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  1. #16
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    I think all the Yankees should have gotten more consideration for the HOF than the votes received. Tex got robbed the most as a one and done. Maybe he doesn't make it, but he should have at least be given an opportunity to remain on the ballot for a few years. Pettite was arguably one of the best post season pitchers of all time and only got 10.7 % of the vote. Bobby Abreu should have gotten more love. I think his war was off the charts and he had one of the best OBP of all time with less K's. The top 4 should all be in. So many people sell Sheffield short.

    Here's another little factoid, unrelated to these 7 players. One voter only put one name on his ballot for Jeff Kent. His logic is that Kent has more HRs than any 2B in history and the writer refuses to vote for anyone else until Kent is in. He and others point out that Kent had a career WAR of 53. Yet, in another astounding fact, the Yankees had a 2B who had a significantly higher career WAR of 66, but he barely got any consideration for the HOF and was quickly off the ballot. That Yankee is Willie Randolph. I've said it many times, the national baseball writers have an inherent bias against the Yankees.

  2. #17
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    If they let Ortiz in, Clemens, Bonds and Arod absolutely should be in the HOF. If you let 1 know juicer in you have to put the rest of the best from era in

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    If they let Ortiz in, Clemens, Bonds and Arod absolutely should be in the HOF. If you let 1 know juicer in you have to put the rest of the best from era in
    The hall of fame voters might as well be a bunch of 17 year old girls voting for the prom king. It's a popularity contest. There is no integrity left in the vote. The hall of fame has become a joke.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Rama View Post
    The hall of fame voters might as well be a bunch of 17 year old girls voting for the prom king. It's a popularity contest. There is no integrity left in the vote. The hall of fame has become a joke.
    Couldn't agree more. I really don't get how Ortiz gets in on the 1st ballot but Clemens and Bonds don't get in at all


    I think it's kinda dumb to let the BB writers to be the only ones that get a say in the 1st 10yrs. Would letting players get a % of the vote make sense. I don't know how to fix it but the current system is CRAP

  5. #20
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    I forgot this but bro's first HR he gave up was to Ortiz. lol

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Rama View Post
    The hall of fame voters might as well be a bunch of 17 year old girls voting for the prom king. It's a popularity contest. There is no integrity left in the vote. The hall of fame has become a joke.
    It's ludicrous.
    It's not the Hall of Good Guys. Hall of Guys who did everything the right way.
    It's the Hall of Fame. That hall happens to littered with guys who beat women, drank to excess, took illegal substances, wee horrible racists and homophobes. But they were awesome at baseball.

    “Plaster saints is not what we have in the Hall of Fame,” said John Thorn, perhaps the nation’s most widely known baseball historian and the author of more than a dozen baseball books. “Many were far from moral exemplars.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/s...or-infamy.html

    This piece offers a very good take. Guys they mention were notorious for extracurricular misbehavior. Their vices had nothing to do with the game whereas PED users, are directly affecting their performance and influencing the game.

    That would fly as a great argument if they hadn't already, let in guys who juice. As Day said, you let 1 in, you have to open the doors to all.
    Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge Rodriguez and Ortiz are all in the Hall.



    Ignorance is bliss

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    It's ludicrous.
    It's not the Hall of Good Guys. Hall of Guys who did everything the right way.
    It's the Hall of Fame. That hall happens to littered with guys who beat women, drank to excess, took illegal substances, wee horrible racists and homophobes. But they were awesome at baseball.

    “Plaster saints is not what we have in the Hall of Fame,” said John Thorn, perhaps the nation’s most widely known baseball historian and the author of more than a dozen baseball books. “Many were far from moral exemplars.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/s...or-infamy.html

    This piece offers a very good take. Guys they mention were notorious for extracurricular misbehavior. Their vices had nothing to do with the game whereas PED users, are directly affecting their performance and influencing the game.

    That would fly as a great argument if they hadn't already, let in guys who juice. As Day said, you let 1 in, you have to open the doors to all.
    Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge Rodriguez and Ortiz are all in the Hall.
    Can't forget about Ricky Henderson either

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    The elephant in the room (no, not talking about Prince Fielder who wasn't voted in) is whether these players took HGH. There is no test, so there is no evidence. I firmly believe that Big Sloppy doubled in size and is a likely candidate to have taken both Steroids and HGH. Also, when we look at the character clause, where's the investigation into the reasons for Ortiz getting shot in the Dominican Republic by what I think was a drug lord. Yet, he gets almost 80% of the vote on the first ballot. Really?!?!?!
    Oh, please.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Cal goes to bat for Donnie BB.

    Cal Ripken Jr. singled out Don Mattingly as the player who the voters have shortchanged, saying that Mattingly’s numbers more than qualify for immortalization in Cooperstown. Mattingly was removed from the ballot after gaining only 9.1 percent of the vote in 2015 — his 15th and final year of eligibility — and both the Modern Era Ballot and Veterans Committee have declined to elect the Yankee first baseman to the Hall.

    https://www.nj.com/yankees/2022/01/p...pken-says.html
    I've generally seen Don Mattingly and Will Clark in similar positions in regards to their HOF cases. Both were excellent, face of the franchise type players that just didn't play long enough. Looking at their career numbers, I'd say Clark is a bit more deserving. Having said that, I'd much rather see either of them in the HOF over someone like Harold Baines. Give me a shorter but brighter career over a long-term compiler.

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...date=&enddate=

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by runnermjr1296 View Post
    I think this was strictly personal. Ortiz is a like able guy Bonds and Clemens were not . And the worst part is after 10 years they don’t give it to Bonds and Clemens but Ortiz gets in first ballot?
    I’ve had bad feelings for the HOF committee before but that’s a whole nother thread
    Arod, Sosa, McGwire, Biggio, etc. the list goes on as far as "likeable" guys in mlb goes. None are in the hall but Ortiz is?? Weird.

  11. #26
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    You know who also had better numbers than Ortiz, Manny Ramirez. He should absolutely be in the Hall. He is the exact type of guy who should be in there. He not only had the numbers, he also had the personality.



    Ignorance is bliss

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    You know who also had better numbers than Ortiz, Manny Ramirez. He should absolutely be in the Hall. He is the exact type of guy who should be in there. He not only had the numbers, he also had the personality.
    I agree that if Ortiz is in the Hall, then Manny should be. Of course the difference is whether writers can turn a blind eye to steroid use. In Ortiz's case, the Commissioner of MLB went to bat for him and Ortiz never tested positive after the drug testing guidelines (though flawed) were put in place. Manny tested positive twice for covering agents, once, I believe, for one used by women for lactation. As for being a good guy, Manny did not talk with the press and any charitable exploits are not as renown as Ortiz's work in the Dominican Republic.

    I guess if he had gotten 30% of the vote and then made it into the Hall in his 5th to 10th year, it would be less of an issue, but to glorify him immediately is lopsided.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    I agree that if Ortiz is in the Hall, then Manny should be. Of course the difference is whether writers can turn a blind eye to steroid use. In Ortiz's case, the Commissioner of MLB went to bat for him and Ortiz never tested positive after the drug testing guidelines (though flawed) were put in place. Manny tested positive twice for covering agents, once, I believe, for one used by women for lactation. As for being a good guy, Manny did not talk with the press and any charitable exploits are not as renown as Ortiz's work in the Dominican Republic.

    I guess if he had gotten 30% of the vote and then made it into the Hall in his 5th to 10th year, it would be less of an issue, but to glorify him immediately is lopsided.
    I could be wrong but i thought the 2nd time Manny got popped was for something that was supposed to helpp him have children and thought it was ok because he was legitimately trying to have a child

    The other masking agent he and alot of other athletes got popped for was some form of diuretics . The more you pee the quicker the substance disappears or in the case of test brings the levels back into normal ranges, at least so i've been told

    I still am in the camp of if you let 1 juicer in, you have to let all of them in. No way should Ortiz, who was a DH, being in and Bonds, Clemens, Arod, Manny ect not be in as well. Bonds and Clemens were already HOFer before they started juicing. Who knows when Arod started but he was probably the best player of that generation, IMO

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    I agree that if Ortiz is in the Hall, then Manny should be. Of course the difference is whether writers can turn a blind eye to steroid use. In Ortiz's case, the Commissioner of MLB went to bat for him and Ortiz never tested positive after the drug testing guidelines (though flawed) were put in place. Manny tested positive twice for covering agents, once, I believe, for one used by women for lactation. As for being a good guy, Manny did not talk with the press and any charitable exploits are not as renown as Ortiz's work in the Dominican Republic.

    I guess if he had gotten 30% of the vote and then made it into the Hall in his 5th to 10th year, it would be less of an issue, but to glorify him immediately is lopsided.
    Ortiz tested positive for PEDs in 2003. The same year Arod got busted.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Ortiz tested positive for PEDs in 2003. The same year Arod got busted.
    That's correct. The difference for some writers is what I said: "Ortiz never tested positive after the drug testing guidelines (though flawed) were put in place. "

    The drug testing guidelines were put in place the next season. It's their justification to be his butt buddy and put him in.

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