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  1. #1
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    Vikings fire GM Rick Spielman and HC Mike Zimmer

    Looks like the Wilfs are doing their homework on new coaches and GMs.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1466868822988800010

    What are you guys thoughts on possible head coaching and GM options?

    Should just Zimmer be sent packing or Rick also?
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  2. #2
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    I'd start fresh at both spots. I love Zimmer, but it's clear at this point we aren't winning it all with him as head coach.
    Spielman is hit and miss for me.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    Mike Zimmer has become the Kirk Cousins of head coaches.....just good enough to not be good enough while often frustrating enough to want to fire on the spot. So IMO we need to do the same with both of them- find a way to part ways because neither will get us to where we want to go, so why continue trying to make ourselves believe their ceiling can magically become higher?

    Spielman I could go either way on....
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  4. #4
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    We should start fresh and get rid of both imo. Bringing in cousins and paying him what we did falls on speilman and itís been downhill since that move. On top of that we have pushed cap down the road so next year we moreso have to shed salary than have an ability to add, again on speilman. Outside of that the roster is clearly lacking on the oline like it has for years under speilman. Let alone secondary issues or lack of depth defensively leaving us with limited talent etc.

    Itís not all on either one and some of the injuries etc are just tough and no ones fault. Itís been 4 years with one playoff appearance at a time we should have expected taking that final step forward not failing to make playoffs regularly.


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  5. #5
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    Rick is not a bad general manager. As frustrating as it's been being a .500 team always fighting for a playoff spot but just not quite getting there for what seems like a decade, we haven't been the Jets. We haven't been the Giants. We haven't been the Lions. Rick has put us in a POSITION to compete and fight for playoff spots.

    However, he's also drafted Matt Kalil, Trae Waynes, Laquan Treadwell, Mike Hughes, Garrett Bradberry, Jeff Gladney. And has put the hands of the franchise in the hands of Mike Zimmer and Kirk Cousins for too long and that's on him. Do I think that Spielman is a bad GM? I don't. Would I be heartbroken if we fire Zimmer and keep Spielman, I wouldn't. But I think a fresh start at both spots is not a bad thing.

  6. #6
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    I'm so tired of my teams, in all the sports I follow, nearly always being competitive but always just good enough to not be quite good enough.

    I said Zimmer was the Kirk Cousins of head coaches.....the VIKINGS, Twins, in my case Blazers and Oregon Ducks...same thing.......just good enough to rarely suck but never win it all. I wasn't really following the Twins when they won the WS either time........I'd like to experience my team winning it all while I'm still cognizant enough to enjoy it
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  7. #7
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    As much as I have liked Zimmer during his time here, it's absolutely time for change. I don't think firing him during the season makes any sense but once black Monday comes around he should be gone. This really disappoints me because I liked the hire from day 1 and after his first few years I felt like this organization had finally made a turn for the better. Obviously we had strong defenses but Zimmer was also bringing in (mostly) good offensive minds to balance his defense. We were typically one of the least penalized teams and we were good in crunch time. All of that has come apart the last two years. Some out of it out of his control but most of the blame falls on him. Zimmer is a good coach but he's just not good enough. It won't take him long to land somewhere as a defensive coordinator.

    I'm split on Spielman but leaning towards keeping him. My biggest hesitation is that I'm not sure he is capable of finding a franchise QB. Maybe that falls more so on the coaching staff to find the right guy and develop him. I'm not really sure. But outside of QB Spielman has been rock solid across the board with the rest of the roster. I like that he is willing to get aggressive with trades and I also like that he loads up on draft picks. I also like the scouting department we have around him. IMO the Vikings have been one of the better drafting teams over the last 10 years.
    2022 Vikings Draft:
    1: Lewis Cine S Georgia
    2: Andrew Booth Jr. CB Clemson
    2: Ed Ingram G LSU
    3: Brian Asamoah LB Oklahoma
    4: Akayleb Evans CB Missouri
    5: Esezi Otomewo DL Minnesota
    5: Ty Chandler RB UNC
    6: Vederian Lowe OT Illinois
    6: Jalen Nailor WR Michigan State
    7: Nick Muse TE South Carolina


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    As much as I have liked Zimmer during his time here, it's absolutely time for change. I don't think firing him during the season makes any sense but once black Monday comes around he should be gone. This really disappoints me because I liked the hire from day 1 and after his first few years I felt like this organization had finally made a turn for the better. Obviously we had strong defenses but Zimmer was also bringing in (mostly) good offensive minds to balance his defense. We were typically one of the least penalized teams and we were good in crunch time. All of that has come apart the last two years. Some out of it out of his control but most of the blame falls on him. Zimmer is a good coach but he's just not good enough. It won't take him long to land somewhere as a defensive coordinator.

    I'm split on Spielman but leaning towards keeping him. My biggest hesitation is that I'm not sure he is capable of finding a franchise QB. Maybe that falls more so on the coaching staff to find the right guy and develop him. I'm not really sure. But outside of QB Spielman has been rock solid across the board with the rest of the roster. I like that he is willing to get aggressive with trades and I also like that he loads up on draft picks. I also like the scouting department we have around him. IMO the Vikings have been one of the better drafting teams over the last 10 years.
    the 'but' I would say regarding your take on Spielman is........offensive line....
    I firmly believe that had we really worked to put a stud OL together....yes, I know, who wouldn't we have because of cap spent on the OL...but what draft capital could have been spent elsewhere if we'd done OL right....but had we put a stud OL together, we might not be done with Cousins or Zimmer, we might be praising them......

    I, too, loved the Zimmer hire and like Zim the first years. I didn't know it then, but the beginning of his downfall IMO was when he decided he needed to take more ownership of the offense and imposed his will on first DeFilipo, then Stefanski, and has continued to do it with the Kubiaks. It just seems like he is best suited to coach a game that no longer happens and for all the DB whisperer talk, a TON of draft capital was used there.......and we're no better off.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  9. #9
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    It would be a bad idea to fire Zimmer. He has proven to be a winning head coach. However, you can't win without talent. Our main sources of defensive talent have aged or are aging. This is not zimmers fault. This is the fault of Spielman as GM. He has kicked the cap down the road for years. As a result we are playing with scraps on defense and aging players. If you look at other teams in the NFL you are not going to find as consistent of success as what zimmer has had. You have some flash in the pan coaches that burn out but the vikings under zimmer have been consistently good.

    Spielman's misses in the first round really can't be forgiven. He has whiffed so many first round picks its almost embarrassing. We consisntely draft for fit and not best player. When Speilman drafts for best player available throughout the rest of the draft his results are great. We have failed to find a quarterback under him and have consistently drafted busts.

    I really don't think you can place blame on zimmer for our teams lack of talent. You also can't blame him for having kirk at QB. He is given the tools to use. If you want to place blame on Zimmer the only way you can do it this year is by giving a young offensive coordinator the keys and watching him fail. The facts are that when we are a run first team with a good zimmer defense we are an extremely hard team to win against. Kirk sucks up so much of our cap that we are forced to have a sub par offensive line and lack talent in other areas of the field. I think Zimmer is in the elite coach group next to Tomlin, Payton, and a select few others. If we fire him we are going to be hard pressed to find someone better. Give him young players and tools and lets go to work.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    the 'but' I would say regarding your take on Spielman is........offensive line....
    I firmly believe that had we really worked to put a stud OL together....yes, I know, who wouldn't we have because of cap spent on the OL...but what draft capital could have been spent elsewhere if we'd done OL right....but had we put a stud OL together, we might not be done with Cousins or Zimmer, we might be praising them......

    I, too, loved the Zimmer hire and like Zim the first years. I didn't know it then, but the beginning of his downfall IMO was when he decided he needed to take more ownership of the offense and imposed his will on first DeFilipo, then Stefanski, and has continued to do it with the Kubiaks. It just seems like he is best suited to coach a game that no longer happens and for all the DB whisperer talk, a TON of draft capital was used there.......and we're no better off.
    Can you really blame the DB situation on zimmer? Look at our history? We seem to be always be reaching on those draft picks. Many of our draft picks under speilman have been complete busts.

  11. #11
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    I think the reality is that Zimmer isn't a bad coach. Speilman isn't a bad GM. Kirk isn't a bad QB. What we have is a group of maybe lets say above average guys running the show. It has lead us to an average record over the last four years with maybe injuries and some missed kicks as the reason we instead didn't have an above average record to match. The problem is a mediocre outcome 4 years straight with only one playoff performance just isn't acceptable, especially given what was happening in the years prior.

    I think people are overreacting when they just focus on Zimmer/coaching, we saw what he did before the Cousins era. We can all see the lack of pass rush, secondary and at times with injuries the last year even LB's. Ya the defense sucks right now but given the injuries/talent on the field... Duh. He has issues with game management etc. that hold him back but he isn't a bad coach when given the right pieces.

    Cousins is what he always has been, an above average QB that really struggles with basics of running an offense (shifts, audibles, finding open receivers, not folding the second pressure is near) but has a nice arm. Really the problem with him to me is unlike the other two mentioned he is actually hampering our ability to add more talent with his massive contract.

    Speilman to me is the one that I just don't get how people are leaving him out or on the fence about while adamant we need to make other changes. He has been around since the TOA with Childress. Then it was his show with Frazier. Now Zimmer. At what point do we start to think maybe the issue might be related to the GM? Why has oline always been an issue? Why didn't we address secondary and another pass rusher outside Hunter so we aren't left with nothing when he goes down? Why do we never get QB right? The answer is Spielman and even right now we have cap pushed down the road hampering our ability to add to this group, due to him. I don't hate him and like I said he isn't bad but he also hasn't been overly good imo and the lack of talent on the field is to blame at times. Especially the last couple years on defense and the oline. I don't overly trust him when it comes to the QB position either, especially finding that franchise guy which we should be looking for moving forward.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 12-07-2021 at 01:30 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    the 'but' I would say regarding your take on Spielman is........offensive line....
    I firmly believe that had we really worked to put a stud OL together....yes, I know, who wouldn't we have because of cap spent on the OL...but what draft capital could have been spent elsewhere if we'd done OL right....but had we put a stud OL together, we might not be done with Cousins or Zimmer, we might be praising them......

    I, too, loved the Zimmer hire and like Zim the first years. I didn't know it then, but the beginning of his downfall IMO was when he decided he needed to take more ownership of the offense and imposed his will on first DeFilipo, then Stefanski, and has continued to do it with the Kubiaks. It just seems like he is best suited to coach a game that no longer happens and for all the DB whisperer talk, a TON of draft capital was used there.......and we're no better off.
    Iíve said this before but the claims Spielman didnít address the OL is WAY over blown. The OL issues really came to the forefront during the 2015 season after Phil Loadholt retired. From that off season Spielman did the following:

    2016:
    Signed Alex Boone 4 years 26.8 million
    Signed Andre Smith 1 year 3 million
    Signed Jake Long mid season

    2017:
    Signed Riley Reiff 5 years 58.7 million
    Signed Mike Remmers 5 years 30 million
    Drafted Pat Elflein 70th overall (3rd round)

    2018:
    Drafted Brian OíNeill 62nd overall (2nd round) (later signed to a big extension)

    2019:
    Drafted Garrett Bradbury 18th overall (first round)
    Signed Josh Kline 3 years 15 million

    2020:
    Drafted Ezra Cleveland 58th overall (2nd round)

    2021:
    Drafted Christian Darrisaw 23rd overall (first round)
    Traded a 6th round pick for Mason Cole

    Thatís 3 big contracts, two first round picks, two second round picks, and an additional 10 (that includes the trade for Cole) mid to late rounds picks used on offensive lineman. There is also a good chance we would have acquired Trent Williams if he would have agreed to sign an extension here. I would argue there are very few GMs in the NFL who have put more resources into their OL than Spielman has. Not all of them have worked out (obviously) but we do know that the Bradbury pick was one that Gary Kubiak stood on the table for. Rick has been far from perfect in this area but he has put a ton of resources into trying to fix this OL. Itís too early to say this but I would say after the Darrisaw pick that the future of the OL finally looks promising.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2022 Vikings Draft:
    1: Lewis Cine S Georgia
    2: Andrew Booth Jr. CB Clemson
    2: Ed Ingram G LSU
    3: Brian Asamoah LB Oklahoma
    4: Akayleb Evans CB Missouri
    5: Esezi Otomewo DL Minnesota
    5: Ty Chandler RB UNC
    6: Vederian Lowe OT Illinois
    6: Jalen Nailor WR Michigan State
    7: Nick Muse TE South Carolina


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    It would be a bad idea to fire Zimmer. He has proven to be a winning head coach. However, you can't win without talent. Our main sources of defensive talent have aged or are aging. This is not zimmers fault. This is the fault of Spielman as GM. He has kicked the cap down the road for years. As a result we are playing with scraps on defense and aging players. If you look at other teams in the NFL you are not going to find as consistent of success as what zimmer has had. You have some flash in the pan coaches that burn out but the vikings under zimmer have been consistently good.

    Spielman's misses in the first round really can't be forgiven. He has whiffed so many first round picks its almost embarrassing. We consisntely draft for fit and not best player. When Speilman drafts for best player available throughout the rest of the draft his results are great. We have failed to find a quarterback under him and have consistently drafted busts.

    I really don't think you can place blame on zimmer for our teams lack of talent. You also can't blame him for having kirk at QB. He is given the tools to use. If you want to place blame on Zimmer the only way you can do it this year is by giving a young offensive coordinator the keys and watching him fail. The facts are that when we are a run first team with a good zimmer defense we are an extremely hard team to win against. Kirk sucks up so much of our cap that we are forced to have a sub par offensive line and lack talent in other areas of the field. I think Zimmer is in the elite coach group next to Tomlin, Payton, and a select few others. If we fire him we are going to be hard pressed to find someone better. Give him young players and tools and lets go to work.
    The problem with Zimmer is he thinks he's still coaching in 1987. Run the ball, play defense can work in the NFL, but you also need to have the ability to put your foot on another team's throat when necessary and Zimmer does not do that. Get a 7 point lead, try to run the clock out, and that strategy has bitten us time and time again by letting teams come back into games they have no business being in.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Iíve said this before but the claims Spielman didnít address the OL is WAY over blown. The OL issues really came to the forefront during the 2015 season after Phil Loadholt retired. From that off season Spielman did the following:

    2016:
    Signed Alex Boone 4 years 26.8 million
    Signed Andre Smith 1 year 3 million
    Signed Jake Long mid season

    2017:
    Signed Riley Reiff 5 years 58.7 million
    Signed Mike Remmers 5 years 30 million
    Drafted Pat Elflein 70th overall (3rd round)

    2018:
    Drafted Brian OíNeill 62nd overall (2nd round) (later signed to a big extension)

    2019:
    Drafted Garrett Bradbury 18th overall (first round)
    Signed Josh Kline 3 years 15 million

    2020:
    Drafted Ezra Cleveland 58th overall (2nd round)

    2021:
    Drafted Christian Darrisaw 23rd overall (first round)
    Traded a 6th round pick for Mason Cole

    Thatís 3 big contracts, two first round picks, two second round picks, and an additional 10 (that includes the trade for Cole) mid to late rounds picks used on offensive lineman. There is also a good chance we would have acquired Trent Williams if he would have agreed to sign an extension here. I would argue there are very few GMs in the NFL who have put more resources into their OL than Spielman has. Not all of them have worked out (obviously) but we do know that the Bradbury pick was one that Gary Kubiak stood on the table for. Rick has been far from perfect in this area but he has put a ton of resources into trying to fix this OL. Itís too early to say this but I would say after the Darrisaw pick that the future of the OL finally looks promising.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I guess I'm meaning....not that he didn't address the OL, but that it wasn't addressed well. I mean some of that was kinda like looking at Cousins stats only and thinking he's better than he is without digging deeper. With the OL- yes, some signings/picks that looked good at the time, but often still left holes elsewhere on the line and/or picks that didn't work out well (not necessarily on him).

    I would agree now, however. A Darrisaw/Cleveland/Cole/Davis/O'Neill OL could very well become the stud OL I was talking about.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorPride View Post
    The problem with Zimmer is he thinks he's still coaching in 1987. Run the ball, play defense can work in the NFL, but you also need to have the ability to put your foot on another team's throat when necessary and Zimmer does not do that. Get a 7 point lead, try to run the clock out, and that strategy has bitten us time and time again by letting teams come back into games they have no business being in.
    That's just it.....most of us, me at least, aren't saying Zimmer is a bad coach or even saying we don't like the guy. I was excited when we hired him, liked the fire he brought with him...but the last 3 years he's been too involved in the offense and too old school on D. He coaches like he WANTS every game to come down to the last play....and this year that's exactly what he's gotten. Problem is, we're 4-7 in those tight games.

    It's not just Zimmer that's the problem. It's also part Kubiak, who is either in over his head calling plays or has Zimmer in his ear too much or both. His play calling, for lack of a better way to put it, seems 'bipolar' most of the time...aggressive, then conservative, then creative, followed by vanilla. And, of course, part of the blame falls to Cousins, who isn't a creative on the fly thinker himself and too often hesitates in decision making.

    And some of it is inconsistent defensive play.....recently largely due to injuries, but still inconsistent.

    Someone said Spielman missed on so many 1st rd picks. Yes, it's turned out that way- but he doen't make those picks in a vacuum. I guarantee Zimmer had a lot of say in drafting Waynes, Hughes, Gladney....maybe less so when the pick is offense. To say 'give him young players and let's go to work' ignores the fact that he HAS been goven young CBs and the CB whisperer hasn't shone thru.

    In the end, we're just fans. We have our opinions, but we don't have all the answers, in part because we don't even know all the questions.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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