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  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    It was a really stupid trade to make, even in hindsight.

    Why trade two shortstops for a shortstop…when there’s a black hole at third?


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    Because they traded the 2 shortstops for Lindor and #2 or 3 starting pitcher at the time Carrasco. Plus they had Mauricio in the wings who was expected to be a better defender than Rosario and better hitter than Gimenez. Not really a stupid trade but you have to give up something of value for expected value.

    You have me intrigued though. I will look at the trade in terms of actual value for each sides of the trade thus far. Who knows how it will work out in the future and I know the Mets gave up more than the 2 shortstops - not sure if any have made it to MLB yet. So I will look at Carrasco and Lindor vs. Gimenez and Rosario.

    From the standpoint of WAR, Cleveland does in fact win over the Mets, both for this year alone 5.6WAR vs. 2.7 WAR and for this and last season - 8.3 WAR vs. 5.0 WAR, so a very good point indeed. The Mets could have done with Rosario what Cleveland did - work him into the CF equation, but chose not to do that.

    Gimenez is working out as a utility IF but playing most of the time at ss, 2b and 3b - the Mets could have done that also.
    Last edited by swbwtr; 07-05-2022 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #317
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    I mean Lindor is on pace for a 6 WAR season. He's never going to live up to that contract in the eyes of many fans. It just is what it is. Biggest mistake the Mets made in that trade was signing Lindor immediately after but I understand why they did it because you don't make a trade for a player of that magnitude just to let him walk after one season.

    In hindsight, they should have went after Jose Ramirez instead because quality everyday 3rd baseman are harder to find than SS but Lindor is a very good player.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-05-2022 at 10:50 AM.

  3. #318
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    I loved Gimenez. He was my favorite Mets prospect for a while. I was sad to see him go.

    Didn’t care at all about losing Rosario.


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  4. #319
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    At the time and with all the hype, the Mets were touting Mauricio as the best of the 3. There are those who still feel that way.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbwtr View Post
    At the time and with all the hype, the Mets were touting Mauricio as the best of the 3. There are those who still feel that way.
    He very well might be, and I do like him.

    I just loved Gimenez for whatever reason.


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  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8ghee View Post
    He very well might be, and I do like him.

    I just loved Gimenez for whatever reason.


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    I liked Gimenez a lot myself, thought he should be the Mets SS and Rosario moved to the outfield anyways I still rather have Lindor.


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  7. #322
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    So who are we getting? Can't let this chance to win it all go by. Yankees will flounder eventually. If Jake and Scherzer are healthy we are as good as anyone.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I mean Lindor is on pace for a 6 WAR season. He's never going to live up to that contract in the eyes of many fans. It just is what it is. Biggest mistake the Mets made in that trade was signing Lindor immediately after but I understand why they did it because you don't make a trade for a player of that magnitude just to let him walk after one season.

    In hindsight, they should have went after Jose Ramirez instead because quality everyday 3rd baseman are harder to find than SS but Lindor is a very good player.
    I was also quoted to saying that Lindor wasn’t even the best player on his own team. But that was more of a testament to how good Ramirez is.

    I’ve made peace with the Lindor contract. It’s going to be a bad contract unless Lindor puts up a 130 wRC+ a few times but, it’s not the worst contract ever. I predicted a 4 win season from Lindor and honestly, he just needs to do that a bunch and he’ll be fine. I’d prefer if he lived up to the superstar expectations but fact of the matter is, he was never going to be the best hitter on the team.

    I was also quoted to saying that McNeil, Conforto, Alonso and Nimmo were all better hitters than Lindor and most of that rings true today. Still, Lindor just needs to be 10-20% better than average and I’ll be happy.

    I’d argue there’s too much value tied to a shortstop and their defense but nonetheless, Lindor has been a good player even if underwhelming.


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  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    So who are we getting? Can't let this chance to win it all go by. Yankees will flounder eventually. If Jake and Scherzer are healthy we are as good as anyone.
    I still think Ian Happ + David Robertson makes the most sense. Wilson Contreras wouldn’t be a bad idea, either. Catcher is absolutely terrible right now.

    Or if the Dbacks would trade Merril Kelly, Joe Mantiply, and/or David Peralta.

    Josh Bell makes sense but is moot if Dom/Vientos/JD start hitting.

    Luis Castillo, Tyler Mahle, and Brandon Drury also make sense but I’m not fond of acquiring a RHB…Drury would also have half as many homers playing in Citi field so, pass.

    See the above sentence but Trey Mancini and Anthony Santander could be available but they’re also RHBs.

    Call the Tigers about a potential reunion with Michael Fulmer. Take a gamble on one of the LHBs who has bad home numbers like Austin Meadows? I dunno. If that’s the case, maybe go get Joey Gallo from the Yankees lol.

    The Rockies have CJ Cron and Charlie Blackmon, who could make sense. Not fond of either of those options, though. As far as pitching, Kyle Freeland wouldn’t be a bad guy to have for cheap.

    I doubt Montas goes anywhere but maybe the Athletics sell Laureano - who I doubt.

    Not a whole lot out there.


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  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbwtr View Post
    Because they traded the 2 shortstops for Lindor and #2 or 3 starting pitcher at the time Carrasco. Plus they had Mauricio in the wings who was expected to be a better defender than Rosario and better hitter than Gimenez. Not really a stupid trade but you have to give up something of value for expected value.

    You have me intrigued though. I will look at the trade in terms of actual value for each sides of the trade thus far. Who knows how it will work out in the future and I know the Mets gave up more than the 2 shortstops - not sure if any have made it to MLB yet. So I will look at Carrasco and Lindor vs. Gimenez and Rosario.

    From the standpoint of WAR, Cleveland does in fact win over the Mets, both for this year alone 5.6WAR vs. 2.7 WAR and for this and last season - 8.3 WAR vs. 5.0 WAR, so a very good point indeed. The Mets could have done with Rosario what Cleveland did - work him into the CF equation, but chose not to do that.

    Gimenez is working out as a utility IF but playing most of the time at ss, 2b and 3b - the Mets could have done that also.
    I don't think the issue is with what the Mets gave up. At the time, it looked like a pretty good deal almost a steal. The issue is the contract the Mets gave Lindor.

    Personally, I was sick and tired of waiting for Rosario to reach his potential. I liked Gimenez and he did show something in 2020. But prior to that he was spinning his wheels in terms of development in the minors and it seems like he was on the way to becoming a non prime prospect.

    So, I don't regret the trade and I think in terms of production we get more out of Lindor. But of course, Lindor is overpaid and may never be the player he was in Cleveland. That's baseball.

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    I was also quoted to saying that Lindor wasn’t even the best player on his own team. But that was more of a testament to how good Ramirez is.

    I’ve made peace with the Lindor contract. It’s going to be a bad contract unless Lindor puts up a 130 wRC+ a few times but, it’s not the worst contract ever. I predicted a 4 win season from Lindor and honestly, he just needs to do that a bunch and he’ll be fine. I’d prefer if he lived up to the superstar expectations but fact of the matter is, he was never going to be the best hitter on the team.

    I was also quoted to saying that McNeil, Conforto, Alonso and Nimmo were all better hitters than Lindor and most of that rings true today. Still, Lindor just needs to be 10-20% better than average and I’ll be happy.

    I’d argue there’s too much value tied to a shortstop and their defense but nonetheless, Lindor has been a good player even if underwhelming.


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    He's not the best hitter but he may still be the best valued player on the team if we look at defense and position and overall WAR

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  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUDIT View Post
    I don't think the issue is with what the Mets gave up. At the time, it looked like a pretty good deal almost a steal. The issue is the contract the Mets gave Lindor.

    Personally, I was sick and tired of waiting for Rosario to reach his potential. I liked Gimenez and he did show something in 2020. But prior to that he was spinning his wheels in terms of development in the minors and it seems like he was on the way to becoming a non prime prospect.

    So, I don't regret the trade and I think in terms of production we get more out of Lindor. But of course, Lindor is overpaid and may never be the player he was in Cleveland. That's baseball.
    Yeah agreed. He will always be associated with that contract but when you pay a shortstop, usually the things they do won't be shown in normal stat book. A lot of their value comes in advanced metrics

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  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Yeah agreed. He will always be associated with that contract but when you pay a shortstop, usually the things they do won't be shown in normal stat book. A lot of their value comes in advanced metrics

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    From the standpoint of leadership, he is the leader in the infield no doubt.

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    He's not the best hitter but he may still be the best valued player on the team if we look at defense and position and overall WAR

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    True…although I don’t necessarily agree with defensive metrics/positioning since the rise of the shift.

    I know Lindor has more value than Alonso in terms of WAR but I would rather have the hittter who’s 50% better than the average guy.


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  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    I still think Ian Happ + David Robertson makes the most sense. Wilson Contreras wouldn’t be a bad idea, either. Catcher is absolutely terrible right now.

    Or if the Dbacks would trade Merril Kelly, Joe Mantiply, and/or David Peralta.

    Josh Bell makes sense but is moot if Dom/Vientos/JD start hitting.

    Luis Castillo, Tyler Mahle, and Brandon Drury also make sense but I’m not fond of acquiring a RHB…Drury would also have half as many homers playing in Citi field so, pass.

    See the above sentence but Trey Mancini and Anthony Santander could be available but they’re also RHBs.

    Call the Tigers about a potential reunion with Michael Fulmer. Take a gamble on one of the LHBs who has bad home numbers like Austin Meadows? I dunno. If that’s the case, maybe go get Joey Gallo from the Yankees lol.

    The Rockies have CJ Cron and Charlie Blackmon, who could make sense. Not fond of either of those options, though. As far as pitching, Kyle Freeland wouldn’t be a bad guy to have for cheap.

    I doubt Montas goes anywhere but maybe the Athletics sell Laureano - who I doubt.

    Not a whole lot out there.


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    You forgot Chafin and Soto in Detroit. Maybe Soto is not attainable, but Chafin should definitely be and not cost a lot, I think.

    There has been some talk (not here) of the Mets interest in Nelson Cruz. I don't see what the Mets see in him. He is hitting less than JD and has not shown the homer power his has hitherto been known for. Perhaps the only thing valuable in Cruz is that it would probably cost next to nothing to get him.

    Isn't Montas on the IL, as is Mahle.

    Watch, if and when the Mets trade Dom and JD they start hitting with their new team.

    How about Noah Syndergaard?
    Last edited by AUDIT; 07-08-2022 at 06:08 AM.

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