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  1. #1
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    Papi in the Hall.

    Bonds and Clemens just miss again, will require veterans committee. How did that happen? Wasn't Papi under the same scrutiny as the other two?

    Are there two more celebrated players than Bonds and Clemens?

  2. #2
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    They could say all they want Bonds and Clemens are just hated players. They had no problems voting for other guys who were borderline and had suspiscions.

    Oh and congrats to Ortiz he clearly deserves to get in. Don't care if it's first ballot or not.

  3. #3
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    shame

  4. #4
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    In my mind, Papi shouldn't be in the HOF, if his cheating contemporaries aren't also inducted. That the real shame. However, it doesn't surprise me, as there has been a pro Red Sox bias in the press my entire life.

  5. #5
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    I think this was strictly personal. Ortiz is a like able guy Bonds and Clemens were not . And the worst part is after 10 years they don’t give it to Bonds and Clemens but Ortiz gets in first ballot?
    I’ve had bad feelings for the HOF committee before but that’s a whole nother thread

  6. #6
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    No one ever proved anything about Papi.
    We may strongly believe he juiced. His numbers may strongly reflect that. He may have been on a list of guys who tested positive but all of that is fine.

    I am also fairly certain he will have a backhanded comment regarding anyone who gets in that might have tested positive... Arod, Clemons, Bonds......

    The high and mighty BS needs to stop across the sport. I hate Bonds but he should be in and so should Clemons.

    If the judges really looked at these guys, they could do it. It's not that tough. A borderline player who is rumored to have tested positive? He doesn't get into the Hall.
    A clear cut candidate? He is inducted.

    In other words, if you can't make the argument that PEDs were a main reason for the player success, STFU and vote them into the hall.

    Sosa, should be in the hall. His production from age 24-35 is insane. Did he juice the whole time? Maybe. But take away 15-20% of his Hrs a year and his numbers are still insane.

    Rafael Plameiro is a guy to whom, I'd say no. Take that percentage away from him and he has very good but not great numbers.

    (Except his K Rate. My lord for a power bat to K 77 times in almost 600 PAs???)


    Neither Clemons, Bonds nor Arod should be held out if you vote in Papi



    Ignorance is bliss

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    No one ever proved anything about Papi.
    We may strongly believe he juiced. His numbers may strongly reflect that. He may have been on a list of guys who tested positive but all of that is fine. ...



    Neither Clemons, Bonds nor Arod should be held out if you vote in Papi
    Your first sentence isn't true. He was on the list of positives when MLB tested for the first time to determine whether 5% of players tested positive, as did A-rod. To the best of my knowledge Clemens and Bonds were not on that list of positives. Bonds began taking it assumedly after he saw Sosa and McGuire getting all the accolades.

    After that, A-rod became the focus, because of a sports illustrated infatuation with him while Papi got a free pass. Papi also benefited recently from Manfred coming out and making a public statement that we don't know if Papi's test was a false positive, so we should give him the benefit of the doubt. This is not unlike Selig looking the other way with Sosa and McGuire and enabling them.

    After that initial testing, no-one ever failed a test, not Bonds (though he did admit to using a cream and a clear gel on his muscles), not Clemens, who actually won a court case to defend his honor, not Sosa, not McGuire (who broke down before Congress stating that he used a legal supplement at the time that was subsequently banned and believe it or not, not A-rod, who was suspended for a year for connections to Balco, but never for a failed test.

    Your last point is right on. If Ortiz is in the HOF, then the other 4 ought to be, especially Bonds, Clemens and A-rod. In fact A-rod and Ortiz were contemporaries and the votes for them should have been so close that ou could slice them with a knife, but they weren't because it became a popularity contest.

  8. #8
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    I wonder if the one guy who didn’t vote for Jeter voted for Ortiz[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    Your first sentence isn't true. He was on the list of positives when MLB tested for the first time to determine whether 5% of players tested positive, as did A-rod. To the best of my knowledge Clemens and Bonds were not on that list of positives. Bonds began taking it assumedly after he saw Sosa and McGuire getting all the accolades.

    After that, A-rod became the focus, because of a sports illustrated infatuation with him while Papi got a free pass. Papi also benefited recently from Manfred coming out and making a public statement that we don't know if Papi's test was a false positive, so we should give him the benefit of the doubt. This is not unlike Selig looking the other way with Sosa and McGuire and enabling them.

    After that initial testing, no-one ever failed a test, not Bonds (though he did admit to using a cream and a clear gel on his muscles), not Clemens, who actually won a court case to defend his honor, not Sosa, not McGuire (who broke down before Congress stating that he used a legal supplement at the time that was subsequently banned and believe it or not, not A-rod, who was suspended for a year for connections to Balco, but never for a failed test.

    Your last point is right on. If Ortiz is in the HOF, then the other 4 ought to be, especially Bonds, Clemens and A-rod. In fact A-rod and Ortiz were contemporaries and the votes for them should have been so close that ou could slice them with a knife, but they weren't because it became a popularity contest.
    Don't get me wrong. Ortiz was implicated. I was being somewhat sarcastic with my opening moments.
    Hmmm. He went from a guy with respectable-good numbers to absurd ones in 1 year. He was on a list of guys who tested positive but claims it was an over the counter substance that triggered a false positive.
    Those names were never "proven" to have used.
    Hmm. A guy goes from 20 hr to 31 hr the very year he was on that list? And then those numbers jacked?
    Suddenly ARod becomes the poster boy for PED hatred and Papi slides into the lovable guy who points the finger at his one time friend?

    Nothing to see here. Keep moving.


    (But my lord, again, 119 Ks in 660 PAs was his worst year regarding Ks. 1 out of 6 PAs ended with a K. Insane.)



    Ignorance is bliss

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Don't get me wrong. Ortiz was implicated. I was being somewhat sarcastic with my opening moments.
    Hmmm. He went from a guy with respectable-good numbers to absurd ones in 1 year. He was on a list of guys who tested positive but claims it was an over the counter substance that triggered a false positive.
    Those names were never "proven" to have used.
    Hmm. A guy goes from 20 hr to 31 hr the very year he was on that list? And then those numbers jacked?
    Suddenly ARod becomes the poster boy for PED hatred and Papi slides into the lovable guy who points the finger at his one time friend?

    Nothing to see here. Keep moving.


    (But my lord, again, 119 Ks in 660 PAs was his worst year regarding Ks. 1 out of 6 PAs ended with a K. Insane.)
    The elephant in the room (no, not talking about Prince Fielder who wasn't voted in) is whether these players took HGH. There is no test, so there is no evidence. I firmly believe that Big Sloppy doubled in size and is a likely candidate to have taken both Steroids and HGH. Also, when we look at the character clause, where's the investigation into the reasons for Ortiz getting shot in the Dominican Republic by what I think was a drug lord. Yet, he gets almost 80% of the vote on the first ballot. Really?!?!?!

  11. #11
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    Cal goes to bat for Donnie BB.

    Cal Ripken Jr. singled out Don Mattingly as the player who the voters have shortchanged, saying that Mattingly’s numbers more than qualify for immortalization in Cooperstown. Mattingly was removed from the ballot after gaining only 9.1 percent of the vote in 2015 — his 15th and final year of eligibility — and both the Modern Era Ballot and Veterans Committee have declined to elect the Yankee first baseman to the Hall.

    https://www.nj.com/yankees/2022/01/p...pken-says.html

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    The elephant in the room (no, not talking about Prince Fielder who wasn't voted in) is whether these players took HGH. There is no test, so there is no evidence. I firmly believe that Big Sloppy doubled in size and is a likely candidate to have taken both Steroids and HGH. Also, when we look at the character clause, where's the investigation into the reasons for Ortiz getting shot in the Dominican Republic by what I think was a drug lord. Yet, he gets almost 80% of the vote on the first ballot. Really?!?!?!
    Yep. Why did the drug lord want him dead, because Papi slept with his girlfriend. But everyone loves him
    Personally I think he's funny and engaging and I like to listen to him to broadcasts but he is no way an angel



    Ignorance is bliss

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Cal goes to bat for Donnie BB.

    Cal Ripken Jr. singled out Don Mattingly as the player who the voters have shortchanged, saying that Mattingly’s numbers more than qualify for immortalization in Cooperstown. Mattingly was removed from the ballot after gaining only 9.1 percent of the vote in 2015 — his 15th and final year of eligibility — and both the Modern Era Ballot and Veterans Committee have declined to elect the Yankee first baseman to the Hall.

    https://www.nj.com/yankees/2022/01/p...pken-says.html
    That's a very cool story



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  14. #14
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    Bryan Hoch
    @BryanHoch

    HOF vote % for players with #Yankees ties:

    Clemens 65.2%
    A. Jones 41.1%
    Sheffield 40.6%
    A-Rod 34.3%
    Pettitte 10.7%
    Abreu 8.6%
    Teixeira 1.5%

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Bryan Hoch
    @BryanHoch

    HOF vote % for players with #Yankees ties:

    Clemens 65.2%
    A. Jones 41.1%
    Sheffield 40.6%
    A-Rod 34.3%
    Pettitte 10.7%
    Abreu 8.6%
    Teixeira 1.5%
    Clemons should be in.
    Jones should in. 10 GGs? That's insane. I think the back end of his career is hurting him.
    Arod should be in

    I love Sheff but I get why he's on the fringe.
    With that said his 96 stat line is one of the most insane things I've seen
    In 677 PAs. 314/465 OPS 1090. 42 hr. and ... wait for it.... in 677 PAs 66 ks. That is bat **** crazy
    He never struck out more than 83 times in a year and always had 500+ PAs and put up great numbers



    Ignorance is bliss

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