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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #3946
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Once again casting me in the extreme. It isn't about Trump, Putin or this country, but getting peace in Ukraine, getting their wheat out to avoid famine in Africa and the Middle East. To many things depends on Peace in Ukraine, ie food and fuel on a international level, beyond our raging boner for Putin. Putin has proven that Russia is a Paper Tiger with nukes so take that as a win as well as Putin upcoming downfall.

    Why would Putin even chose to do this again? He actually accomplish what he didn't want to happen. Made Nato unity stronger and chased Finland and Sweden into their arms. Damn nearly blackballed in world affairs. Russians travelers aboard are being verbally attack on the streets of Europe.

    And the invasion is still stalled and a major drain on a sanctioned economy. Who would want to do this again and still be considered sane?

    Its honestly amazing how much you lack self awareness. "Casting me in the extreme?"

    You literally just compared one of my posts to Mr Garrison lol.

    What you don't understand is Putin is not done here. You think "OK peace deal, all good!"

    The amount of hell this guy can raise will only be amplified the more we capitulate his demands.

    There is no such thing as. "Paper tiger with nukes". The whole nukes part really deteriorates that metaphor.

    So how many of Pytins demands do you want to offer? What about donbas. What about Crimea? Does Ukraine get a say in any of this?

  2. #3947
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Focus, we aren't talking about old feuds. We are good enough at creating new ones to be dragging up the past. What? You are a old girlfriend or something?

    Trust Russia in three months? Didn't I insist that Ukraine remained armed in any cease-fire agreement? Ukraine may never been in NATO, but they will have access to our weapon as a deterrence to any future Russia incursions and honor the Ukrainians need for national defense. Russia lose a weapon customer.

    I don't think Russia is going to agree to a "Armed" Ukraine, but that is mandatory due to their actions. They might have face the fact that Sweden and Finland, even if they aren't in NATO, will be bulking up militarily. Once again, Nato weapons buyers.

    Putin, messed up royally, any peace agreement must consider their aggressive behavior in the past and the Russians must accept their neighbors need to not trust them for it.

    Once again, thank you for your critique about me. It is always delightful and insightful to the subject at hand.
    It's pointing out your lack of consistency which makes me doubt your convictions. And the fact you do this all the time. You pick a side and work your way backwards. So you blatantly contradict yourself.

    It shows your agenda driven and aren't working through a moral framework. Nobody is perfect. Everyone is a hypocrite sometimes. But you don't even address your hypocrisy. And a lot of times straight lie and deny it.

    Basically you're full of ****.

  3. #3948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post
    I am hopeful that the rumors of Putin being very sick is true and that Putin croaks, first of all. I also hope that before this happens he sees the Russin army withdrawing in disgrace and his dream of expanding the Russian footprint in the Balkans defeated.

    Also, the world community should make Russia pay a heavy price toward rebuilding Ukraine and basically put on probation. Of course, they still have nukes and somehow we must make every effort to develop defensive ability to take out missiles ala the Israeli missile dome capability.

    No matter what else happens, Russia has lost it reputation as a world power. The possibility of a realignment of Russia, politically could happen and return a measure of freedom to the Russian people. Its my hope that the Russian people will find out what really happened. ANd I think you are right in your opinion that China and Russia's relationship will be different with China taking great economic advantage of Russia's weakened state.
    I hope that if the Russian people are allowed to leave this haze theyre in, no one will have to force anything. Similar to how Germany did with the Jews.

  4. #3949
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Do you think they would rather the war be a little longer so they can avoid another incursion in another 8 years? We can’t act like once Putin/Russia leave they will never come back. They absolutely will with no change.
    I think if your children lives are in harms way now, you seek peace now and figure out the rest later. That is why "de-arming'' Ukraine is a no-no for a peace agreement. Of course you being far away from the conflict would harden your stance.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  5. #3950
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I think if your children lives are in harms way now, you seek peace now and figure out the rest later. That is why "de-arming'' Ukraine is a no-no for a peace agreement. Of course you being far away from the conflict would harden your stance.
    Do you believe Putin would leave the land Russia currently holds in Ukraine? This includes Crimea.

  6. #3951
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Do you believe Putin would leave the land Russia currently holds in Ukraine? This includes Crimea.
    Not a question for those who have bombs falling on them right now. End the war and then deal with future russian incursions when they happen in the future. You never going to get ensures on anything in the world including future behaviors that will suit you when it comes to Russia. You got a hard on for Putin.

    If you really what to ensure Russians never does this again, keep funding the Ukrainians to make this war last a year to the point that it destroy Russia's economy. I am sure it will be worth it to keep up to 30% of the world food grain off the market for that long. The famine it will cause should be evidence in six months in the Middle East and Africa. India, who suffering from extreme climate change, will bearly be able to feed it own. The social unrest will be massive, thus armed conflict. What about those five million Ukraine refugees? What about the economy stress those host countries are bearing to support them during a global inflation surge?.

    That is the problem with this war, it is effecting to many people to be allow to continue. All effort should be marshal to seek it's end within reason for the Ukrainians. In the endgame, it's their needs that is important here, as well as their be able to get their country back on it's feet as fast as possible in this global economy. As well as keeping their military. Their military will be a deterrence for future Russia's aggression. Besides, Russia is on a decline much faster than our own. In another generation, the decrease in population will have it's effect on them among other things. Russia is a fading paper tiger with nukes.

    But yes, let's stick to shoving it up Putin so Russia will never being able or desire to do this again.

    Even with the war continuing, I would be open to lifting food sanctions on Russia as some finance security for them and food for those countries in need. It could be the first steps towards peace.

    I think the Ukrainians have already written off Crimea, those people cheered when the Russians came in and claim them for their own.
    Last edited by WES445; 05-16-2022 at 09:53 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  7. #3952
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Its honestly amazing how much you lack self awareness. "Casting me in the extreme?"

    You literally just compared one of my posts to Mr Garrison lol.

    What you don't understand is Putin is not done here. You think "OK peace deal, all good!"

    The amount of hell this guy can raise will only be amplified the more we capitulate his demands.

    There is no such thing as. "Paper tiger with nukes". The whole nukes part really deteriorates that metaphor.

    So how many of Pytins demands do you want to offer? What about donbas. What about Crimea? Does Ukraine get a say in any of this?
    This is what I met by extreme. You just assume, with no indication on my part, I am for giving up Donbas. You need to re-read one of my previous post where I state what I wanted for the Ukrainians. It include NOT giving Russia a land bridge thru their country. Are the Ukrainians asking for Crimea back or you? Those people cheered when the Russians came and claim them. The Ukrainians didn't in this invasion.

    I get so f'ing tired of re explaining my position to you because you can't remember them over your internal rants. Just the other day I had to correct you on my stance on military arms for the Ukrainians.

    Paper tiger nuke as in their convention forces aren't worth a crap as the Ukrainians are showing us. NATO European members can take on the Russians ground and air forces. All they have to fall back on is their nukes, just their bulling statement on nuclear war.
    Last edited by WES445; 05-16-2022 at 10:08 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  8. #3953
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    It's pointing out your lack of consistency which makes me doubt your convictions. And the fact you do this all the time. You pick a side and work your way backwards. So you blatantly contradict yourself.

    It shows your agenda driven and aren't working through a moral framework. Nobody is perfect. Everyone is a hypocrite sometimes. But you don't even address your hypocrisy. And a lot of times straight lie and deny it.

    Basically you're full of ****.
    You are the only poster here who have that problem. Notice I said your problem, which isn't my concern or desire to address. It is your problem.

    Every issue we discuss wind up being about your view of me. Like I or anybody here give a f about that. It is your problem.
    Last edited by WES445; 05-16-2022 at 10:43 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  9. #3954
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    So Finnland and Sweeden might not join NATO after all.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=uxbndlbing
    On Friday, Erdogan said Turkey did not hold "positive views" about either Finland or Sweden joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Turkey's potential opposition is of paramount importance since it and NATO's other 29 members must unanimously accept any new applications.
    This is an interesting development, since Russia recently cut Finnland off from Natural Gas, which Finnland get's like 100% of it's N.Gas from Russia.

  10. #3955
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    So Finnland and Sweeden might not join NATO after all.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=uxbndlbing


    This is an interesting development, since Russia recently cut Finnland off from Natural Gas, which Finnland get's like 100% of it's N.Gas from Russia.
    Finnnnland

  11. #3956
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    So Finnland and Sweeden might not join NATO after all.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=uxbndlbing


    This is an interesting development, since Russia recently cut Finnland off from Natural Gas, which Finnland get's like 100% of it's N.Gas from Russia.
    Keyword: potential
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  12. #3957
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    I have had to ask you questions several times, to which you ignore them while answering other questions in the same post.
    Your rather unique like that.
    First, if that were true I definitely wouldn't be unique like that. Many here do not answer questions even when directly asked multiple times.

    Second, Which questions have I failed to answer?
    Last edited by valade16; 05-16-2022 at 08:47 PM.

  13. #3958
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    I literally say, "If that means military conflict with a Nuclear Superpower then so be it."

    That could not be any clearer, that
    A) I understand what I'm advocating for.
    B) What Russia is capable of.
    Nah, that was you flippantly saying we should go to war. Nothing about it was sincere. If you genuinely wanted it you wouldn't talk about it in such passive terms.

    I've seen corporate apologies more sincere than you.

  14. #3959
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    It's hard to tell sometimes with Ukraine what they actually want. Because they will put out different messages to different audiences.
    That said, I don't see how they achive these goals without the US/NATO getting directly involved militarially.
    And it's really hard to tell you want the US to attack Russia. Posts like this don't help.

  15. #3960
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I think if your children lives are in harms way now, you seek peace now and figure out the rest later. That is why "de-arming'' Ukraine is a no-no for a peace agreement. Of course you being far away from the conflict would harden your stance.
    I don't see the Ukrainians ever giving up any of their weapons. The West talked them into giving up their nukes and looked how that turned out for them. Invaded twice by Russia since that happened. Zelenskyy will never give up those weapons and nor should he.

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