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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Some of our specs are gonna rise if they play well. Especially the 20 year olds playing well. I think 1 of Ramos/Montgomery and 1 of Crochet/Vaughn is a good front end of that deal.
    We're not talking Frankie Montas anymore. Going to cost a lot more than that.

  2. #182
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    I have a hard time believing that Hahn would deal Robert.
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  3. #183
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    May 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    I promise you Vaughn + Robert is not an overpay. Robert + Cease might be close to an overpay I agree, but you're going to have a plethora of teams were competing against. Looking at a few baseball trade value sites, a few have Robert + Cease as right there with Soto. One has Robert + Cease as still an underpay.

    It's a lot to give up, but Soto is just on another level. He's a year younger than Luis and has already accomplished a ton more. If you want him, you're going to have to pay a lot. We don't have any specs in the top of the rankings to hand over that would ease the burden of throwing in someone like Cease.

    Soto turns 24 today, has played 500 games and has a career OBP of .430. His similarity scores through his current age match up with guys like Hank Aaron, Griffey Jr, Mantle, Trout, Cabrera, Frank Robinson. Anyone getting him is going to be breaking the bank to do so, and then extending him for about 400 million.

    I don't think we'll be in the running for the record. Too many teams out there with multiple prospects ranked in the top 25-30 that can combine those + something from the ML roster.
    I don't disagree with anything but your first paragraph.
    Vauhgn is slight and Cease is a well over pay for Soto. I agree teams might pay it, but that ain't my issue.
    I just don't want to overpay. What Robert has done in his first 150ish games is on pace with the very best ever. That said, I'd still take Soto, but it's not as far off as anyone is making it to be.

    I didn't pay close enough attention but Robert's start of power and speed is matched by like four people in the history of the game. And we have him signed for next to nothing for what another four or five years?
    Love Soto. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE

    But Robert and Cease is a fast NO and Robert and Vaughn would cause pause even if it's a slight overpay (my eyes only perhaps)
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  4. #184
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    May 2008
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    When they trade Soto, it's going to be a complete rebuild over there. They aren't going to care as much about guys in their mid 20's already. The value is going to come from our high upside Prospects.

    Colson Montgomery is our top spec, and he's starting to show why at a very young age. Looks to have good plate discipline early on with his .400+ OBP. His raw power is starting to show up too. A couple HR's since his return. His raw comp is Corey Seager. He is a great piece.

    Bryan Ramos is only 20 as well, and is looking like a legit prospect for us. He jumped into our top 3 specs already this year. I can see both moving into the top 100 overall prospects by the end of the season.

    Another upside young spec for us is Jose Rodriguez. He broke onto the scene last year with some nice power and speed numbers out of the Middle Infield. He's only 21 now, got off to a slow start, but is starting to come around again.

    Give them Cespedes who has talent and upside in the OF, and can be ready to join the majors fairly soon for them.

    Give them Kath who is young and has some upside as a 3B.

    A guy like Burger is a solid 4th piece that has already shown he can handle MLB pitching, and he can fit right into a rebuild, and even if he isn't the guy for their competitive window, he will likely be able to garner some trade bait for them after a few years at the MLB level.

    Crochet and Vaughn are both graduated top prospects, so getting 1 of them is a really good 2nd piece behind Montgomery or Ramos, who ever we decide to include.

    I don't think Cease or Robert need to be, or will be part of a package for Soto. The point of getting Soto is to pair him with our MLB ready roster. Not create a new hole for.

    The MLB player you include is Vaughn and Eloy. Sheets can slide into our future 1B for Vaughn, with Abreu likely playing at least a couple more years. Colas would be our Eloy Replacement.

    We hang onto 1 of Ramos or Colson to be our future 3B. We hang onto Yolbert and Sosa as our future MI. We hold onto Colas to complete our OF.

    If we did Montgomery/Rodriguez/Cespedes/Kath that's 4 of our top 10 specs including our 1/3/4/6. Vaughn and Crochet would be top 3 specs in our system if they didn't graduate from the Minors already. That's a haul, even for a generational talent like Soto.

  5. #185
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    Jun 2005
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    I could part with ILoy since we have a lot of DH types already, but we would probably be selling low. Id also see what they think of Moncada.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    I could part with ILoy since we have a lot of DH types already, but we would probably be selling low. Id also see what they think of Moncada.
    Id keep Moncada until one of our system guys is ready. Whoever we keep between Ramos and Montgomery in that package.

    If you pair LouBob and Soto for the next half decade+ you are gonna be in great shape. The 2nd half you'd trot out

    SS Timmy
    RF Soto
    CF LouBob
    1B Abreu
    3B Moncada
    C Grandal
    LF Pollock
    DH Sheets
    2B Yolbert

    C McGuire
    OF Engel
    UTIL Harrison
    UTIL Leury

  7. #187
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    Nov 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Id keep Moncada until one of our system guys is ready. Whoever we keep between Ramos and Montgomery in that package.

    If you pair LouBob and Soto for the next half decade+ you are gonna be in great shape. The 2nd half you'd trot out

    SS Timmy
    RF Soto
    CF LouBob
    1B Abreu
    3B Moncada
    C Grandal
    LF Pollock
    DH Sheets
    2B Yolbert

    C McGuire
    OF Engel
    UTIL Harrison
    UTIL Leury
    Out of those prospects listed, I'd give up Moncada before i'd give up any of them.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post
    Out of those prospects listed, I'd give up Moncada before i'd give up any of them.
    Youre keeping his replacement. Its gonna take a lot to get probably a top 2 hitter in the game entering his prime, locked in for another 2 years.

  9. #189
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    Id see what they think of Moncada anyways. I dont see him ever living up to the hype.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    Id see what they think of Moncada anyways. I dont see him ever living up to the hype.
    I don't either. If he is moved to second base, He would still have a tough time of making even one all-star team. He is not a power hitter and makes too little contact and speed to make him an Anderson level hitter either.

    Also, did you watch that game yesterday. He once again tweaked his hammies when he rounded first base and then held up. Wonder if he makes the IL tomorrow? The guy is an injury risk every time he extends himself.

  11. #191
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    Jun 2005
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    You called it. Yawn Moncada out today.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    You called it. Yawn Moncada out today.
    Yep. .196 with two HRs is pretty easy to better. Beckham was talking a bit of hitting today in general and he talked about Lemahieu "staying inside" on the ball which made him such a good hitter and tough to strike out. When you see so many of our hitters, they do not do that including Moncada, He is rolling his hands and elevating the ball. when a guy hits like that and is "early" his hands roll and he generally is on top of the ball resulting in weak ground balls or strikeouts. Moncada and other guys, especially Grandal do this a lot. Look at the Yankees and they don't as a team do that very much other than a couple of guys. Even their stars make adjustments and try to shorten up and go the other way when they just need to move a runner or need a sac fly or a simple base hit. We don't as a general rule. This team has lousy plate discipline.

    If an old beat up former pitcher can see this crap, any decent major league hitting coach should pick this up and do something about it in general terms. When I see guys who get paid all of the money that they do and can't adjust their swings and hitting approach it really pisses me off.

  13. #193
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    Moncada has definitely been a under-achiever every year - except 2019.
    The team collectively has been a little slow out of the gate so he deserves a little slack, but by the end of June if he isn't getting it done then it's time to seriously reconsider - IMO.
    They have options to replace him.
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  14. #194
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    Moncada has definitely been a under-achiever every year - except 2019.
    The team collectively has been a little slow out of the gate so he deserves a little slack, but by the end of June if he isn't getting it done then it's time to seriously reconsider - IMO.
    They have options to replace him.
    His war up until this year says otherwise doesn't it?

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  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    His war up until this year says otherwise doesn't it?

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    It just it really frustrating for me to watch Moncada. To me he would be very easy to pitch to because his swing is always the same and the part of the plate to avoid is very small. Watch him sometimes. Its always the same swing. Elevated swing. His danger zone is a mid zone pitch on the inside of the plate. The pitcher will pitch him with hard stuff up when they get ahead and he will swing at it and tie himself up. They will start him with breaking stuff and get him to roll his hands and get ground balls because he cannot keep his hands back. Its almost like climbing a ladder with him.

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