Game #47: LA Clippers (22-23) @ NY Knicks (22-24): Cinderella after the ball

[ewing]

Very few come into the league and dominate. If you would be open minded. RJ is playing against many of these same players. He has been with two different pro coaches. Not really featured until now. Took a back seat to Zion which was right during college.

I have seen him first hand. Do you just want players that can shoot threes and get numbers or do you want a determined player who has been a winner and lead the Canada upset of the USA in recent tournament post pros level and who has been around the nba all of his life. Schooled by his godfather Steve nash. Coached by kyrie’s HS

It’s not all about this stat driven crazed marketing of basketball. And history does matter

And what I see is that he is becoming the RJ that I know. He is not deferring anymore. In tenth grade he had to be challenged to take over and once he did. NATIONAL CHAMPIONS YEAR AFTER YEAR

I AM TALKING ABOUT WHAT I KNOW. NOT WHAT I THINK .

Some say his knee was down


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[ewing]

[QUOTE=ShadyOne;34247820]

I am definitely old enough to know the X-Man.

I think there’s plenty of guys that have both the stats and the mentality to win. Mentality is great, but if you aren’t as good or better than the other guys, means little. We wouldn’t be talking about all this “mamba mentality” if he wasn’t also an elite player in the league for over a decade

I think you absolutely can compare players. And those numbers aren’t necessarily all-star level.

The game is 100% mental


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[callmeDro]

I missed this whole game. Looks like it was a good one.

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[nicnac]

[QUOTE=ShadyOne;34247860]

Wild stuff there lol

If RJ was even 75% as good as those guys, we would not be having any of these conversations

All those guys had that killer mentality? How about the ones that didn’t/haven’t won? Or the guys that tried to be #1s, and weren’t. Or had to super-team up to do it? And the ones that did win, it was all mentality? Or was it they were great, and happened to be on great teams?

There’s several different tiers of players in that post.

Not really. Reggie didn't win. Barkley didn't win. Same in terms of absolute winners mentality. Embed is heading in that direction. Harden. Not even close. The list for the top group may be a bit longer. Not really in terms of that mamba mentality. And he didn't have it first. The injured guard on the nuggets has it. Leonard has it. George looks like he may have finally developed it ast year after years of playoff runs just playing basketball.

Randle really failed at it last year.

But we see the game differently. It's the entanglibles. The mindset. ITS WILLIS REED ON ONE LEG and Frazier having the game of his life

Just being on a winning team has nothing to do with it. It just gets you in position to demonstrate it

[callmeDro]

[QUOTE=nicnac;34248193]

Not really. Reggie didn't win. Barkley didn't win. Same in terms of absolute winners mentality. Embed is heading in that direction. Harden. Not even close. The list for the top group may be a bit longer. Not really in terms of that mamba mentality. And he didn't have it first. The injured guard on the nuggets has it. Leonard has it. George looks like he may have finally developed it ast year after years of playoff runs just playing basketball.

Randle really failed at it last year.

But we see the game differently. It's the entanglibles. The mindset. ITS WILLIS REED ON ONE LEG and Frazier having the game of his life

Just being on a winning team has nothing to do with it. It just gets you in position to demonstrate it

Randle will never have killer instinct. RJ may be able develop it, but he has a ways to go. But you are right that killer instinct is not tied to a player's skillset. The desire to win at all costs is what makes the great ones great, but less skilled players may also have the same desire. JKidd was another one, just never stopped trying to win. RJ may not be as elite as some of the others in terms of pure basketball skills, but this mindset will allow him to shine in NY. Willis Reed was a great example as well.

There are players like Randle etc. who crave attention because they see themselves as legends in their own minds. And then there are the ones with with killer instinct that just want to win. HUGE difference.



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[ewing]

I missed this whole game. Looks like it was a good one.

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Team came out shooting really well. Barrett lived at the rim. Julius kept his cool, stalked the ball less, and shot better. He still had 7 TOs and some them were the ones that make you hate him but he kept it together. Q played well at the PG. I think his making plays kept Julius from going into that ball dominate mode. Cam and Toppin got cameos. Obi played under 8 mins. Honestly feels like Obi’s season is over unless there is a Julius injury or a move is made. They team played pretty well and with more pace then normal. The Clips were missing PG3 and of course KL. We were missing Kemba. I think it’s unfortunate that this probably reinforces point Burks and losing tonight on a back to back to a much better Cavs team with Kemba will do the same.

They got this one but the real challenge starts now. Our next 10 games are brutal.

[Dr. Detfink]

True. Julius Randle is not a #1 option. Last season, I mentioned that. He's more of a #2 or #3 option on a contending team. The reality is, his value is at an all-time low. He has 3 more seasons plus a player option. He is owed $104M over the next 4 seasons.

Who gave him that extension? Who signed off?

Is that Thibs' fault?

Thibs can say he wants to continue coaching Randle but at the end of the day I'm left wondering, "What is Leon Rose and Scott Perry's vision?"

In four seasons, RJ Barrett will be 25 yrs old and at the peak of his prowess (which is when Randle is off the books). I may not think Randle is the ideal teammate but the fact is, Barrett performs better with Randle handling the ball more than ANY other teammate.

The Knicks Front Office were shut out during free agency, so they gave everyone a raise. The East got better. The Knicks are no longer catching teams by surprise. I STILL believe the Knicks will snag the 10th spot for the play-in. The following season if none of these young guys make a leap in production, this team easily becomes a lottery team.

The Cavs have finally got it together with mostly guys they drafted. The Pistons are just ONE finisher away from making noise. Toronto hit the lottery, due to injuries. Now they're healthy. It's going to get harder for the Knicks to compete.

In 2 seasons all these team option 3rd year is on the table. I expect the Knicks to decline most if not all of them freeing up a lot of cap space. Do any big names come to play with Julius, RJ, Mitch, and Obi? Does that make their mouth water?

We'll see.

[callmeDro]

Team came out shooting really well. Barrett lived at the rim. Julius kept his cool, stalked the ball less, and shot better. He still had 7 TOs and some them were the ones that make you hate him but he kept it together. Q played well at the PG. I think his making plays kept Julius from going into that ball dominate mode. Cam and Toppin got cameos. Obi played under 8 mins. Honestly feels like Obi’s season is over unless there is a Julius injury or a move is made. They team played pretty well and with more pace then normal. The Clips were missing PG3 and of course KL. We were missing Kemba. I think it’s unfortunate that this probably reinforces point Burks and losing tonight on a back to back to a much better Cavs team with Kemba will do the same.

They got this one but the real challenge starts now. Our next 10 games are brutal.

Thanks for the summary. I managed to see the full game later last night, I think Dubious Handle and Burks late in the 4th almost started to give the game away.

I agree it was better flow before that but in crunch time when the opposing team turns it on we seem to revert to the ugly offense quite easily.

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[still a fan]

IQ played really well, when he came out and Thibs reinserted Burks and pointed at his chess and said for Me?

He just gave Randle a fast break pass he got fouled on and his reward was the bench, he hit shots, ran the offense, had great pace and boom.

18 min was criminal.

Cam got all of 5.

so now you add Kemba tonight, now what?

From my view, RJ was balling everyone came out but him, and that is when his game took a big dip, he should have came out with Randle at that point, he was playing well yes but he was logging minutes.

I made sure to watch how he performed in that time frame and it wasn't good.

His stat line was good, he had a good game and it would have been better if he came out for those 3 or 4 minutes.

28 points on 24 shots isn't having a great game, never was. He was 6-19 from two, and when he was left on the court was that time he just seemed to not have that extra burst.

[still a fan]

“The one thing is just trying to establish a routine,’’ Thibodeau said. “When we were playing well, we pretty much had a nine-man rotation. But when I have opportunities to get him in, I want to get him in. And it was good just to let him get his feet wet a little bit. He’s working really well in practice. You never know in this league, you can have an injury and the next thing you’re in there. I look at a guy like Quentin. He benefited from everyone being out, got in there played well and he’s still in there.’’

[ewing]

“The one thing is just trying to establish a routine,’’ Thibodeau said. “When we were playing well, we pretty much had a nine-man rotation. But when I have opportunities to get him in, I want to get him in. And it was good just to let him get his feet wet a little bit. He’s working really well in practice. You never know in this league, you can have an injury and the next thing you’re in there. I look at a guy like Quentin. He benefited from everyone being out, got in there played well and he’s still in there.’’

Doesn’t sound like Cam will log many mins. Thibs definitely is a big believer in the power of routine. It is one of the things I think makes sense but is overemphasized in his philosophy


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[ShadyOne]

Doesn’t sound like Cam will log many mins. Thibs definitely is a big believer in the power of routine. It is one of the things I think makes sense but is overemphasized in his philosophy


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Routine, and stability is good. But you need to know when to deviate from that

He absolutely has zero feel for that. It’s like a baseball manager that 100% goes by the analytics, and the matchup data. Sometimes, you need to read the situation, and go with your gut. That’s what makes great coaches great, and others constantly fall short

[Bivory]

Doesn’t sound like Cam will log many mins. Thibs definitely is a big believer in the power of routine. It is one of the things I think makes sense but is overemphasized in his philosophy


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Routine and etc all sounds nice when you're playing well but the Knicks are not playing well. This is Thibs way of letting fans and mgt know, he has no intentions on playing Reddish unless an injury occurs or he goes in the game and turns into batman.

[still a fan]

Doesn’t sound like Cam will log many mins. Thibs definitely is a big believer in the power of routine. It is one of the things I think makes sense but is overemphasized in his philosophy


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43 min for RJ was just ridiculous when you do have a Cam on the bench who looked to move well, and now you have a game tonight against a good young Clev team.

So now you will have Burks get his minutes and some of those extra minutes RJ got last night, probably close to 10 less in a back to back so Burks will get his 15

Meanwhile Knox logged 11 min last night, he was probably the worse player on the court for the Hawks but got 11 min, if it's show case or to just see what you have and that team has better wings than we do, I find it interesting.

all of a sudden Thibs says he likes a 9 man rotation, BS, that is when Covid hit, and it was still rare, Just be freakn honest, I had a fairy tale coach, one of my pet peeves, just be honest.

Just like our previous HC with the always i have him ready in my hip pocket, just tell the truth.

I hope this FO is awake and paying attention to Thibs coaching and makes some sort of move, you traded a first and a valuable expiring, the only one we had, so i'm sure it wasn't to come here and sit when you knew he wanted out to get more playing time?

Why trade for a player who complained playing 23 min to just sit him, is that close to having logic?

[still a fan]

So I guess 8 min for Obi now is part of a 9 man rotation?

Playing well, we just beat a Clipper team where Morris shot 0-8 or 9 and just got by, and before that lost to Pels, Wolves and Hornets,

We did piss poor in the weakest of schedules in the entire nba and he goes with that line?