2022, and the GOAT, Lebron James is still the best player in the NBA

[IKnowHoops]

You don't understand, every player back then was better than the players of today. Kukoc is better than Luka and would be the NBA MVP if he played in this era.

I see that…now (Frank Drebin voice when he realizes “I love you” was the name of a ship)

[valade16]

You have no idea of who Toni Kukoc was when he left Europe, you also had no idea of who Luka Doncic was. Or Giannis. Yet here I was saying they'd take the NBA by storm with relative ease, given how low the expectations were from there.

If you don't understand how bad European basketball is now (due to the bigger NBA drain) and how dominant European players were in the past, you just shut up and listen to those who do.

I'm pretty sure you also expected a team of Lebron, Wade, Paul, Howard, Joe Johnson, Melo and so many other NBA great talents to beat a louzy Greek team in 2006, but they got their ***** handed to them. And we were actually quite confident that we'd pull it off. The European talent is nowhere near that mid 80s to mid 2000s period, there's just a couple of players and guys like Jokic wreck havoc to the NBA when we had 10 of those in the 90s and no one thought of them as generational talents. 3/4 of them didn't even bother to go to the NBA.

Doncic is an immense player, I've been following him since he was 15 and urged teams to sign him. But he ain't Toni Kukoc from his younger years. Higher ceiling, though due to better mentality.

Kukoc certainly didn't take the NBA by storm, nor did any European player in the 90's. So the idea that there were all these europeans "wreaking havoc" in the NBA in the 90's to mid 00's is just nonsense. Dirk was literally the only European leading a team and winning MVPs at that point.

I'm glad you were confident you could beat a 21 year old LeBron James, but it's worth pointing out the US 8-1 and their +/- was +20.5. Since then the US has gone 58-2 in non-scrimmage International Competition. So maybe the "less soft" Europeans today aren't as good as their American counterparts considering they lose 90%+ of the time against them.


But that's besides the point. Imagine my surprise to discover your golden age fallacy extends to European players as well. If anyone thinks Kukoc is better than Giannis or Jokic, they are off their rocker. And Kukoc would be the first one to tell you that.

[IKnowHoops]

When did I say that the 96 team wasn't phenomenal?
It wasn't a superteam, as it was not made up of two top 5 players, or two top 10 players, it was the #1 guy and the second highest rated player was barely top 15 while the rest of the cast weren't really all star calibre at the time.

Hence, not a superteam by 1996 standards. Just an amazing team.

They'd be a superteam by 2010s standards because all those guys would have been much higher rated in that era than their own, so what you're doing here is recognizing how much harder the NBA was at the time and how this "superteam" thing wasn't a thing back then. Well done, I hope you learn when you strike out because you have a lot of that going on.

Kukoc doe

[IKnowHoops]

You have no idea of who Toni Kukoc was when he left Europe, you also had no idea of who Luka Doncic was. Or Giannis. Yet here I was saying they'd take the NBA by storm with relative ease, given how low the expectations were from there.

If you don't understand how bad European basketball is now (due to the bigger NBA drain) and how dominant European players were in the past, you just shut up and listen to those who do.

I'm pretty sure you also expected a team of Lebron, Wade, Paul, Howard, Joe Johnson, Melo and so many other NBA great talents to beat a louzy Greek team in 2006, but they got their ***** handed to them. And we were actually quite confident that we'd pull it off. The European talent is nowhere near that mid 80s to mid 2000s period, there's just a couple of players and guys like Jokic wreck havoc to the NBA when we had 10 of those in the 90s and no one thought of them as generational talents. 3/4 of them didn't even bother to go to the NBA.

Doncic is an immense player, I've been following him since he was 15 and urged teams to sign him. But he ain't Toni Kukoc from his younger years. Higher ceiling, though due to better mentality.

Yeah he got to the league and he wasn’t better the Petrovik. He was soft

Luka surpassed Toni when they called his name on draft day.

[ewing]

They were just a well constructed team both times, like what the 04 Pistons with Jordan on the squad instead of Chauncey.

I can see it. Paxson= Hamilton, young Scottie= Prince, Grant = Sheed, Bill = Ben. Why are you the first person to ever think this?


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[valade16]

I can see it. Paxson= Hamilton, young Scottie= Prince, Grant = Sheed, Bill = Ben. Why you the first person to ever think this?

The comparisons in terms of playstyle are accurate but the talent level is certainly not. Pretty much all of the 04 Pistons players were superior to Jordan's teammates (except Pippen) while Jordan was obviously far superior to Chauncey.

[smith&wesson]

I just want to understand standards here.

Robinson + Elliott + Rodman + Avery + Del Negro + Person = No super team

Jordan + Pippen + Rodman + Kukoc + Harper + Kerr = Super team

Did I get it correct?

BTW, Kukoc was not part of the 1st 3 peat.

Because Rodman was a wild card. And he made it no secret that he didn’t want to be in SA. It took MJ and Phil to keep him in line and even they struggled with that.

But his talent defensively + rebounding were undeniably elite. So I don’t to no how the goat + Pippen + Rodman + a solid supporting cast is not a super team?

MJ, Pippen, Rodman > Lebrons, Wade, Bosh for me. So if you considered the Heatles a super team, I would think it’s rational to think the the bulls 2nd 3peat team was as well.

With respect to SA. I think they had Wilkins too no? And Robinson got injured for an entire year which enabled them to get Duncan. But yeah if Rodman was engaged and invested in the team they had the potential to become a super team. I think they eventually did under the Duncan era but they cut their losses with a Rodman by then.

[smith&wesson]

I can see it. Paxson= Hamilton, young Scottie= Prince, Grant = Sheed, Bill = Ben. Why are you the first person to ever think this?


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Yeah I can see it too. They weren’t a super team their first 3peat but they were still a pretty dam good team.

MJ/Pippen/Grant/Paxon/Purdue/Cartwright, and then adding Kukoc & Longly in 94. I don’t know how people can think that at that time it wasn’t a very talented team. And I’d also like to add, at the time which team was more talented?

[goingfor28]

Someone who complains, flops, handpicks teammates etc the way LeBron has will never be the GOAT. Not to mentioned how ****ing soft he is.

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[Pierzynski4Prez]

The amount of stupidity in this thread is astonishing.


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[IKnowHoops]

I can see it. Paxson= Hamilton, young Scottie= Prince, Grant = Sheed, Bill = Ben. Why are you the first person to ever think this?


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Scottie is better than anyone on that team. Prince lol.

[IKnowHoops]

He made Larry Bird and Magic Johnson kind of opponents praise him and say that he was better than them?

Oops

While they beat on him

[blams]

I can see it. Paxson= Hamilton, young Scottie= Prince, Grant = Sheed, Bill = Ben. Why are you the first person to ever think this?


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Are you seriously implying the Pistons were more talented than the 90s Bulls first 3 peat lol

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[IKnowHoops]

The comparisons in terms of playstyle are accurate but the talent level is certainly not. Pretty much all of the 04 Pistons players were superior to Jordan's teammates (except Pippen) while Jordan was obviously far superior to Chauncey.

I agree with all of this. I was saying they were the same play style and that the collection of talent when you consider a Jordan and Pippen are above all on both teams, then it was a bunch of guys that work hard and do there job and are coached perfectly to do there jobs perfectly.

[ewing]

Are you seriously implying the Pistons were more talented than the 90s Bulls first 3 peat lol

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No. the Bulls had Micheal Jordan


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