Guns

[Lil Rhody]

If only living everyday people caused as much of an uproar dead as a fetus

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[NYKalltheway]

Also, on the 2nd amendment, wasn't that mostly about a regulated militia? Do you get assigned to your local militia when you own a gun, or do you just read that "right" in the way you choose?

Wasn't it drafted in order to ensure that regional/State militias were still a thing after a federal army was becoming more prevalent?

So unless you are part of a regulated militia, you shouldn't be able to invoke the 2nd amendment. Unless you want to ignore the actual 2nd amendment.

So yeah, BS excuses. I have a legal right to write a cheque on toilet paper in France but I don't see that many French people exercising their lawful rights when it comes to that.

[dbroncos78087]

I think that's an absurd argument.
You think others trust their governments? Apart from one civil war which was even supported by the people of both sides for a long while, what else happened in the USA between civilians and rulers?

If your argument was that the people of the USA are culturally ingrained to use guns because the country wasn't brought up organically like most others but instead it came as a result of colonialism where you had to fight off the inhabitants and the wildlife so bearing arms was necessary, it's one thing. It's also the case with Australia.

You think I don't have a right to own a gun in France, Spain, Romania, Norway, Poland, Switzerland or other European countries? Sure I can. A special legislation isn't required for this and it's not the driver either. It's just the excuse.

There are countries that were born in the last 40 years from war and they don't have these feelings for gun ownership.

How many times did US partisans try to overthrow a government? And how many US governments have been tyrannical?
Pretty sure we can find out that the USA in its entire history had less incidents than Italy, Greece, France, Spain, the UK, Germany or anything that existed in those countries before their current statehood (ie local kingdoms and other dominions).

So again... What's the fascination?

It’s probably something Freud would say relates to an infatuation with the penis.

[joeyc77]

I think that's an absurd argument.
You think others trust their governments? Apart from one civil war which was even supported by the people of both sides for a long while, what else happened in the USA between civilians and rulers?

If your argument was that the people of the USA are culturally ingrained to use guns because the country wasn't brought up organically like most others but instead it came as a result of colonialism where you had to fight off the inhabitants and the wildlife so bearing arms was necessary, it's one thing. It's also the case with Australia.

You think I don't have a right to own a gun in France, Spain, Romania, Norway, Poland, Switzerland or other European countries? Sure I can. A special legislation isn't required for this and it's not the driver either. It's just the excuse.

There are countries that were born in the last 40 years from war and they don't have these feelings for gun ownership.

How many times did US partisans try to overthrow a government? And how many US governments have been tyrannical?
Pretty sure we can find out that the USA in its entire history had less incidents than Italy, Greece, France, Spain, the UK, Germany or anything that existed in those countries before their current statehood (ie local kingdoms and other dominions).

So again... What's the fascination?

In the US, we have car insurance so if my car is in an accident, it's covered by the insurance. I consider my gun like insurance. Hopefully, i never have to use it but like insurance, it's there if i need it. This "need" can come from something as simple as someone trying to carjack me or if our government tried to become authoritarian. We just went through a pandemic and had our government trying to keep people home. So my firearm is a "just in case" type thing. Not sure about a fascination. I've fired a gun under 50 times in my life. All at the range.

[joeyc77]

Also, on the 2nd amendment, wasn't that mostly about a regulated militia? Do you get assigned to your local militia when you own a gun, or do you just read that "right" in the way you choose?

Wasn't it drafted in order to ensure that regional/State militias were still a thing after a federal army was becoming more prevalent?

So unless you are part of a regulated militia, you shouldn't be able to invoke the 2nd amendment. Unless you want to ignore the actual 2nd amendment.

So yeah, BS excuses. I have a legal right to write a cheque on toilet paper in France but I don't see that many French people exercising their lawful rights when it comes to that.

Our supreme court has actually ruled on this. It was determined that the 2nd amendment is an individual right independent of the militia.

[spliff(TONE)]

In the US, we have car insurance so if my car is in an accident, it's covered by the insurance. I consider my gun like insurance. Hopefully, i never have to use it but like insurance, it's there if i need it. This "need" can come from something as simple as someone trying to carjack me or if our government tried to become authoritarian. We just went through a pandemic and had our government trying to keep people home. So my firearm is a "just in case" type thing. Not sure about a fascination. I've fired a gun under 50 times in my life. All at the range.

So it's more like a security blanket for cowards with tiny penises?

[valade16]

I think that's an absurd argument.
You think others trust their governments? Apart from one civil war which was even supported by the people of both sides for a long while, what else happened in the USA between civilians and rulers?

If your argument was that the people of the USA are culturally ingrained to use guns because the country wasn't brought up organically like most others but instead it came as a result of colonialism where you had to fight off the inhabitants and the wildlife so bearing arms was necessary, it's one thing. It's also the case with Australia.

You think I don't have a right to own a gun in France, Spain, Romania, Norway, Poland, Switzerland or other European countries? Sure I can. A special legislation isn't required for this and it's not the driver either. It's just the excuse.

There are countries that were born in the last 40 years from war and they don't have these feelings for gun ownership.

How many times did US partisans try to overthrow a government? And how many US governments have been tyrannical?
Pretty sure we can find out that the USA in its entire history had less incidents than Italy, Greece, France, Spain, the UK, Germany or anything that existed in those countries before their current statehood (ie local kingdoms and other dominions).

So again... What's the fascination?

I never said I agree or think it’s a cogent argument. I just explained the law and historical context for our fascination.

You just always need to reflexively disagree and argue with me.

[joeyc77]

So it's more like a security blanket for cowards with tiny penises?

Well i guess that's better than cowards with tiny penises with no blanket...

[NYKalltheway]

I never said I agree or think it’s a cogent argument. I just explained the law and historical context for our fascination.

You just always need to reflexively disagree and argue with me.

I didn't really bother if it was your argument or some consensus argument, all I did was respond to it.
You can choose not to get triggered everytime your word is not accepted as the sole truth.

[valade16]

I didn't really bother if it was your argument or some consensus argument, all I did was respond to it.
You can choose not to get triggered everytime your word is not accepted as the sole truth.

I literally posted the words of the actual Amendment. What are you going to tell me I’m wrong about why the US is fascinated by guns? If that’s the case, why’d you even ask the question in the first place if you knew the answer better than Americans?

[NYKalltheway]

In the US, we have car insurance so if my car is in an accident, it's covered by the insurance. I consider my gun like insurance. Hopefully, i never have to use it but like insurance, it's there if i need it. This "need" can come from something as simple as someone trying to carjack me or if our government tried to become authoritarian. We just went through a pandemic and had our government trying to keep people home. So my firearm is a "just in case" type thing. Not sure about a fascination. I've fired a gun under 50 times in my life. All at the range.

We have car insurance as well, it's everywhere. It's actually illegal in some countries to drive without it.

We also have medical insurance, which is the same concept for a human body. So an insurance does that, not a gun.
We also have life insurance. Pretty similar concept but for life threatening stuff or life ending matters. Again, no guns involved.

You only carry a gun when you wanna hurt someone or fear that someone is going to hurt you. It's not an insurance policy, otherwise I could sign up for a gun with my insurer.

[valade16]

I mean it’s not like pro-gun advocates didn’t say exactly what I did or anything:

Why do you need to own a PS4? Why do you need to own a computer or phone?

People can own a gun if they want because it’s a constitutional right and a lot of people use guns here in WI for hunting deer

In the US, we have car insurance so if my car is in an accident, it's covered by the insurance. I consider my gun like insurance. Hopefully, i never have to use it but like insurance, it's there if i need it. This "need" can come from something as simple as someone trying to carjack me or if our government tried to become authoritarian. We just went through a pandemic and had our government trying to keep people home. So my firearm is a "just in case" type thing. Not sure about a fascination. I've fired a gun under 50 times in my life. All at the range.

[valade16]

We have car insurance as well, it's everywhere. It's actually illegal in some countries to drive without it.

We also have medical insurance, which is the same concept for a human body. So an insurance does that, not a gun.
We also have life insurance. Pretty similar concept but for life threatening stuff or life ending matters. Again, no guns involved.

You only carry a gun when you wanna hurt someone or fear that someone is going to hurt you. It's not an insurance policy, otherwise I could sign up for a gun with my insurer.

The things other developed nations have that the United States doesn’t which are good ideas is sizable. Similarly, the things the United States has that most other developed nations don’t which are bad ideas is also sizable.

[NYKalltheway]

I literally posted the words of the actual Amendment. What are you going to tell me I’m wrong about why the US is fascinated by guns? If that’s the case, why’d you even ask the question in the first place if you knew the answer better than Americans?

You posted the words and then decorated them with something else. Are you now pretending that what you posted is in sync with the Constitution wording?
Heck, it's not even grammatically the same across States!

I mean it’s not like pro-gun advocates didn’t say exactly what I did or anything:

Yet here you are challenging me when I get the feeling that you agree that this is an absurd take.

I'm asking for the real reason, not whatever the side that's advocating for unrestricted gun ownership is claiming. Not really the same.

[valade16]

You posted the words and then decorated them with something else. Are you now pretending that what you posted is in sync with the Constitution wording?
Heck, it's not even grammatically the same across States!

Yet here you are challenging me when I get the feeling that you agree that this is an absurd take.

I'm asking for the real reason, not whatever the side that's advocating for unrestricted gun ownership is claiming. Not really the same.

I agree it’s ridiculous reasoning (if you knew anything about me in this forum you’d know I’ve consistently called for gun control). But it’s their reasoning. What do you mean the real reason? They legit distrust the government to such a degree they believe they need a gun for when it turns tyrannical (which they believe to be imminent). They believe guns genuinely make them and this country safer (despite all evidence to the contrary).

I don’t know what the “real” reason would be here.