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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Did you just use a term that didn't even exist until what like 1992? Lovely.

    I am going to ignore the rabbit trail you have created but go have fun with that.

    The FACT is at retirement, no one was better at DH than Harold Baines. Your feelings and $10 gets you a Venti at Starbucks with a nice tip for the barista.
    With Baines' last 3 years being below league average offensively, I would argue that you are incorrect. Baines' last 3 years were during the WAR era and he was below replacement level. A decent AAA hitter would have done as well. He was not the best DH when he retired.
    And I do not frequent Starbucks. I find their product overpriced and below average in quality.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Did you just use a term that didn't even exist until what like 1992? Lovely.

    I am going to ignore the rabbit trail you have created but go have fun with that.

    The FACT is at retirement, no one was better at DH than Harold Baines. Your feelings and $10 gets you a Venti at Starbucks with a nice tip for the barista.
    Adjust your argument or give up Brett. As an additional WS lifelong fan, I also believe HB got in suspiciously and doesn’t merit having the numbers to belong. Hall of very good, yes. Just like Paulie and Buehrle.

    Have you even looked at Baines production “at the time of retirement” compared to Martinez. Or as stated the the few years before?

    Again adjust your argument. I agree without the 81 strike he’s a 3000k hitter right there. Add in 94 and he was definitely robbed of that accomplishment which in my opinion should punch his ticket. Also that holds him from falling a little higher in all time leader boards in a few other categories since he was affected by both strikes.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    Adjust your argument or give up Brett. As an additional WS lifelong fan, I also believe HB got in suspiciously and doesn’t merit having the numbers to belong. Hall of very good, yes. Just like Paulie and Buehrle.

    Have you even looked at Baines production “at the time of retirement” compared to Martinez. Or as stated the the few years before?

    Again adjust your argument. I agree without the 81 strike he’s a 3000k hitter right there. Add in 94 and he was definitely robbed of that accomplishment which in my opinion should punch his ticket. Also that holds him from falling a little higher in all time leader boards in a few other categories since he was affected by both strikes.
    This is a better argument at least.


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  4. #154
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    You are drafting an all time team who you taking Ron santo or Harold baines


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  5. #155
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    Neither.

  6. #156
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    Would easily put Santo at DH before Baines but who knows if he was cut out for such a specialized position

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Santo is a bordeline case. It took multiple rule changes to get him in.
    Santo is a hall of famer. He should have gotten in sooner. His numbers were good enough, and he had to deal with diabetes at a time when the world didn't know a lot about it at the time.

  8. #158
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    OhSoSlick is offline Formerly RCSownsU - PSDs Sexiest Fireman
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    Wait, according to Brett, Santo is borderline but Baines wasn't borderline?

    [emoji1787][emoji1787]

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManningToTyree View Post
    You are drafting an all time team who you taking Ron santo or Harold baines


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    Baines over anyone. Even prime Bonds.

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  10. #160
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    OhSoSlick is offline Formerly RCSownsU - PSDs Sexiest Fireman
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    Baines over anyone. Even prime Bonds.

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    Even prime A-rod? [emoji848][emoji848][emoji15][emoji15][emoji15][emoji15][emoji50][emoji50]

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    With Baines' last 3 years being below league average offensively, I would argue that you are incorrect. Baines' last 3 years were during the WAR era and he was below replacement level. A decent AAA hitter would have done as well. He was not the best DH when he retired.
    And I do not frequent Starbucks. I find their product overpriced and below average in quality.
    I visit only because I am asked by the family.

    ok, back to Baines. You are confusing best active DH at the moment vs retiring as the best DH of all time for a career. It's the later that matters.
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    Adjust your argument or give up Brett. As an additional WS lifelong fan, I also believe HB got in suspiciously and doesn’t merit having the numbers to belong. Hall of very good, yes. Just like Paulie and Buehrle.

    Have you even looked at Baines production “at the time of retirement” compared to Martinez. Or as stated the the few years before?

    Again adjust your argument. I agree without the 81 strike he’s a 3000k hitter right there. Add in 94 and he was definitely robbed of that accomplishment which in my opinion should punch his ticket. Also that holds him from falling a little higher in all time leader boards in a few other categories since he was affected by both strikes.
    Why is "at retirement being the best" such a hard concept? If you could answer that we might have something.
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManningToTyree View Post
    You are drafting an all time team who you taking Ron santo or Harold baines


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    Neither. But you go ahead and draft either.
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmac View Post
    Santo is a hall of famer. He should have gotten in sooner. His numbers were good enough, and he had to deal with diabetes at a time when the world didn't know a lot about it at the time.
    and his numbers were not that great. Sorry, it took lots of rule changes for him to get in. I'm ok with him being in, but I completely understand why he was out.
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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Why is "at retirement being the best" such a hard concept? If you could answer that we might have something.
    You keep saying it but it’s not true.

    When Baines retired, Martinez had better numbers at DH even though he (Martinez) didn’t retire until a few years later. It can be argued that Thomas even had better numbers at the time Baines retired too.

    You don’t ignore active players when someone retires.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

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