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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmac View Post
    Yeah, Baines definitely shouldn't have gotten in.
    So you believe as well that the best should not get in
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    His numbers were the best ever at the DH spot. Shouldn't the best get in?
    This is a laughably weak argument aka par for the course with you.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManningToTyree View Post
    Sure on paper but they are unlikable people who also cheated. Idc anymore personally but you can understand why they are not in can’t you?


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    No, I honestly can't. Their numbers are incredible and if they aren't in the hall of fame then nobody should be.

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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Then for you as well, the best players don't belong. No one was better than Baines at retirement. Seems to me a no-brainer.
    Sorry Brett. Edgar Martinez was a far better DH than Baines was. Harold Baines was a good ballplayer, one that could have played on my team anytime, but he was not a great player, statistically. 38.7 WAR over a 22 year career (1980-2001) is not particularly impressive. His career OPS+ was 121 - 21% above major league average. Compared to Edgar Martinez, (1987-2004), 68.4 WAR, 147 OPS+, there is no comparison. David Ortiz (1997-2016) had 55.3 WAR and 141 OPS+ for his career.
    Baines is not even close to either of these guys. Martinez got in and Ortiz likely will.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Sorry Brett. Edgar Martinez was a far better DH than Baines was. Harold Baines was a good ballplayer, one that could have played on my team anytime, but he was not a great player, statistically. 38.7 WAR over a 22 year career (1980-2001) is not particularly impressive. His career OPS+ was 121 - 21% above major league average. Compared to Edgar Martinez, (1987-2004), 68.4 WAR, 147 OPS+, there is no comparison. David Ortiz (1997-2016) had 55.3 WAR and 141 OPS+ for his career.
    Baines is not even close to either of these guys. Martinez got in and Ortiz likely will.
    Whoa. Edgar was retired and eligible for the Hall of Fame? Same with Ortiz? Bringing those two up invalidates the argument. At Retirement Baines was the best DH of all time and for that he gets elected (should have happened from the writers) That does not mean other DH's are better now, but that's not the argument. You believe the best shouldn't go in unless you have an argument on why they should not.

    There is zero debate that I have seen where Baines is not #1 at DH when he hung them up.
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  6. #51
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    The fact that baines was a DH doesn’t help your argument like you think it does. He added zero value defensively and was only a good not great bat for a long time. His longevity was the only great thing about his game. 6 all star appearances in 22 seasons doesn’t exactly scream “best ever” at what he did.


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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManningToTyree View Post
    The fact that baines was a DH doesn’t help your argument like you think it does. He added zero value defensively and was only a good not great bat for a long time. His longevity was the only great thing about his game. 6 all star appearances in 22 seasons doesn’t exactly scream “best ever” at what he did.


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    No one was better at the position of DH which is a legit spot. Sorry that you can't see that.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Whoa. Edgar was retired and eligible for the Hall of Fame? Same with Ortiz? Bringing those two up invalidates the argument. At Retirement Baines was the best DH of all time and for that he gets elected (should have happened from the writers) That does not mean other DH's are better now, but that's not the argument. You believe the best shouldn't go in unless you have an argument on why they should not.

    There is zero debate that I have seen where Baines is not #1 at DH when he hung them up.
    Look at Baines' last few years. He was a below league average hitter his last 2 years. He had a -1.5 WAR for those years. He was not the #1 DH when he retired. He was barely hanging onto his roster spot.
    As I have said, Harold Baines was a good ballplayer over his career. I do not think he was as good as Ortiz or Martinez at any point in his career, however. He was only an all star 6 times during his 22 year career. He was not an all time great.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Look at Baines' last few years. He was a below league average hitter his last 2 years. He had a -1.5 WAR for those years. He was not the #1 DH when he retired. He was barely hanging onto his roster spot.
    As I have said, Harold Baines was a good ballplayer over his career. I do not think he was as good as Ortiz or Martinez at any point in his career, however. He was only an all star 6 times during his 22 year career. He was not an all time great.
    I don’t agree with Brett but you’re not following what he’s saying.
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    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Look at Baines' last few years. He was a below league average hitter his last 2 years. He had a -1.5 WAR for those years. He was not the #1 DH when he retired. He was barely hanging onto his roster spot.
    As I have said, Harold Baines was a good ballplayer over his career. I do not think he was as good as Ortiz or Martinez at any point in his career, however. He was only an all star 6 times during his 22 year career. He was not an all time great.
    Who was better at his retirement? He was the best DH at retirement. The best at a regular position deserve to be in the hall of fame. You don't think that is true.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Who was better at his retirement? He was the best DH at retirement. The best at a regular position deserve to be in the hall of fame. You don't think that is true.
    Depends. In this case, no, since many other players deserve to be in the HoF instead of him. Jose Bautisa is close in HR, WAR, had a higher OPS and wRC+. What's really bad for Baines' case is that he played greater 1000 more games than Bautista and he was only able to produce like 3-4 more WAR and only hit 40 more home runs.

    He was a good player, but not HoF worthy. Whether he was the best at his position at the time of his retirement is irrelevant.

  12. #57
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    I wonder how much closer to 3000 hits Harold Baines would have gotten if it weren't for the 1981 and 1994-95 baseball strikes.

    Future Hall of Shamers:
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerdave View Post
    I wonder how much closer to 3000 hits Harold Baines would have gotten if it weren't for the 1981 and 1994-95 baseball strikes.
    Pretty close. It's less than a season's worth of ABs. It's weird to think if he'd only hit a few more he would have crossed a pretty significant threshold, but that's what you get when you have a consistently good 21 year career. I still don't think it makes him worthy of the HoF, but he'd also be the only member of the 3000 hit club not to be inducted if I had my way.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Who was better at his retirement? He was the best DH at retirement. The best at a regular position deserve to be in the hall of fame. You don't think that is true.
    I think projection can be done though.

    He was the most accomplished DH at the time of his retirement but Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Paul Molitor all had less at bats at DH (although a significant amount of at bats between them) and they were either out producing or very close to it.

    If he was far and away better than anyone at DH at that time I’d be more inclined to agree with him being in even though his numbers are less than some DHs/hitters now. All he really had was more PAs at DH than everyone else really.
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    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  15. #60
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    Only a White Sox fan...

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