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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #3991
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I sure would like to take look at that aid for pork. Not that the Ukrainians don't need our help, but you know how our congress works when it comes to bills.
    In that bill is 178k for the widow of a former US Congressmen from Alaska who was famous for pork.

    It's full of pork.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Because if you don't then you likely have to send US troops instead.
    I've been arguing to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    If it is our moral imperative to fight genocide then it shouldn’t matter how much anyone else contributes, we should do it because it in and of itself is worth doing.
    That's like saying "if it's our collective job to fight global warming what does it shouldn't matter how much other contribute"

    It's their ****ing continent, there are collectivly more people in Europe and their GDP is bigger than ours. If we're all going to sit on our hands and let a genocide happen. Then we should pay an equal amount to do it.
    Last edited by ciaban2.0; 05-18-2022 at 02:45 AM.

  2. #3992
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    What do they mean by "ended its *combat mission* in Mariupol and said fighters were being evacuated signaling that the battle at a steel plant was over."?

    So they won? I'm not sure what the NYT is trying to say here.

    The article says
    "Hundreds of Ukrainian fighters were taken by bus to Russian-controlled territory. Ukraine’s president said the combat mission in the city was over, capping some of the longest, fiercest resistance of the war."

    So the fighters are being evacuated to Russian-controlled territory. Why the **** would that happen? Why is VZ having them evacuated there, that's enemy territory, how is that safe?
    Has anyone figured out what the hell the NYT is saying here?

  3. #3993
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    In that bill is 178k for the widow of a former US Congressmen from Alaska who was famous for pork.

    It's full of pork.



    I've been arguing to do that.



    That's like saying "if it's our collective job to fight global warming what does it shouldn't matter how much other contribute"

    It's their ****ing continent, there are collectivly more people in Europe and their GDP is bigger than ours. If we're all going to sit on our hands and let a genocide happen. Then we should pay an equal amount to do it.
    Arguing to do what? Send US troops to Europe? Risk a nuclear war with a despotic maniac in Putin, while suffering thru another pandemic outbreak, a economy that economists are predicting to tank and the growing problem out west with drought and water rationing.

    You have a serious problem if you are pushing for this. Risk messing up our country more with a war budget with all these things we will have to contend with.

    Go volunteer. I am sure there is a plane going to Poland daily.
    Last edited by WES445; 05-18-2022 at 08:50 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  4. #3994
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    In that bill is 178k for the widow of a former US Congressmen from Alaska who was famous for pork.

    It's full of pork.



    I've been arguing to do that.



    That's like saying "if it's our collective job to fight global warming what does it shouldn't matter how much other contribute"

    It's their ****ing continent, there are collectivly more people in Europe and their GDP is bigger than ours. If we're all going to sit on our hands and let a genocide happen. Then we should pay an equal amount to do it.
    i do agree with that. And this should come as no surprise. Just look at the crap that they threw at Trump when he cornered the NATO nations for not paying the fair share of the cost of NATO? Europe would have falled to the Soviets long ago without the US blocking them Germany and France are both spoiled leaders of the worst of Europe especially.

  5. #3995
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    That's like saying "if it's our collective job to fight global warming what does it shouldn't matter how much other contribute"

    It's their ****ing continent, there are collectivly more people in Europe and their GDP is bigger than ours. If we're all going to sit on our hands and let a genocide happen. Then we should pay an equal amount to do it.
    Actually it's nothing like Global Warming because Global Warming is going to directly affect everyone, whether they help to stop it or not. That is not true of Genocide. France is not going to suffer Genocide from Russia should they do nothing.

    I ask again: What do you think we should do knowing they aren't contributing as much? Should we stop contributing until they do (which I'm sure of course, you'd love)?

  6. #3996
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Arguing to do what? Send US troops to Europe? Risk a nuclear war with a despotic maniac in Putin, while suffering thru another pandemic outbreak, a economy that economists are predicting to tank and the growing problem out west with drought and water rationing.

    You have a serious problem if you are pushing for this. Risk messing up our country more with a war budget with all these things we will have to contend with.

    Go volunteer. I am sure there is a plane going to Poland daily.
    If he were seriously pushing for it. But he's not.

  7. #3997
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Arguing to do what? Send US troops to Europe? Risk a nuclear war with a despotic maniac in Putin, while suffering thru another pandemic outbreak, a economy that economists are predicting to tank and the growing problem out west with drought and water rationing.

    You have a serious problem if you are pushing for this. Risk messing up our country more with a war budget with all these things we will have to contend with.

    Go volunteer. I am sure there is a plane going to Poland daily.
    I was highly against getting involved in the war, and was against NFZ, until Russia started engaging in genocide in Ukraine.
    Once this was recognized by our govt (Biden called it that himself) then we have an obligation to act and prevent it.
    What do you think Never Agagin means.

  8. #3998
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Actually it's nothing like Global Warming because Global Warming is going to directly affect everyone, whether they help to stop it or not. That is not true of Genocide. France is not going to suffer Genocide from Russia should they do nothing.

    I ask again: What do you think we should do knowing they aren't contributing as much? Should we stop contributing until they do (which I'm sure of course, you'd love)?
    We weren't going to suffer a genocide from what was going on in Kosovo, does that mean we shouldn't have gotten involved.
    No Americans died as a result of the ethnic clensing in Rwanda, does that mean we were right not to get involved.
    By this argument, we shouldn't send any more to Ukraine at all, since, Russia steamrolling Ukraine doesn't directly put any Americans at risk.

    We should directly get involved to stop the genocide.
    But we should get on the rest of Europe to contribute more. We can threaten to withhold the military aid we send to these countries if they don't contribute more.
    Hey germany we give you this much per year, well, if you don't contribute more to Ukraine, were taking that our of your share.
    Last edited by ciaban2.0; 05-18-2022 at 04:15 PM.

  9. #3999
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    I was highly against getting involved in the war, and was against NFZ, until Russia started engaging in genocide in Ukraine.
    Once this was recognized by our govt (Biden called it that himself) then we have an obligation to act and prevent it.
    What do you think Never Agagin means.
    I’m amazed at how unquestionably accepting you are of Biden’s assertion considering you have never trusted what he says about anything else.

  10. #4000
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    I was highly against getting involved in the war, and was against NFZ, until Russia started engaging in genocide in Ukraine.
    Once this was recognized by our govt (Biden called it that himself) then we have an obligation to act and prevent it.
    What do you think Never Agagin means.
    Never Agagin

  11. #4001
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I’m amazed at how unquestionably accepting you are of Biden’s assertion considering you have never trusted what he says about anything else.
    Do you question his assessment of the situation? I haven't seen you question his assessment before now. The White House hasn't walked back those comments like they've done at other times.

    Biden has been around the block enough times to know what it means legally to call something a genocide. That's why they haven't called what's happening to the Uighars a genocide. Because that comes with specific consequences.

  12. #4002
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    Do you question his assessment of the situation? I haven't seen you question his assessment before now. The White House hasn't walked back those comments like they've done at other times.

    Biden has been around the block enough times to know what it means legally to call something a genocide. That's why they haven't called what's happening to the Uighars a genocide. Because that comes with specific consequences.
    I’m not questioning his assessment, I’m questioning why you aren’t given you’ve questioned literally everything else he’s ever said…

  13. #4003
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    I was highly against getting involved in the war, and was against NFZ, until Russia started engaging in genocide in Ukraine.
    Once this was recognized by our govt (Biden called it that himself) then we have an obligation to act and prevent it.
    What do you think Never Agagin means.
    Don't give a damn about war slogans, that is what I think. They usually led to death and destruction.

    And what makes this genocide so important to risk nuclear war over? It isn't even as bad as the ones in the past we have ignored. Really, this all about ravaging boners for Putin. Otherwise, we would have ignored this one to.

    The number one obligation that Biden have is to this country and with the problems we have we can't afford another war one year after we ended a twenty year war.

    We can't afford to be the world police. It cost us to much.
    Last edited by WES445; 05-18-2022 at 07:51 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  14. #4004
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    We weren't going to suffer a genocide from what was going on in Kosovo, does that mean we shouldn't have gotten involved.
    No Americans died as a result of the ethnic clensing in Rwanda, does that mean we were right not to get involved.
    By this argument, we shouldn't send any more to Ukraine at all, since, Russia steamrolling Ukraine doesn't directly put any Americans at risk.

    We should directly get involved to stop the genocide.
    But we should get on the rest of Europe to contribute more. We can threaten to withhold the military aid we send to these countries if they don't contribute more.
    Hey germany we give you this much per year, well, if you don't contribute more to Ukraine, were taking that our of your share.
    Comparing the entities that committed genocide in Rwanda and Kosovo to Russia? Really? Do you not see a major difference between the former 2 and the latter? And why they that alone is such a distinct problem.

  15. #4005
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Since you haven't proven any of that to any one satisfaction, I glad you had a chance to, once again, voice your weekly rant on me. Feel better? Any other imagery slight or accusations you want to hurl?
    And then what? What happens when i prove you made this claim?

    Youll run away from aknowledging your own hypocrisy.

    And either youre trolling right now, or your opinions are even more reactionary than i thought.

    "An honest man doesnt have to remember what he said"

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