Ukraine

[ciaban2.0]

So as this part of the world starts to heat up, and were getting more and more rhetoric from DC about impending war, I can't help but feel like, this should have it's own thread to discuss what's going on.

[ciaban2.0]

My questions to this forum, what do you think of what's going on in Ukraine, how did we get here, what do you think happens moving forward.

[dbroncos78087]

It’s very tough since Ukraine isn’t a signatory to NATO so we don’t have a treaty obligation to defend them. But letting Russia take part or all of their country is wrong to me. I support every measure to provide them weaponry to defend themselves. I believe we should embed our troops to train with theirs in an effort to force Russia to really consider whether they want to escalate that strongly.

[dbroncsinmo]

It’s very tough since Ukraine isn’t a signatory to NATO so we don’t have a treaty obligation to defend them. But letting Russia take part or all of their country is wrong to me. I support every measure to provide them weaponry to defend themselves. I believe we should embed our troops to train with theirs in an effort to force Russia to really consider whether they want to escalate that strongly.

So in other words, Joe is trying to get us in a war in an attempt to save the sinking ship known as his administration and antiwar boy is on board because it's the partisan thing to do.

[valade16]

I don't think any Western power wants to get into a war with Russia over Ukraine. I expect the US and Europe to engage in a proxy war, supplying them weapons and other ancillary support. I don't know what Russia is going to do, but mobilizing this many troops and equipment at the border indefinitely is obscenely expensive.

[spliff(TONE)]

[WES445]

I don't think any Western power wants to get into a war with Russia over Ukraine. I expect the US and Europe to engage in a proxy war, supplying them weapons and other ancillary support. I don't know what Russia is going to do, but mobilizing this many troops and equipment at the border indefinitely is obscenely expensive.

Yeah, and he can't pull back without getting something for his effort.

[ortforshort]

After a while it gets really tiring following all of these wars the US involves itself in.

Unclear to me, on any level, why this is happening.

I don't have the stamina to try to figure out what the angles are - on both sides, but particularly for the US.

It would be nice if someone could explain a) the official BS reason that the US is doing this and b) the underlying real reason the US considers this situation war-worthy.

To me, from Russia's standpoint, this is a local thing. It wasn't too long ago that the Ukraine was part of Russia and the reasons that Russia is doing this has absolutely nothing to do with impending global domination or trying to create some sort of a monster country to compete on a global scale with the US and China and more to do with a border type of skirmish with a neighbouring state.

I don't get why the US would be willing to risk a war in a part of the world it has no business meddling in, but when has that ever stopped the US in the past. When in doubt, follow the money. If I were to guess, it would have something to do with gas and oil fields or pipelines. Those things really seem to get the US Government's / Military's juices going.

As far as NATO, if they want gas or oil, they need to trail behind the US in whatever it does.

If anyone has an educated take on this situation, I would appreciate if you share it

[dbroncos78087]

After a while it gets really tiring following all of these wars the US involves itself in.

Unclear to me, on any level, why this is happening.

I don't have the stamina to try to figure out what the angles are - on both sides, but particularly for the US.

It would be nice if someone could explain a) the official BS reason that the US is doing this and b) the underlying real reason the US considers this situation war-worthy.

To me, from Russia's standpoint, this is a local thing. It wasn't too long ago that the Ukraine was part of Russia and the reasons that Russia is doing this has absolutely nothing to do with impending global domination or trying to create some sort of a monster country to compete on a global scale with the US and China and more to do with a border type of skirmish with a neighbouring state.

I don't get why the US would be willing to risk a war in a part of the world it has no business meddling in, but when has that ever stopped the US in the past. When in doubt, follow the money. If I were to guess, it would have something to do with gas and oil fields or pipelines. Those things really seem to get the US Government's / Military's juices going.

As far as NATO, if they want gas or oil, they need to trail behind the US in whatever it does.

If anyone has an educated take on this situation, I would appreciate if you share it

It is by definition not a local thing when you talk about two countries. I don't care if a country used to be part of another or not. You're playing into Russia's game by pretending there is any argument that is could be local.

[ortforshort]

It is by definition not a local thing when you talk about two countries. I don't care if a country used to be part of another or not. You're playing into Russia's game by pretending there is any argument that is could be local.

What is Russia's game?

[dbroncos78087]

What is Russia's game?

Trying to re-establish the USSR. They were demoralized and they believe stolen from when all those areas got their freedom.

[ortforshort]

Trying to re-establish the USSR. They were demoralized and they believe stolen from when all those areas got their freedom.

What's that got to do with us?

[ciaban2.0]

After a while it gets really tiring following all of these wars the US involves itself in.

Unclear to me, on any level, why this is happening.

I don't have the stamina to try to figure out what the angles are - on both sides, but particularly for the US.

It would be nice if someone could explain a) the official BS reason that the US is doing this and b) the underlying real reason the US considers this situation war-worthy.

To me, from Russia's standpoint, this is a local thing. It wasn't too long ago that the Ukraine was part of Russia and the reasons that Russia is doing this has absolutely nothing to do with impending global domination or trying to create some sort of a monster country to compete on a global scale with the US and China and more to do with a border type of skirmish with a neighbouring state.

I don't get why the US would be willing to risk a war in a part of the world it has no business meddling in, but when has that ever stopped the US in the past. When in doubt, follow the money. If I were to guess, it would have something to do with gas and oil fields or pipelines. Those things really seem to get the US Government's / Military's juices going.

As far as NATO, if they want gas or oil, they need to trail behind the US in whatever it does.

If anyone has an educated take on this situation, I would appreciate if you share it

Ukraine and Russia have VERY long standing historical ties, both post/durring/pre the USSR, about 1.3 of Ukraine citizens are ethnically Russian and approx. half of all Ukrainians speak Ruissian.


*Russia and Germany want to build an oil pipeline called Nord Stream 2, to ship gas from Russia to Germany, which because Germany shut down all their Nuclear plants now has crazy high energy costs, and needs Russian gas. This pipeline would go through Ukraine, which doesn't want this pipeline.

*After the fall of the USSR a US general promised the Soviets that they wouldn't bring any former soviet country into NATO, during the Obama admin we brought in Lithuania and I think Poland into NATO. This pissed Russia off.
Ukraine also wants to join NATO though they don't actually qualify for a bunch of reasons including corruption, but because they are right on Russia's border, this is an absolute NO GO for Russia.

*As far as the US is concerned Dem's don't like Russia and Putin because of 2016, and then in his two-hour press conference, Biden made a flub that made it seem like they wouldn't care if Russia invaded Ukraine so long as they didn't go to far, that scared everyone, and to make up for the mistake they are being EXTRA hawkish towards Russia now.

*Also, since were out of Afghanistan, we don't have any wars were currently fighting and MIC needs to keep making money, so having the US govt buy billions in guns and bullets and give them to Ukraine is how they are doing it.

TLDR
You have a lot of global interests with money to be made, and a dick measuring contest on top of it.

[MRSpock]

Ukraine and Russia have VERY long standing historical ties, both post/durring/pre the USSR, about 1.3 of Ukraine citizens are ethnically Russian and approx. half of all Ukrainians speak Ruissian.


*Russia and Germany want to build an oil pipeline called Nord Stream 2, to ship gas from Russia to Germany, which because Germany shut down all their Nuclear plants now has crazy high energy costs, and needs Russian gas. This pipeline would go through Ukraine, which doesn't want this pipeline.

*After the fall of the USSR a US general promised the Soviets that they wouldn't bring any former soviet country into NATO, during the Obama admin we brought in Lithuania and I think Poland into NATO. This pissed Russia off.
Ukraine also wants to join NATO though they don't actually qualify for a bunch of reasons including corruption, but because they are right on Russia's border, this is an absolute NO GO for Russia.

*As far as the US is concerned Dem's don't like Russia and Putin because of 2016, and then in his two-hour press conference, Biden made a flub that made it seem like they wouldn't care if Russia invaded Ukraine so long as they didn't go to far, that scared everyone, and to make up for the mistake they are being EXTRA hawkish towards Russia now.

*Also, since were out of Afghanistan, we don't have any wars were currently fighting and MIC needs to keep making money, so having the US govt buy billions in guns and bullets and give them to Ukraine is how they are doing it.

TLDR
You have a lot of global interests with money to be made, and a dick measuring contest on top of it.

Lol. Load of partisan garbage and outdated info that really isn't relevant.

[dbroncos78087]

What's that got to do with us?

It’s got to do with us because the countries that made up the USSR are our allies. Some are signatories to NATO and others are through other treaties. This is the problem with complete isolationists. They think that as long as people attack everyone else it’s ok. I’m not for gallivanting but I am for keeping our friends and allies secure.