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  1. #1
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    What does your ideal offseason look like?

    I think it’s safe to estimate that after arbitration and Conforto/Syndergaard declining the qualifying offer, the Mets payroll is sitting at 180MM give or take. If Cohen is truthful and wants to blow past the luxury tax, then I think a 250MM payroll is necessary to actually field a competitive team.

    So I’ll give y’all the task of putting together a winning team using 75-85MM via trades, free agency, or international signings. That sounds like a lot of money but there is a lot of work that needs to be done. I’ll give the added bonus of a universal DH, so Robinson Cano is factored in a little more easy.

    Mets need arguably two starting pitchers, a reliever, a third baseman, a CF and/or a RF, and some overall depth. The minors needs to be adjusted too, especially finding more pitchers…which honestly, I think can be done with adequate time.

    I’d love for the Mets to sign Correa, but I realistically don’t see that happening. Same with Max Scherzer, so I suppose I’ll be more grounded in my own predictions.

    I also don’t want to trade top prospects. Lee/Vientos I think should be mid season call ups, even as depth pieces but I wouldn’t rely on them to be ML ready. IMO, Baty and Alvarez are untouchable. Making trades for the team might be a little difficult, unless the Mets are trading off of the ML roster, and/or are willing to part with guys like Carlos Cortes.

    So 70MM really doesn’t feel like a lot of money but I think if spent wisely and allocated smartly, that the team could benefit in some capacity.

    QO players seem off limits as well, which takes Seager, Chris Taylor, Freeman, Castellanos, Ray, and Story out of the question.

    I think the easy one I’ve been preaching is signing Kyle Seager for 3rd base…he makes a nice stop gap for Baty/Vientos in the future, is a good power bat, and is apparently a leader who can also hit in high leverage situations. If he would take a 2/18MM deal like Todd Frazier, I’d happily offer something like that to him. If Marcus Semien would play out East again, I would completely change everything though.

    For the outfield, I think Starling Marte makes the most sense. His bat would play well in Citi field and I would put him in RF, letting him spell Nimmo in center if Nimmo gets hurt or whatever the case may be. I think Marte gets 4/72 but he could get more, I think he gets a 3/4 year deal around 18-20MM regardless. I like Bryant but I don’t think he comes to NY, tbh. I see him staying out west.

    Another outfielder would still help though, doesn’t have to be anybody too fancy…honestly, if Avisail Garcia or Mark Canha would be nice alternatives to Marte…If Garcia can be had for 3/60 or something, I make the deal.

    Bring Rich Hill back in the rotation, if he’ll take a 1/7MM kind of deal. I don’t think he should command too much money. Bring in either Carlos Rodon or Alex Wood as well, I think Hill + Wood would be a more realistic combo than bringing in somebody kind of questionable like Rodon. I think Wood would cost something like a 3/40 deal…I doubt he commands an insane amount of money. Signing guys like Vince Velasquez,

    Whilst we’re talking about lefties, back Aaron Loup, too. If the price is right, of course. Hopefully a 3/27 deal gets it done and Loup can keep doing good things out of the pen.

    Another arm I’d go after is Ottavino, the bullpen is generally fine, though.

    And well, that’s about 70MM spent right there…a little over, actually. I don’t think there are any big trade targets out there that would be appealing enough. Buxton, maybe? If there’s a trade to be had with the Twins involving Donaldson, Buxton, and Maeda…I would revise this entire thing. I do think there’s a trade to be had with the Athletics, for Manaea or Bassit, and you could easily swap one or those guys out for Wood/Hill.

    So TLDR what would the team look like?

    RF - Marte
    CF - Nimmo
    1B - Alonso
    SS - Lindor
    LF - Garcia
    2B - McNeil
    3B - Seager
    C - McCann
    DH - Cano

    Bench; Dom, JD, Nido, Guillorme

    DeGrom
    Wood
    Carrasco
    Hill
    Walker
    (MeGill, Pererson, Williams, Velasquez, etc as depth)

    Probably make a trade for somebody mid season, I would definitely target Castillo if possible.

    Diaz
    Ottavino
    Loup
    Castro
    Lugo
    Smith
    Reid-Foley, Gillam, Y.Diaz, etc…last spot can be a revolving door as is the case.

    This team looks a little different and the rotation admittedly could use a buff. If Gausman, Stroman, or Rodon become available to the Mets, I would definitely prefer to sign one of them and sure up the rotation instead of Rich Hill. Would still like to have 6 reliable starters like deGrom, Stroman/Gausman, Wood, Carrasco, Walker, and Hill to really have a strong rotation but I’m curious if the team would be willing to spend that much. The Mets could always not sign Garcia and instead sign somebody like Soler in the outfield and use that money instead to push on Gausman, which I would be okay with.

    Anyways…I think this is a realistic approach. I think the offense would really benefit from a DH, then I think Dom and JD would improve by revolving through the spot with Cano…letting them all focus on hitting. JD in particular, I think will really do well out of the DH role.

    Also, maybe extend Nimmo? Marte would be a safe option to take over in case Nimmo does leave but I’d also like there to be a path for Vientos and Lee because I do think they can make a difference this year. Baty next year.
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  2. #2
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    Damn that rotation is not good though... But probably realistic

  3. #3
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    1. Top of rotation starter since Thor is gone and who knows how much deGrom will pitch this coming season.
    2. A closer to either replace or work in tandem with Edwin Diaz (maybe bring back Brad Hand in that role).
    3. An outfielder preferably a CF to replace Conforto allowing Nimmo to move to a corner spot
    4. A third baseman of the highest caliber namely Bryant.
    5. Bring back Loup
    6. A mid-rotation starter with solid major league experience - bringing back Matz might be ok.

    And in the meantime moving some pieces that will be under utilized in 2022, namely Dom Smith, JD Davis and maybe Jeff McNeil. Moving these pieces wisely might yield a mid-rotation starter or improve the bullpen even more.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Damn that rotation is not good though... But probably realistic
    That entire team is unimpressive for being one of the top payrolls in baseball
    I don’t know what is broke, nor how to fix it other than hoping Baty and Vientos are ready to mash in 2023, Cano fails another drug test, and we strike lightening with some inexpensive relievers and starters

    The outlook is bleak

  5. #5
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    If you are going to sign Marte, why would you have him play RF?

    At this point, I don't think Marte will be coming to the Mets. Combination of 33 years old and initial prediction of 4 years contract plus he seems to have garnered more interest of late. I'm fine with Nimmo in CF.

    Avisal Garcia would be better deployed in RF and he would come reasonably cheap. However, I would like to see the Mets take a giant leap and bring in Suzuki for RF. If prognostications are correct, he could come here for 5 years at an average pay of a little over $13M. Of course, there is always a risk that he could find it hard to make the transition.

    I agree and like Kyle Seager (assuming it is him and not Cory because Cory has only play 6 games at 3B and that was years ago) for 3B and Wood for the rotation.

    I have the sense that Loup will be asking for a lot more money than the Mets feel he is worth. Relievers are always a risk. They can have a good year and then sink, albeit Loup did pitch well in 2020. Nevertheless, I think he will be asking for in the neighborhood of $9M, which I don't think the Mets will bite on.

    Looking at your personnel, there are no huge signings, no Scherzer or Bryant or etc. Seems like you might have in the past been talking about making big splashes but now have settled for less. Not that I disagree.

    I've been saying for the longest time that one of the problems the Mets have, and in fact all of MLB, is that you have a BP full of at best 1 inning pitchers. That is why I would like to see the Met re-sign Rich Hill but transition him to the BP as a guy who can pitch multiple innnings.

    BTW, where is Trevor May in your BP?

    Personally, I don't see the Mets going more than $240M. The mets are strapped with the two salaries of Cano and Lindo.

    Anyway, assuming Stroman stays, figure that is going to add at least $20M, add another $20M for BAez, which I think would be a good signing. That's already $40M. They still have room to sign somebody like Rodon or Desclafani, of Gausman.

    Assuming the predictions of some like MLB rumors are reasonably accurate, I would rather sign obbie Ray at 5 years $130M than Gausman 6 years at $138M.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUDIT View Post
    If you are going to sign Marte, why would you have him play RF?

    At this point, I don't think Marte will be coming to the Mets. Combination of 33 years old and initial prediction of 4 years contract plus he seems to have garnered more interest of late. I'm fine with Nimmo in CF.

    Avisal Garcia would be better deployed in RF and he would come reasonably cheap. However, I would like to see the Mets take a giant leap and bring in Suzuki for RF. If prognostications are correct, he could come here for 5 years at an average pay of a little over $13M. Of course, there is always a risk that he could find it hard to make the transition.

    I agree and like Kyle Seager (assuming it is him and not Cory because Cory has only play 6 games at 3B and that was years ago) for 3B and Wood for the rotation.

    I have the sense that Loup will be asking for a lot more money than the Mets feel he is worth. Relievers are always a risk. They can have a good year and then sink, albeit Loup did pitch well in 2020. Nevertheless, I think he will be asking for in the neighborhood of $9M, which I don't think the Mets will bite on.

    Looking at your personnel, there are no huge signings, no Scherzer or Bryant or etc. Seems like you might have in the past been talking about making big splashes but now have settled for less. Not that I disagree.

    I've been saying for the longest time that one of the problems the Mets have, and in fact all of MLB, is that you have a BP full of at best 1 inning pitchers. That is why I would like to see the Met re-sign Rich Hill but transition him to the BP as a guy who can pitch multiple innnings.

    BTW, where is Trevor May in your BP?

    Personally, I don't see the Mets going more than $240M. The mets are strapped with the two salaries of Cano and Lindo.

    Anyway, assuming Stroman stays, figure that is going to add at least $20M, add another $20M for BAez, which I think would be a good signing. That's already $40M. They still have room to sign somebody like Rodon or Desclafani, of Gausman.

    Assuming the predictions of some like MLB rumors are reasonably accurate, I would rather sign obbie Ray at 5 years $130M than Gausman 6 years at $138M.

    The Mets are strapped with Cano and Lindor salaries but also deGrom's. But that is how it is. The Yankees and the other high priced teams have similar issues. That is why it is most important to have great scouting and be in a position where you are the team that players want to play on. The Mets have never really had either.

    But again we need to trade good young players who will be under utilized or not utilized properly in 2022. If we bring in a third baseman and Cano is the second baseman, McNeil becomes a backup and JD is a pinch hitter. Dom Smith will never get enough playing time behind Alonso.

    As for multiple inning relievers, we have one of the best in Lugo, but he is usually considered one of the setup men so he has become what the coaches and manager have made into an everyday pitcher meaning he pitches only one inning at a time. Gsellman, if he stays, is also a multi inning pitcher as is Sean Reid-Foley. If the Mets get a couple of starting pitchers, then one of Megill, Peterson, Yamamoto or Trevor Williams is the 5th starter and anyone of the others are multi inning guys. The field boss and the pitching coaches need to use them in multi inning situations and therefore not use them everyday.

    Going back to Lugo, I has always desired to be a starting pitcher but has also struggled mightily in that role whenever given the chance. There are teams out there who might give him more of a chance. See if any of them will bite in a trade for something we need more like a third baseman who can play second base when Cano is gone, or a center fielder or a closer. Yes, I think Edwin Diaz should not be counted on closing everyday. He at best can do it maybe every other day.
    Last edited by swbwtr; 11-18-2021 at 10:49 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbwtr View Post
    The Mets are strapped with Cano and Lindor salaries but also deGrom's. But that is how it is. The Yankees and the other high priced teams have similar issues. That is why it is most important to have great scouting and be in a position where you are the team that players want to play on. The Mets have never really had either.

    But again we need to trade good young players who will be under utilized or not utilized properly in 2022. If we bring in a third baseman and Cano is the second baseman, McNeil becomes a backup and JD is a pinch hitter. Dom Smith will never get enough playing time behind Alonso.

    As for multiple inning relievers, we have one of the best in Lugo, but he is usually considered one of the setup men so he has become what the coaches and manager have made into an everyday pitcher meaning he pitches only one inning at a time. Gsellman, if he stays, is also a multi inning pitcher as is Sean Reid-Foley. If the Mets get a couple of starting pitchers, then one of Megill, Peterson, Yamamoto or Trevor Williams is the 5th starter and anyone of the others are multi inning guys. The field boss and the pitching coaches need to use them in multi inning situations and therefore not use them everyday.

    Going back to Lugo, I has always desired to be a starting pitcher but has also struggled mightily in that role whenever given the chance. There are teams out there who might give him more of a chance. See if any of them will bite in a trade for something we need more like a third baseman who can play second base when Cano is gone, or a center fielder or a closer. Yes, I think Edwin Diaz should not be counted on closing everyday. He at best can do it maybe every other day.
    When I say multiple innings, I mean pitching more than one inning per outing. I don't think Lugo can pitch multiple innings. He was in 46 games this season and pitched 46 1/3 inning. Only 3 times in 2021 did he pitch more than an inning. The rap on Lugo has also been that he can't pitch in back to back games. He did do that 4 times this past season with mixed results. So he is not an everyday pitcher. I also disagree about making him a starter. Didn't the Mets try that in 2020. In fact, I think Lugo could be the Mets closer.

    Cano will probably DH. I don't think Cano is all that good defensively at his age.

  8. #8
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    Lugo has morphed into a one inning pitcher mainly because that is what the team needs and he evolved into. He is capable of pitching more than one inning if he isn't used everyday. So far as him being a closer, they tried that at least once before after Familia was traded and Gsellman had better success (but only for a brief spell) as a closer than Lugo. Some great pitchers are not good closers - it takes a certain mental fortitude. Lugo has not been successful in that role but he is a good setup man. One of the things that I didn't like about Luis Rojas was he didn't think defined roles were necessary in the bullpen. I disagree with that approach.

    If Lugo is not a closer (except in an emergency basis), then he needs to know that.

    If Edwin Diaz can't get it done everyday, then the Mets need a 2nd closer and they need to go out and get that person or develop one in the minors which at present doesn't seem to exist in the high minors.

  9. #9
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    I’ll petition again for the dual starter role. As an example, two pitchers prepare for their turn in the rotation as if they are the starter. On game day you hand the ball to Hill and he does his 5 innings, you then hand it off to Megill for the balance of the game

    With elite pitchers (Degrom) and very good pitchers (Stroman), I’d schedule Lugo to be their other half.

    It doesn’t need to be for every starter, my rotation would look like this

    Degrom and Lugo
    Carrasco and BP
    Stroman and Lugo + 1 BP
    Peterson and Yamamoto
    Hill and Megill

  10. #10
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    Lugo was always a one inning pitcher.

    He is much better as a reliever, and he proved that in 2020.

    I'm reading the market is heating up for Marte. A 33 years old player who is now more of a stolen base threat than a homer threat. But speed diminished with age. I would be very wary of signing him up. I would be fine with Nimmo in CF and either Garcia or Suzuki in RF. LF is up for grabs, I guess.

  11. #11
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    Really want to resign Stroman and bring in Suzuki for RF.

  12. #12
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    What does your ideal offseason look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by AUDIT View Post
    If you are going to sign Marte, why would you have him play RF?

    At this point, I don't think Marte will be coming to the Mets. Combination of 33 years old and initial prediction of 4 years contract plus he seems to have garnered more interest of late. I'm fine with Nimmo in CF.

    Avisal Garcia would be better deployed in RF and he would come reasonably cheap. However, I would like to see the Mets take a giant leap and bring in Suzuki for RF. If prognostications are correct, he could come here for 5 years at an average pay of a little over $13M. Of course, there is always a risk that he could find it hard to make the transition.

    I agree and like Kyle Seager (assuming it is him and not Cory because Cory has only play 6 games at 3B and that was years ago) for 3B and Wood for the rotation.

    I have the sense that Loup will be asking for a lot more money than the Mets feel he is worth. Relievers are always a risk. They can have a good year and then sink, albeit Loup did pitch well in 2020. Nevertheless, I think he will be asking for in the neighborhood of $9M, which I don't think the Mets will bite on.

    Looking at your personnel, there are no huge signings, no Scherzer or Bryant or etc. Seems like you might have in the past been talking about making big splashes but now have settled for less. Not that I disagree.

    I've been saying for the longest time that one of the problems the Mets have, and in fact all of MLB, is that you have a BP full of at best 1 inning pitchers. That is why I would like to see the Met re-sign Rich Hill but transition him to the BP as a guy who can pitch multiple innnings.

    BTW, where is Trevor May in your BP?

    Personally, I don't see the Mets going more than $240M. The mets are strapped with the two salaries of Cano and Lindo.

    Anyway, assuming Stroman stays, figure that is going to add at least $20M, add another $20M for BAez, which I think would be a good signing. That's already $40M. They still have room to sign somebody like Rodon or Desclafani, of Gausman.

    Assuming the predictions of some like MLB rumors are reasonably accurate, I would rather sign obbie Ray at 5 years $130M than Gausman 6 years at $138M.
    Sorry for the late reply but I needed time to actually get everything out. Mind you, I made this post on a whim at 12am so my opinions are liable to change until I really start harping on the moves I want to see.

    I don’t think Marte comes here, either. I think he’s a bit of a pipe dream combined with the media pushing him. I would have him play right however, because I think Nimmo is the superior CFer but is injury prone and Marte could play the position in a pinch, and play it adequately. I think having two potential center fielders in the outfield is a must for this team.

    As for right field, I wouldn’t mind any of Garcia, Canha, or Suzuki. I think Suzuki has the highest ceiling, Garcia being the most dynamic, and Canha being the safest bet. They’re all good players, really couldn’t go wrong with any. If they all commanded the same contract, I would probably push for Suzuki the most if I were the Mets, just for the marketing aspect. I think Garcia’s speed and power would be something this team could use in the middle or top of the lineup.

    Yes I am talking about Kyle Seager. I just think he could be another Frazier 2.0 and provide good clubhouse leadership but also play a good third base + hit in high leverage situations. Seems like the perfect stop gap on a 1 year deal.

    I think if Loup asks for a 3/27 deal, the Mets will bite. Maybe not, because Eppler doesn’t have the familiarity with him. I think Ottavino is a good alternative, and maybe trying to pick another few lefties and seeing what sticks…somebody like Diekman or Andrew Miller would be nice alternatives.

    I’ve certainly wanted bigger splashes in the past but I don’t see that happening. I would love Correa, Bryant, or Scherzer but I don’t realistically see any of these guys coming here. I can see the Mets making a splash on the trade market for Ketel Marte or Chapman by using Mauricio as leverage but I wouldn’t hold my breath on the Mets making another Lindor-esque trade.

    I’ll probably refine my numbers and pitch different ideas as the offseason goes on. As I said, nothing is really concrete. I would alternatively like to see Matz + Gray in the rotation, just to sure things up a bit. The players I mentioned though, are players I think the Mets will certainly be in on and should at least consider. Before moves are made, the team has to identify who is willing to come here.

    I think Ray gets more than Gausman but IDK. I could be wrong. Outside of Scherzer, I think the Mets are better off targeting multiple MORP type pitchers, like the aforementioned Gray and Matz. Alternatively, I think Rodon is a good 1 year high AAV candidate that I would definitely target. 1/20MM deal isn’t something I’d be against, if that’s enough.

    Garcia/Canha/Suzuki 4/60
    Matz 3/39
    Gray/ 2/30
    Seager 1/10
    Ottavino 2/20

    Then leave a bit of room for another splash…target a big FA or something after those guys are acquired.

    Edit: as for May, I forgot about him. My point still stands that bullpens are fickle and that the Mets have plenty of quality arms. Bullpen isn’t too much of an issue Imo.


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    Last edited by Zmaster52; 11-19-2021 at 11:04 PM.
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUDIT View Post
    Lugo was always a one inning pitcher.

    He is much better as a reliever, and he proved that in 2020.

    I'm reading the market is heating up for Marte. A 33 years old player who is now more of a stolen base threat than a homer threat. But speed diminished with age. I would be very wary of signing him up. I would be fine with Nimmo in CF and either Garcia or Suzuki in RF. LF is up for grabs, I guess.

    I think Lugo is a multi inning pitcher and would be best served either out of a tandem starter role, like Larry suggested. Have him pitch 2-4 innings a game would be very valuable for the club, and I think that’s where he would excel. I wouldn’t be adverse to letting him start because I think some team eventually will, and he’ll have a few nice years out of the rotation for the Astros.

    Like I mentioned, Suzuki, Garcia or Canha would be nice options for the outfield but I think it’s safe to say the Mets need two outfielders, at least one of which is an everyday player. Getting 2/3 of those players would be amazing but it’s also a bit of a pipe dream.


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    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  14. #14
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    Suzuki/marte
    Baez
    Loup
    Stroman
    Scherzer
    Trade for backend reliever

    I don’t feel this is realistic.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Sorry for the late reply but I needed time to actually get everything out. Mind you, I made this post on a whim at 12am so my opinions are liable to change until I really start harping on the moves I want to see.

    I don’t think Marte comes here, either. I think he’s a bit of a pipe dream combined with the media pushing him. I would have him play right however, because I think Nimmo is the superior CFer but is injury prone and Marte could play the position in a pinch, and play it adequately. I think having two potential center fielders in the outfield is a must for this team.

    As for right field, I wouldn’t mind any of Garcia, Canha, or Suzuki. I think Suzuki has the highest ceiling, Garcia being the most dynamic, and Canha being the safest bet. They’re all good players, really couldn’t go wrong with any. If they all commanded the same contract, I would probably push for Suzuki the most if I were the Mets, just for the marketing aspect. I think Garcia’s speed and power would be something this team could use in the middle or top of the lineup.

    Yes I am talking about Kyle Seager. I just think he could be another Frazier 2.0 and provide good clubhouse leadership but also play a good third base + hit in high leverage situations. Seems like the perfect stop gap on a 1 year deal.

    I think if Loup asks for a 3/27 deal, the Mets will bite. Maybe not, because Eppler doesn’t have the familiarity with him. I think Ottavino is a good alternative, and maybe trying to pick another few lefties and seeing what sticks…somebody like Diekman or Andrew Miller would be nice alternatives.

    I’ve certainly wanted bigger splashes in the past but I don’t see that happening. I would love Correa, Bryant, or Scherzer but I don’t realistically see any of these guys coming here. I can see the Mets making a splash on the trade market for Ketel Marte or Chapman by using Mauricio as leverage but I wouldn’t hold my breath on the Mets making another Lindor-esque trade.

    I’ll probably refine my numbers and pitch different ideas as the offseason goes on. As I said, nothing is really concrete. I would alternatively like to see Matz + Gray in the rotation, just to sure things up a bit. The players I mentioned though, are players I think the Mets will certainly be in on and should at least consider. Before moves are made, the team has to identify who is willing to come here.

    I think Ray gets more than Gausman but IDK. I could be wrong. Outside of Scherzer, I think the Mets are better off targeting multiple MORP type pitchers, like the aforementioned Gray and Matz. Alternatively, I think Rodon is a good 1 year high AAV candidate that I would definitely target. 1/20MM deal isn’t something I’d be against, if that’s enough.

    Garcia/Canha/Suzuki 4/60
    Matz 3/39
    Gray/ 2/30
    Seager 1/10
    Ottavino 2/20

    Then leave a bit of room for another splash…target a big FA or something after those guys are acquired.

    Edit: as for May, I forgot about him. My point still stands that bullpens are fickle and that the Mets have plenty of quality arms. Bullpen isn’t too much of an issue Imo.


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    In general, despite Cohen's money, the Mets will probably not go much beyond $240M in payroll to avoid excess luxury tax penalties. This means they have about $60M to spend more or less on FAs. If you sign Baez and Stroman, that eats up at least $40M. If the Mets also sign Bryant, they are over $240M. If the Mets could hold onto Stroman they would only need another starter. Matz would come reasonably cheap at maybe $10M per.

    So it seems likely the Mets will have to do a deal that involves giving up some prospects. The two most likely and probably most marketable prospects that the Mets might be willing to give up are Vientos and Mauricio. Mets don't need a SS, but even if you move Mauricio to say 3B, the Mets would then have 3 3B top prospects.

    Of course, it all depends on what the Mets could get in a trade. Talent wise, I think Baty and Mauricio are more highly rated by scouts, but of course that is often subjective. The might be able to hold onto Baty and Mauricio by packaging Vientos and getting back something, but who knows. In any case, I do think they will have to do one major trade giving up some prospects. Whether that is for a 3B or pitcher or something else, I don't know.

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