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  1. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Tatis suspended for PEDs. Sox win the trade lol. Just Kidding
    I said at the time that the Tatis move to sign him to that enormous contract was the most stupid contract ever given to a player. No player in all of baseball is worth those contracts. You have to really be nuts to think that a player making a half of billion bucks (with endorsement deals) and all is going to hustle his *** off to meet the expectations of it. Tatis was hardly worth 30 percent of that ridiculous deal. Then these idiots spend even more money on another young guy already turning down $450M.

    Think Soto is going to be worth the 500B+ he is going to get from the Yankees or Beantown? No way.

    And lets say that the new half billionaires do not dog it and rather bust their butts playing the game hard and THEY GET HURT BAD. Or maybe they get shot at a party? Get a new Covid disease?

  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post
    I said at the time that the Tatis move to sign him to that enormous contract was the most stupid contract ever given to a player. No player in all of baseball is worth those contracts. You have to really be nuts to think that a player making a half of billion bucks (with endorsement deals) and all is going to hustle his *** off to meet the expectations of it. Tatis was hardly worth 30 percent of that ridiculous deal. Then these idiots spend even more money on another young guy already turning down $450M.

    Think Soto is going to be worth the 500B+ he is going to get from the Yankees or Beantown? No way.

    And lets say that the new half billionaires do not dog it and rather bust their butts playing the game hard and THEY GET HURT BAD. Or maybe they get shot at a party? Get a new Covid disease?
    Teams have insurance policies for those things.
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  3. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Teams have insurance policies for those things.
    I know that but that is not a cure-all to get your money back. Here is an article that i bring up that covers what these insurance contracts actually are.When you also introduce a player taking Roids or other cheating drugs it is really problematic to see what the team can do to recover some of the tens of millions it invested in a player.


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    Home / Mets News/Understanding the Business of Baseball: Insurance on Player Contracts
    Understanding the Business of Baseball: Insurance on Player Contracts
    By Michael Branda
    Updated: February 1, 2013
    The business of baseball is a lot tougher to grasp than the dynamics of “on-the-field” play. As fans, we look at the end result of every decision made. Did he sign? Who did we trade? When was he drafted?

    Rarely do we get to see what happens behind closed doors.

    Recently, the injury of Alex Rodriguez has brought about questions regarding the insurance of a player’s contract. On top of that, the discussion of whether the Yankees can void the deal they voluntarily signed has come into question as well.

    Regarding the insurance on a contract, here are some things you need to know:


    Most of the insurance policies are covered within 3 year intervals, and most policies are done solely to protect teams from injuries to players on a long term deal. So for example, David Wright’s new 8 year deal would likely get a new policy after 2016, because he was already signed in 2013.

    If you’re wondering why this is the case, think like an insurer for a minute.

    Would you rather insure a contract for a 30 year old until he’s 38, or would you rather have a new policy at 34 be written? It’s not in the insurer’s best interest to protect the team for the full 8 years at age 30. The likelihood of an injury to Wright at age 35 is greater than the chance at 31. Therefore, the insurer will not offer as much protection in 2017 as they did in 2014.

    Most policies cover between 50-80% of the total contract value with premiums as high as 10% of the contract’s annual value. No insurer will cover the entire value of the contract, so there will always be some sort of risk on the teams part.

    A major league team can only collect on a policy if a player is on the DL. Prior to the 1999 season, the Baltimore Orioles signed Albert Belle to a 5 year offer worth just over $60 million. Following the 2000 season, Belle was forced to retire due to a degenerative hip disease at age 34.

    Because he could not fulfill the remaining 3 years on his contract, three things happened.

    The first, he had to remain on their 40 man roster per the agreement within his insurance policy. Belle would still receive every penny of his remaining $39 million, but the Orioles were able to recover $23 million of that contract through the insurance policy.

    This moment was when teams and insurer’s focused a little more closely on what and who to insure.

    Cardinals former GM Walt Jocketty said

    “It’s become so expensive that it’s a cost item we really have to look at when you put your payroll together. If you’re going to insure players, you almost have to include that as part of your payroll.”

    The reason for this is likely that there is so much red tape involved in recovering a lucrative policy, that you may not see the recovery in the time it takes to pay said player. The Orioles had to pay Belle, regardless of what happened with the insurance. A baseball player’s contract is guaranteed.

    David Wright eye exam

    Policies often did, but now definitely do not include coverage on a pre-existing injury. So for example, it’s very unlikely that the Mets would be covered on David Wright’s back should he injure it again or possibly suffer from post-concussion symptoms.


    To take it one step back into the past, is it possible the Mets could not get an insurance policy on Jose Reyes’ hamstring/leg problems? It most certainly is.

    For pitchers, the policy is generally more expensive and at times may not cover an injury to the elbow or throwing shoulder even if there is not a history of such injury.

    In 2009, the Diamondbacks were looking to extend Brandon Webb for 3 years, worth over $50 million. Even though he passed a team physical, the Diamondbacks were informed their insurer would not cover Webb’s right arm. The Diamondbacks pulled their offer at that point. To a fan, they see not bringing Webb back for 3 years as a crime against the team – to the general manager and owner, they saw it as a poor business decision.

    Insurance is also important when you consider the possibility of trading aging players on a long term deal.

    In 2002, Omar Minaya then GM of Montreal said

    “The Tom Glavine negotiations could be a case in point. When you’re negotiating a contract, the insurance issue comes up more and more, especially now that it’s three years. When you take on a guy in a trade, you always ask what’s the insurance situation.”

    The other thing to remember is that players are not involved in this process. They do not care if you insure their contract or not. They are getting their money no matter what, how a team protects themselves is entirely up to them.

    Let’s bring this full circle to the Yankees situation due to its relevancy.

    It’s very possible and likely that their insurance policy on Alex Rodriguez’ remaining $114 million is not a cut and dry policy. That contract began in 2008, which means a new policy began in either 2010 or 2011 at the latest. Think like an insurer again.

    You had a declining 34-35 year old, who has since been outed as a steroid user in his past. There’s no way they are insuring that contract on the high end of its remaining value. You’ll continue to read people assume that if Rodriguez is shelved for the rest of his career that the Yankees would recover the entire dollar amount. That’s not true.

    You’ll also be reading about the Yankees trying to void his contract. That’s a wing and a prayer. It’s very unlikely that Rodriguez’s agent (Boras) allowed anything regarding steroids to be written in his contract. The Yankees will have to go above and beyond to find ways to void the deal, and at the end of the day – Arod is getting his money no matter what.

    The Yankees only hope in my view of getting any money back on Rodriguez’s contract is if he doesn’t play in 2013 and then beyond that. If he heals in 2014 and they keep him on the DL in an attempt to recover more money, the insurer will have their own physical done on Rodriguez and determine the extent of the injury based on possible coverage.

    But one thing to consider, an insurer is generally more careful than a team when it comes to their long-term financial commitments. Does Rodriguez’s policy include the fact that he cannot take any illegal substances that may lead to a potential injury? That’s very possible. There’s a lot to be determined, but I think we need to be careful in assuming this financial issue is cut and dry for the Yankees. It involves so much more than your mainstream media wishes to discuss.

    If you’ve ever been curious enough to dive deep into the business of baseball (and other sports), I recommend two things to you. The first is to take a look at Sports Business Journal.

    The second is to take a look at the complexity of a major league contract. This contract is referred to as a “split contract,” and though the name is blackened out, it is likely a veteran on the 40 man roster’s contract.

    It’s items like this that help separate fans and executives. We see things as black and white. Sign this guy, trade for this guy and be done. But it’s never that easy, especially when you’re dealing with long term commitments.

  4. #589
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    So yes, insurance covers them. No one said it was 100%. But it mitigates the risk to an acceptable level.
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  5. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    So yes, insurance covers them. No one said it was 100%. But it mitigates the risk to an acceptable level.
    Does it? That is pretty iffy all around. Whatever you say but
    investing over a billion and a quarter bucks on three baseball players to me is asinine. How the insurance plays out is pretty ill defined.

  6. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post
    Does it? That is pretty iffy all around. Whatever you say but
    investing over a billion and a quarter bucks on three baseball players to me is asinine. How the insurance plays out is pretty ill defined.
    Here is a report about the Pads not being able to get any money back on Tatis's wrist injury where he broke it riding a motorcycle. Don't know if they would have recovered either from the shoulder injury where the bone popped out of the shoulder socket when he swung hard at a pitch(Ouch).

    San Diego Padres' Fernando Tatis Jr. has surgery on broken left wrist
    Mar 16, 2022
    ESPN News Services
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    PEORIA, Ariz. -- All-Star shortstop Fernando Tatis Jr. of the San Diego Padres had surgery on his broken left wrist Wednesday.

    General manager A.J. Preller said earlier this week that the $340 million superstar is expected to miss three months. Tatis led the National League with 42 homers in 2021 and was third in the NL MVP balloting.

    It's unclear how the electrifying player broke his wrist, but there were reports in December that he had a motorcycle accident in the Dominican Republic.

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    Preller said Monday that the team believed the injury occurred early in the offseason but that Tatis didn't start feeling it until he began taking swings about a month ago in preparation for spring training.

    Tatis, 23, had a series of injuries to his left shoulder last year and also was on the COVID-19 injury list at one point. He batted .282 with 97 RBI and 25 stolen bases.

    Ha-Seong Kim is expected to replace Tatis at shortstop. Kim is entering his second big league season after starring in South Korea.

    Tatis signed a $330 million, 14-year contract with the Padres during spring training last year.

    The Padres aren't likely to recoup any salary -- or void Tatis' contract -- from games missed due to the injury, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN's Jesse Rogers earlier this week.

  7. #592
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    I just saw the light on ops+

    Just blew my mind. I'll never look at ops again haha


    So, 800 is a good marker for a good ops. What is that number for ops +?

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  8. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    I just saw the light on ops+

    Just blew my mind. I'll never look at ops again haha


    So, 800 is a good marker for a good ops. What is that number for ops +?

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    OPS+ and wRC+ are pretty similar, 100 is league average for both stats. Obviously the higher up you go the better the player.

    Similar to OPS+, Weighted Runs Created Plus (wRC+) measures how a player’s wRC compares with league average after controlling for park effects. League average for position players is 100, and every point above 100 is a percentage point above league average. For example, a 125 wRC+ means a player created 25% more runs...

  9. #594
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    What happens when the league is down?

    In other words, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king seems to be a possibility.
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  10. #595
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    The league average is always going to be 100, that number doesn't change.

  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    What happens when the league is down?

    In other words, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king seems to be a possibility.
    It gets real interesting also when the powers to be in baseball, screw around with the ball which they do every few years. They won't admit this either but they do monkey around with where and how the strike zone is going to be . A few years ago, the high breaking pitch was never called, now it is. Its funny really. This year it was the pine tar affected the spin rates for pitchers.

    Personally, I want the automatic strike zone to be implemented. IF it does nothing more that taking that stupid strike zone outline out of the broadcasts on every F ing pitch, it would make listening to a game better. Every pitch, another witless discussion between Benetti and Stone. Benetti probably is a fine fellow, but his inane chattering up with Stone just irritates the crap out of me.

  12. #597
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    I mentioned in the last post about the automatic strike zone and its implementation and in it I talked about Benetti bugging me with his chatter. I don't follow the Bulls at all but that broadcaster, Amin, was a pleasure to listen to on that broadcast yesterday. He was personable, knowledgeable I believe, and had a terrific voice. I wouldn't hearing more of him in place of benetti going forward.

  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post
    I mentioned in the last post about the automatic strike zone and its implementation and in it I talked about Benetti bugging me with his chatter. I don't follow the Bulls at all but that broadcaster, Amin, was a pleasure to listen to on that broadcast yesterday. He was personable, knowledgeable I believe, and had a terrific voice. I wouldn't hearing more of him in place of benetti going forward.
    The Bulls home broadcast is the best in the biz. Love Stacey King. I think the Sox broadcast is pretty damn good too. Stone is one of the most inciteful announcers out there. He calls what is going to happen more then anyone. Just a good baseball mind all around. I don't love Bennetti as much as most, but he has a voice. I think he takes things way to far off topic for too long at times.

    As for Automatic Strike Zone. I don't understand why this is so hard to implement. It's common sense. Everyone watching on TV knows if it's a strike or not. There is no arguing. They have the ability to see where the ball crosses the plate in 3D. Tennis proves how well this works with Hawkeye. When I watch a match that Hawkeye isn't being used, the whining and complaining to the Chair Ump is 100% higher then when Hawkeye is being implemented. No one complains in or out with Hawkeye because it's always right. They sometimes ask to see the replay, and then they go about their business. And it's not like the home plate ump has to lose his job. He can still stand there and signal it. He still needs to be for plays at the plate.

    Another thing that I truly don't understand is why they can't review check swings. It is literally the easiest and fastest play to review, yet they can't review it. We got screwed on 2 in the KC series. Detroit got screwed on at least 1 vs. us. Someone can review a check swing within 10 seconds and signal down to the ump Yes or No. It's that easy, but they don't want to hurt the fragile minds of soft *** umpires that decide way too much. Nothing proved the fragility of a refs psyche like the NFL Pass Interference reviews. They refused to ever admit they were wrong even when it was obvious, and they just did away with it.

  14. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSox_05 View Post
    The league average is always going to be 100, that number doesn't change.
    I agree,
    However league average today, this week, this month, this season, is not consistent when comparing to other periods of time, right?
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  15. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    The Bulls home broadcast is the best in the biz. Love Stacey King. I think the Sox broadcast is pretty damn good too. Stone is one of the most inciteful announcers out there. He calls what is going to happen more then anyone. Just a good baseball mind all around. I don't love Bennetti as much as most, but he has a voice. I think he takes things way to far off topic for too long at times.

    As for Automatic Strike Zone. I don't understand why this is so hard to implement. It's common sense. Everyone watching on TV knows if it's a strike or not. There is no arguing. They have the ability to see where the ball crosses the plate in 3D. Tennis proves how well this works with Hawkeye. When I watch a match that Hawkeye isn't being used, the whining and complaining to the Chair Ump is 100% higher then when Hawkeye is being implemented. No one complains in or out with Hawkeye because it's always right. They sometimes ask to see the replay, and then they go about their business. And it's not like the home plate ump has to lose his job. He can still stand there and signal it. He still needs to be for plays at the plate.

    Another thing that I truly don't understand is why they can't review check swings. It is literally the easiest and fastest play to review, yet they can't review it. We got screwed on 2 in the KC series. Detroit got screwed on at least 1 vs. us. Someone can review a check swing within 10 seconds and signal down to the ump Yes or No. It's that easy, but they don't want to hurt the fragile minds of soft *** umpires that decide way too much. Nothing proved the fragility of a refs psyche like the NFL Pass Interference reviews. They refused to ever admit they were wrong even when it was obvious, and they just did away with it.
    Good post. Check swings are very subjective to call and every umpire has his own determinator. There is also no known definition of what is a legit checked swing to my knowledge which probably is the reason why it hasn't been subject to review and probably never will. I hate umpires in general, though, and I'd replace every one of them with cameras or robots if I could.

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