Garoppolo and Mayfield

[ortforshort]

Back in the day, folks would have lauded Garoppolo and Mayfield for playing thru severe injuries.

These days, they are villified for being gamers, playing when they are very hurt.

The problem for Garoppolo and Mayfield is that their injuries, now and in the past, have diminished their ability to throw to the point where their minds write checks thinking their arms can fire balls in tight spaces, but their arms can't cash those checks because they're hurt.

As I mentioned, in the old days, they would be lauded as tough guys.

Today, they are villified as bums.

Hard to say who is correct as Garoppolo and Mayfield, when playing hurt, certainly don't play nearly as well as they could healthy. The question is is a diminished Garoppolo still better than Lance? Is a diminished Mayfield still better than Case Keenum?

[manbearchef]

Nobody has ever lauded people for playing hurt when their play is trash. Everyone loves to cheer on a player who plays hurt but maintains quality play, but nobody wants to watch a player suffer and not even get anything from it. I watched Cam power through a torn rotator cuff twice and a lisfranc injury and all 3 times it was just ****ing depressing.

[BDawk4Prez]

Nobody has ever lauded people for playing hurt when their play is trash. Everyone loves to cheer on a player who plays hurt but maintains quality play, but nobody wants to watch a player suffer and not even get anything from it. I watched Cam power through a torn rotator cuff twice and a lisfranc injury and all 3 times it was just ****ing depressing.

I remember surf making fun of Wentz for not finishing the playoff game he got concussed in.

Good times.

[Nunuu]

I remember surf making fun of Wentz for not finishing the playoff game he got concussed in.

Good times.

It was more like Wentz started the game and played a few snaps. When he got on the sidelines someone asked him how did it feel to be playing in his first playoff game? He then realized what was going on and pulled himself.

[Nunuu]

The Browns have a stacked roster and did not make the playoffs directly because of QB play. Baker sucks injured or not.

Jimmy G is the weak link for SF and everyone knows it. He is also made of glass.

[BDawk4Prez]

It was more like Wentz started the game and played a few snaps. When he got on the sidelines someone asked him how did it feel to be playing in his first playoff game? He then realized what was going on and pulled himself.

Duh?

[QQQ]

I remember surf making fun of Wentz for not finishing the playoff game he got concussed in.

Good times.

I’m not a fan of wentz anymore but still to this day I will defend wentz on that. Head injuries are no joke. It’s not worth risking long term health over it. Muhammad Ali didn’t care and look what happened to him, so sad. Who knows what coulda happened if he went back out there, if he got hit in the head again it coulda been really bad. It’s a game, what’s more important is being available for your family many years down the road versus working while injured.

[cattusmaru]

The Browns have a stacked roster and did not make the playoffs directly because of QB play. Baker sucks injured or not.

Jimmy G is the weak link for SF and everyone knows it. He is also made of glass.

Doesn't Baker deserve a same chance of needing a change in scenery his realized his talented potential as the top overall pick of his draft class? You gave Sam D that same chance with the Panthers assuming it could have been Gase' fault for his struggles. Other QB has revived their careers by changing teams. Look at Steve Young who struggled to win with TB until he was traded to play under the infamous West Coast offense, learning behind one of the greatest QB ever to be great himself.

I seen Baker enough in college to know he can win in big games unlike Sam D.

[Andrei00]

Doesn't Baker deserve a same chance of needing a change in scenery his realized his talented potential as the top overall pick of his draft class? You gave Sam D that same chance with the Panthers assuming it could have been Gase' fault for his struggles. Other QB has revived their careers by changing teams. Look at Steve Young who struggled to win with TB until he was traded to play under the infamous West Coast offense, learning behind one of the greatest QB ever to be great himself.

I seen Baker enough in college to know he can win in big games unlike Sam D.

Not to mention he actually put up a couple of solid NFL seasons. Baker can play. It's a matter of health and yes, situation around him, but he can play. Not sure what he's done to deserve being put in the same tier as Sam Darnold, but that's where we're at, I guess.

[manbearchef]

Doesn't Baker deserve a same chance of needing a change in scenery his realized his talented potential as the top overall pick of his draft class? You gave Sam D that same chance with the Panthers assuming it could have been Gase' fault for his struggles. Other QB has revived their careers by changing teams. Look at Steve Young who struggled to win with TB until he was traded to play under the infamous West Coast offense, learning behind one of the greatest QB ever to be great himself.

I seen Baker enough in college to know he can win in big games unlike Sam D.

I have no problem with saying "maybe he needs another chance" but its a different situation because he's coming from arguably one of the most talented rosters in the league. Darnold got the benefit of the doubt because he had terrible OLs and no noteworthy weapons.

My take on Baker is he needs everything to be perfect to be serviceable. He can make nice throws but I have little faith in his reads, decision making, and ability to play under pressure. Basically I have him in Jimmy G territory and he's a guy that any team should want to upgrade but might not necessarily be able to.

[Vee-Rex]

Thing with Baker is he just came off a year where he was top 10 in QBR, CPoE, and PFF as well. By many advanced metrics he was "above-average". The last ~10 game stretch of 2020 he was dominating, with 20 TDs and 3 INTs.

Coming into 2021 he had a strong game against KC and was carrying that performance up until the shoulder injury in week 2. From then on he just flatlined. Matt Hasselbeck played 3 years with a torn labrum and said it's impossible to play with that shoulder harness and that Baker should've just gotten surgery.

So at this point - I'm doubting the Browns front office is evaluating him based on 2018 or 2019-Freddie Kitchens. They're only going to judge him by 2020 and 2021, and unfortunately he spent the entirety of 2021 with a completely torn labrum, which led to additional injuries (humerus bone fracture in the same shoulder, knee contusion, heel/foot bruises, etc...). Josh Allen had a non-throwing shoulder injury in 2020 and his performance plummeted in a similar manner, though his injury didn't require surgery and healed up mid-season.

Just gotta give it another year. Disappointing 2021 but I don't think we don't have any firm answers. Not worth an extension, but also not worth dumping unless we can get a clear upgrade. We honestly don't know where he's at, but we do know his 2020 was pretty damn good. The team is talented, but it took awhile for the defense to finally put it together and by then Baker had numerous injuries and the offensive line had been wrecked with injuries as well.

[Vee-Rex]

I have no problem with saying "maybe he needs another chance" but its a different situation because he's coming from arguably one of the most talented rosters in the league. Darnold got the benefit of the doubt because he had terrible OLs and no noteworthy weapons.

My take on Baker is he needs everything to be perfect to be serviceable. He can make nice throws but I have little faith in his reads, decision making, and ability to play under pressure. Basically I have him in Jimmy G territory and he's a guy that any team should want to upgrade but might not necessarily be able to.

Darnold was noticeably outperformed by Joe Flacco with the same team. Anyone could easily see that he was a bum.

[manbearchef]

Darnold was noticeably outperformed by Joe Flacco with the same team. Anyone could easily see that he was a bum.

A vet who was able to develop on a properly ran franchise. I'm not saying it was ever going to work out, but Darnold straight up never had a chance to develop. Hell, Carolina was as big of a dumpster fire as NYJ too, so who knows maybe he'll get another shot elsewhere too.

[d.m.g.]

Favre playing hurt cost the Jets down the stretch in 2008. I can understand playing with normal nicks and bruises that you get throughout the season, but the stuff Garoppolo and Mayfield were playing with clearly limited them.

[Nunuu]

Doesn't Baker deserve a same chance of needing a change in scenery his realized his talented potential as the top overall pick of his draft class? You gave Sam D that same chance with the Panthers assuming it could have been Gase' fault for his struggles. Other QB has revived their careers by changing teams. Look at Steve Young who struggled to win with TB until he was traded to play under the infamous West Coast offense, learning behind one of the greatest QB ever to be great himself.

I seen Baker enough in college to know he can win in big games unlike Sam D.

I didnt give Sam Darnold anything, I dont have a say in what the Panthers do. Obviously I wanted Darnold to be good once we got him, but hes not a guy I was pulling for us to trade for.