Buffalo shooting

[spliff(TONE)]

Wel have your been on the wider internet? There are literally hundreds of thousands of not millions of gruesome comments online to where, if the poster later went and shot up a school people would point to those posts as proof we should have seen it coming.

I asked earlier and maybe people thought I was being facetious. But if we believe the solution is identifying and catching their online posts, who does it and how? The internet is a massive place. Relying on people who know the subject to know what is just regular internet trolling and legitimate warning signs is not going to work (obviously since in every school shooting we’ve had, nobody around them acted on their messages in time to stop it).

So who and how do we search and identify the warning signs and what do we do once they’ve been identified? It’s Easy to say, but in practice it’s a lot harder to do than you think.

Absolutely anything, no matter how difficult or ineffective it may be, is a more attractive solution than limiting access to guns.

[metswon69]

So someone saying they are going to shoot people isn’t a cause for concern online if they don’t have enough followers to matter?

No, its just not easy to determine intent. I can't tell you percentages but harassing and threatening language is used on social media presumably tens of thousands of times a day (maybe more) and an overwhelming majority of it ends up as trolling. You are well aware of what I'm talking about in respect to it being a needle in a huge haystack. As Valade said, the internet is massive. That doesn't include the dark web which is used for illegal activity daily.

[Bird of Prey]

How things did end up playing out:

That may be the most stupid depiction of an awful incident that I've ever seen. Whoever that political artist was that drew that picture was an idiot. Wonder if he thought that he would have been brave enough to go straight to the shooter? Would you,db? Ever face live fire and take a round or two. Ever seen your buddies get torn up by live rounds or grenades?

The responding cops were misled by the guy in charge of them after the killer got into that school. No question about it. I found out today that the guy had just been appointed to his position a few weeks prior. His background or experience in combat situations is unknown to me but maybe he never was in charge of a group in combat.

In combat, you are afraid. if you tell anyone that you aren't afraid you are lying to them and to yourself. That is where combat leaders and training must happen regularly so that you can conquer that fear and be able to conduct what is necessary to take out your target(s).

Take all that aside, though, because this tragedy could have been handled without a loss of life(in my estimation) if three things had happened.

1. The school locked down as soon and the trespasser was spotted and seen with a long gun. Instead a teacher went out to see and failed to lock the door she left open. She should be fired for that.

2. The call for the Border patrol to come in with their tactical means and expertise should have happened immediately.

3. With the school buttoned down tight, the police officers should have placed themselves in a circle around the shooter so he had no where to go. The guy had body armor apparently so they need to protect themselves but prevent the shooter from firing into the school by using their own weapons to prevent him from endangering the kids and teachers.

4. When the border patrol arrived(which I understand were the equivalent of being the best trained tactical unit in the school district's police operations). Then they take over what happens next namely taking out the shooter or take him into custody without a loss of life.

This is tactics 101. The Robb School wasn't prepared. Mistakes were made. Same kind of **** happens in many other school shootings. And know this. Taking the AR-15 type weapons away from anyone will not stop a young shooter or drugged out whacko from trying to shoot up a school. Sorry. It just will happen again if schools do not harden the schools. You cannot take the threat away. It will always remain. People need to do their job of protecting the innocent and not just howl at the moon and wish the problem to end.

[natepro]

I run one group on FB with just under 16k members, and this is our average engagement over the last month.



And that's just in one relatively smallish group, there are some out there with millions of members that see far more engagement per day, and even that isn't Facebook outside of groups, or any other social media sites. He's a needle in an ocean of hay, and algorithms can only do so much.

[natepro]

Apparently you moved on from willfully ignorant to willfully missing people's points.

[Bird of Prey]

How things did end up playing out:

That may be the most stupid depiction of an awful incident that I've ever seen. Whoever that political artist was that drew that picture was an idiot. Wonder if he thought that he would have been brave enough to go straight to the shooter? Would you,db? Ever face live fire and take a round or two. Ever seen your buddies get torn up by live rounds or grenades?

The responding cops were misled by the guy in charge of them after the killer got into that school. No question about it. I found out today that the guy had just been appointed to his position a few weeks prior. His background or experience in combat situations is unknown to me but maybe he never was in charge of a group in combat.

In combat, you are afraid. if you tell anyone that you aren't afraid you are lying to them and to yourself. That is where combat leaders and training must happen regularly so that you can conquer that fear and be able to conduct what is necessary to take out your target(s).

Take all that aside, though, because this tragedy could have been handled without a loss of life(in my estimation) if four things had happened.

1. The school locked down as soon and the trespasser was spotted and seen with a long gun. Instead a teacher went out to see and failed to lock the door she left open. She should be fired for that.

2. The call for the Border patrol to come in with their tactical means and expertise should have happened immediately.

3. With the school buttoned down tight, the police officers should have placed themselves in a circle around the shooter so he had no where to go. The guy had body armor apparently so they need to protect themselves but prevent the shooter from firing into the school by using their own weapons to prevent him from endangering the kids and teachers.

4. When the border patrol arrived(which I understand were the equivalent of being the best trained tactical unit in the school district's police operations). Then they take over what happens next namely taking out the shooter or take him into custody without a loss of life.

This is tactics 101. The Robb School wasn't prepared. Mistakes were made. Same kind of **** happens in many other school shootings. And know this. Taking the AR-15 type weapons away from anyone will not stop a young shooter or drugged out whacko from trying to shoot up a school. Sorry. It just will happen again if schools do not harden the schools. You cannot take the threat away. It will always remain. People need to do their job of protecting the innocent and not just howl at the moon and wish the problem to end.

[natepro]

This is tactics 101. The Robb School wasn't prepared.

We live in a first world, industrialized, modern country where a statement like this is apparently supposed to sound reasonable.

[Jack the Ripper]

No, its just not easy to determine intent. I can't tell you percentages but harassing and threatening language is used on social media presumably thousands of times a day and an overwhelming majority of it ends up as trolling. You are well aware of what I'm talking about in respect to it being a needle in a huge haystack. As Valade said, the internet is massive. That doesn't include the dark web which is used for illegal activity daily.

Does intent really matter? If someone comments under a Facebook post and says, “I’d like to shoot this mother****er”, would you want said person to be able to purchase a firearm? Probably not.

My point is, we’re policing some of the dumbest **** online while paying zero attention to red flag behaviors.

[metswon69]

Does intent really matter? If someone comments under a Facebook post and says, “I’d like to shoot this mother****er”, would you want said person to be able to purchase a firearm? Probably not.

My point is, we’re policing some of the dumbest **** online while paying zero attention to red flag behaviors.

I hope you realize that if every case of someone threatening someone else or even groups of people (on the internet) had cops involved, that cops would basically be working 24/7 on these individual engagements alone. Because that's basically how frequently it occurs. Like how you speak of how crazy it is to try and take every gun from American citizens, this is equally as unpractical. Maybe even more so.

The one thing I agree with you about is that his followers should have taken his posts more seriously and reported him to IG, SC, and the authorities. That said, I'm not expecting those platforms to find someone with such an insignificant internet presence and be able to identify/tag him as dangerous among billions of other users.

[Bird of Prey]

I talked about Republicans voting against any form of gun control. You rambled on about something else entirely.

The thing about you and your liberal friends is you always talk about wishing the problem away with SIMPLE SOLUTIONS. Like this school shooting. You say that GUN CONTROL is the answer and hardening the school itself was stupid. Just take guns away from people is you answer. Quit making guns is the answer. But the problem is that you guys SIMPLE SOLUTION cannot ever be done. Gun possession cannot be eliminated as a factor in school shootings. Ever. No matter what you do, you cannot do that. That horse left the barn over two centuries ago. The 350M legal guns say you can't . IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

[ewing]

Stories are, unsurprisingly, pouring in from people who knew the Ramos kid and witnessed violent, aggressive, and anti-social tendencies. The question now becomes, what do we do to find these people and what do we do with them? Because even if this kid couldn’t get his hands on a gun, he was probably going to end up raping and killing someone given the many stories about his behavior toward women.

Also, FWIW, Facebook banned Trump citing public safety concerns, but this kid was all over the Internet on several social media platforms including Facebook and various other places displaying behavior that actually should have raised concern for public safety.

Take away there guns


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack the Ripper]

I hope you realize that if every case of someone threatening someone else or even groups of people (on the internet) had cops involved, that cops would basically be working 24/7 on these individual engagements alone. Because that's basically how frequently it occurs. Like how you speak of how crazy it is to try and take every gun from American citizens, this is equally as unpractical. Maybe even more so.

The one thing I agree with you about is that his followers should have taken his posts more seriously and reported him to IG, SC, and the authorities. That said, I'm not expecting those platforms to find someone with such an insignificant internet presence and be able to identify/tag him as dangerous among billions of other users.

I’m not suggesting that the cops be involved in every case of someone making a threat online. But flagging these people as potential threats and monitoring their attempts to purchase guns (which should require a good amount of hoops to jump through) would go a long way toward finding potential mass shooters. Of course, I’m just spit balling, but I’m as tired of these incidents happening as everyone else.

[spliff(TONE)]

That may be the most stupid depiction of an awful incident that I've ever seen. Whoever that political artist was that drew that picture was an idiot. Wonder if he thought that he would have been brave enough to go straight to the shooter? Would you,db? Ever face live fire and take a round or two. Ever seen your buddies get torn up by live rounds or grenades?

The responding cops were misled by the guy in charge of them after the killer got into that school. No question about it. I found out today that the guy had just been appointed to his position a few weeks prior. His background or experience in combat situations is unknown to me but maybe he never was in charge of a group in combat.

In combat, you are afraid. if you tell anyone that you aren't afraid you are lying to them and to yourself. That is where combat leaders and training must happen regularly so that you can conquer that fear and be able to conduct what is necessary to take out your target(s).

Take all that aside, though, because this tragedy could have been handled without a loss of life(in my estimation) if three things had happened.

1. The school locked down as soon and the trespasser was spotted and seen with a long gun. Instead a teacher went out to see and failed to lock the door she left open. She should be fired for that.

2. The call for the Border patrol to come in with their tactical means and expertise should have happened immediately.

3. With the school buttoned down tight, the police officers should have placed themselves in a circle around the shooter so he had no where to go. The guy had body armor apparently so they need to protect themselves but prevent the shooter from firing into the school by using their own weapons to prevent him from endangering the kids and teachers.

4. When the border patrol arrived(which I understand were the equivalent of being the best trained tactical unit in the school district's police operations). Then they take over what happens next namely taking out the shooter or take him into custody without a loss of life.

This is tactics 101. The Robb School wasn't prepared. Mistakes were made. Same kind of **** happens in many other school shootings. And know this. Taking the AR-15 type weapons away from anyone will not stop a young shooter or drugged out whacko from trying to shoot up a school. Sorry. It just will happen again if schools do not harden the schools. You cannot take the threat away. It will always remain. People need to do their job of protecting the innocent and not just howl at the moon and wish the problem to end.

That may be the most stupid depiction of an awful incident that I've ever seen. Whoever that political artist was that drew that picture was an idiot. Wonder if he thought that he would have been brave enough to go straight to the shooter? Would you,db? Ever face live fire and take a round or two. Ever seen your buddies get torn up by live rounds or grenades?

The responding cops were misled by the guy in charge of them after the killer got into that school. No question about it. I found out today that the guy had just been appointed to his position a few weeks prior. His background or experience in combat situations is unknown to me but maybe he never was in charge of a group in combat.

In combat, you are afraid. if you tell anyone that you aren't afraid you are lying to them and to yourself. That is where combat leaders and training must happen regularly so that you can conquer that fear and be able to conduct what is necessary to take out your target(s).

Take all that aside, though, because this tragedy could have been handled without a loss of life(in my estimation) if four things had happened.

1. The school locked down as soon and the trespasser was spotted and seen with a long gun. Instead a teacher went out to see and failed to lock the door she left open. She should be fired for that.

2. The call for the Border patrol to come in with their tactical means and expertise should have happened immediately.

3. With the school buttoned down tight, the police officers should have placed themselves in a circle around the shooter so he had no where to go. The guy had body armor apparently so they need to protect themselves but prevent the shooter from firing into the school by using their own weapons to prevent him from endangering the kids and teachers.

4. When the border patrol arrived(which I understand were the equivalent of being the best trained tactical unit in the school district's police operations). Then they take over what happens next namely taking out the shooter or take him into custody without a loss of life.

This is tactics 101. The Robb School wasn't prepared. Mistakes were made. Same kind of **** happens in many other school shootings. And know this. Taking the AR-15 type weapons away from anyone will not stop a young shooter or drugged out whacko from trying to shoot up a school. Sorry. It just will happen again if schools do not harden the schools. You cannot take the threat away. It will always remain. People need to do their job of protecting the innocent and not just howl at the moon and wish the problem to end.

We heard you the first time, you absolute ****ing mental case. Your poor caretaker needs to take away your internet access; everything about you and your online presence is beyond embarrassing.

[spliff(TONE)]

Here's a minute by minute breakdown of how things played out at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...lde-texas.html

[Bird of Prey]

We live in a first world, industrialized, modern country where a statement like this is apparently supposed to sound reasonable.

Tell me exactly how this isn't "reasonable"?

Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post

This is tactics 101. The Robb School wasn't prepared.


Um, nate, in your "expert" opinion, was that school prepared for dealing with an armed school shooter? You are just an insulting creepy windsock.