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Thread: Cars and mass

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I totally doubt this is true. It's way too general of a statement. You'd be missing safety features. You'd be at more risk of things like rolling in a lot of cars.

    Why would collisions be less deadly? And would that necessarily equal more safe? I'm sorry but this sounds like BS.

    I just have a really hard time buying this. Car and road safety has made huge progress since the 60s and have massive amounts of research that have gone into it. And I'm still not sure what your helping.

    I have an idea guys. Let's continue to improve electric cars.
    If all the cars were 1000lbs the mass involved in impacts would be massively reduced on both sides. The energy in the system is directly related to mass. The cars with the worst rollover ratings are big heavy SUVs. Lighter cars can maneuver more quickly and thus are more likely to avoid collisions entirely or reduce them (that's borne out by fatality statistics based on miles driven).

    Yes cars are much safer now than they used to be, look at F1 where it was common for multiple people to die every year and now 1 a decade is a lot. We've learned a lot about making cars pass crash tests and making them much more survivable.

    We should absolutely continue improving electric cars ... but even with them the materials used in batteries are finite and the lighter the vehicle the greater the range for the same battery, and the number 1 issue with electric cars is range.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    You have it exactly backwards: they're talking about not comparing models, because the models have gotten larger. A Honda Civic now and a Honda Civic in 2000 are not comparable cars. That's why they say:



    The average weight is actually 16 pounds less than in 1975.
    They are talking about the average weight of "new" cars not of the cars actually on the road which is much more influenced by peoples choices of buying larger/heavier cars.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    And one of the biggest factors in surviving front end collisions.... the space between you and the collusion. And also suddenly stopping momentum. That's why cars now have huge front ends and are made to crumple.
    One of the reasons cars front ends got considerably larger was regulations to make them more survivable in impacts with pedestrians. And we can make very small crash structures that dissipate energy efficiently it's just that there is incentive not to.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    They are talking about the average weight of "new" cars not of the cars actually on the road which is much more influenced by peoples choices of buying larger/heavier cars.
    Unless you have a time machine, you're not going to be able to do much about that.


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  5. #35
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    I get what Scoots is going for here.

    Since the oil crisis of the 70’s and the subsequent CAFE standards in the 80’s, the proliferation of such vehicles as SUVs, Crossovers, and Pick-Ups the US has certainly resulted in an increase in average mass/weight — “The average new car weighed 3,221 pounds in 1987 but 4,009 pounds in 2010”, though it has remained relatively stable since then.

    https://slate.com/business/2011/06/a...dangerous.html).

    So, comparing current averages with those of the mid-1970s is somewhat disingenuous.

    Not all of the additional weight is attributable to safety features; I would hazard that it is also related to (a) subsidized, cheap gasoline, (b) American general lust for “bigger”, (c) stagnation of CAFE standards, and (d) they are safer, not because of saftey features but because of weight* (see below).

    Interestingly, overall highway fatalities remain steady, but — here’s the rub — you still don’t want to be in small car when colliding with big car. “In its studies, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has found that a heavier vehicle will typically push a lighter one backward during the impact. As a result, there is less force on the occupants of the heavier vehicle and more on those in the lighter vehicle, according to IIHS. The organization's fatality data bears this out. The lowest 2015 death rate by vehicle type is for very large SUVs: 13 deaths per million registered vehicles. The highest is for mini cars: 64 deaths per million registered vehicles.”

    https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/a...arge-cars.html

    Overall, no surprises. Sure, we’d also save some energy, but what Scoots might want to see won’t happen until….

    EDIT. There is a kind of MAD (mutually assured distruction) in this trend.
    Last edited by Crovash; 11-27-2021 at 12:02 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    If all the cars were 1000lbs the mass involved in impacts would be massively reduced on both sides. The energy in the system is directly related to mass. The cars with the worst rollover ratings are big heavy SUVs. Lighter cars can maneuver more quickly and thus are more likely to avoid collisions entirely or reduce them (that's borne out by fatality statistics based on miles driven).

    Yes cars are much safer now than they used to be, look at F1 where it was common for multiple people to die every year and now 1 a decade is a lot. We've learned a lot about making cars pass crash tests and making them much more survivable.

    We should absolutely continue improving electric cars ... but even with them the materials used in batteries are finite and the lighter the vehicle the greater the range for the same battery, and the number 1 issue with electric cars is range.
    You keep saying if all cars were 1klbs.

    To make a family car 1k lbs safely fit 4 people. Have all the safety features we have now and make them affordable is a huge ask. Especially if you want even somewhat similar durability.

    Plus you'll still have things like semi trucks on the road which good luck making those lighter.

    It's just not feasible.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The important word in the first statement you missed was "all".
    Nope.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    You keep saying if all cars were 1klbs.

    To make a family car 1k lbs safely fit 4 people. Have all the safety features we have now and make them affordable is a huge ask. Especially if you want even somewhat similar durability.

    Plus you'll still have things like semi trucks on the road which good luck making those lighter.

    It's just not feasible.
    It IS possible to do, but the cars would need to reduce content to get there so it's not likely. But it does make sense to me to incentivize lighter cars, and again, many parts of the world already do this.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It IS possible to do, but the cars would need to reduce content to get there so it's not likely. But it does make sense to me to incentivize lighter cars, and again, many parts of the world already do this.
    Did you mention this already?? Where can you find 1k pound family cars?

    Makes more sense to me to focus on a better public transportation system and better electric vehicle options.

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