with the Lord first and each other second.
    Translation: An imaginary being takes precedence over actual people.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    I have found that most people who have interpretations of the Bible that veer from what's widely agreed upon don't believe much of the book as a whole and don't care to learn it.
    Very true. Most say there are issues, don't really look to see that those issues are only for those that have done nothing to see if there is an explanation for the supposed issue.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    While I am humbled by your kind words, I hesitate to accept them out of respect to my fellow non believers whose opinions I often and usually (though not always) share.

    But let’s not digress.

    A quick Google search led me to this article, “The 5 most misused and abused Bible verses.”

    https://relevantmagazine.com/faith/t...-bible-verses/

    I won’t get into the nitty gritty if it all. That’s your department. But the mere reason that someone felt the need to write such an article sort of speaks to my point. No ones’s arguing 2+2=5. No one disputes how to compute long division, algebra, trig, or calculus.

    On the contrary, Bible verses are notorious for their topics of debate and controversy. Donald Trump was elected President and some people found Bible versus that supported that. Then he was defeated by Joe Biden and others found versus to support that. Slave holders were convinced the Bible supported slavery. Abolitionists were convinced otherwise.

    Put 5 Rabbis at a Passover Seder table and no one’s eating dinner until well after midnight because the arguments over the intricacies of Exodus is gonna take a long time!

    (Ok maybe that’s a bad example. Rabbis have been known to argue over anything, from the price of Lox to yesterday’s baseball scores. But you understand my point….)

    All this underscores the issue of not having a single arbiter to settle these disputes. Instead, we have to rely on sources like the one I posted above to tell us what’s true versus what’s misinterpreted. But what if someone disagrees with them? Who’s the ultimate judge?

    No one.

    Until God or Jesus actually shows up in the Flesh, Bible interpretation is as I said: It can mean whatever you want.
    The Bible means what the language at the time means. Folks may try to change it like they do today but that does not change the truthfulness of the Bible. Today folks want more than He, She. That takes nothing away from the truth that those are the only two pronouns.

    If you want to start a new thread on alleged issues with the Bible in translation, I'd join in.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, crovash, nastynice, natepro, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    The Bible means what the language at the time means. Folks may try to change it like they do today but that does not change the truthfulness of the Bible. Today folks want more than He, She. That takes nothing away from the truth that those are the only two pronouns.

    If you want to start a new thread on alleged issues with the Bible in translation, I'd join in.
    Cool. Look forward to out further discourse.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 06-23-2022 at 01:20 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    I have found that most people who have interpretations of the Bible that veer from what's widely agreed upon don't believe much of the book as a whole and don't care to learn it.
    And I’ve found that most people who have interpretations of the Bible that veer from “what’s widely agreed upon” are the most likely to be worth listening to (Robin R. Meyers of Oklahoma City’s Mayflower Congregational United Church of Christ comes to mind).

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