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  1. #3496
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    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA


    Say what you want, Evan Fournier was one of the very best shooters in the NBA last season - a lethal combination of flawless technique and talent.

    I’m gonna show you why and how - 🧵

    1/10) Let’s start with stats:
    Really good efficiency in all aspects despite an F in openness.
    11:20 AM · Aug 5, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
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    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    Replying to
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    2/10) The combo of volume and efficiency is what makes him elite. Evan made the 4th most 3s in the NBA last season and had the best % of the top 9.

    He can make the difficult look easy because of his special footwork + balance. His favorite move may be the stepback to his left.
    0:05 / 1:17
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    3/10) You can see from the stats (A- in 3 pt shot creation) and the film that Fournier isn’t just a reliant shooter - he can self-CREATE 3s, and generates surprising separation with his stepback.

    He goes to it less often, but here are a few beautiful stepbacks to his right:
    ·
    10h
    4/10) Fournier doesn’t jump much on his J, and yet he’s able to get his shot off in tight spaces regardless. That’s due to his lightning-quick release, as well as tremendous balance.

    He has this unique ability, especially in the left corner, to simply arch, fade and fire.
    0:01 / 0:48
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    5/10) That gorgeous, efficient shooting form also translates to real range, so that Evan is able to space the floor from several feet behind the arc.

    You see it here in transition, halfcourt off the catch and off the bounce, speaking again to that shooting versatility.
    0:01 / 1:12
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    6/10) We’ve spoken to Fournier’s ability to create shots and spacing - but how did NYK get him shots? They had a few pet sets to create 3s for their sharpshooter.

    1st, via this PF backscreen. NYK LOVED to run this early in the 1Q and 3Q, sometimes adding a screen by the 5 man.
    0:01 / 1:24
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    7/10) Similar in the sense that a Fournier backscreen would precede a pop to 3, NYK ran a ton of Spain Pick+Roll with Evan as the baskscreener on the opposing center.

    Note the wrinkle in the last clip here, where Evan screens Randle’s man on the wing instead. INTERESTING!!
    0:01 / 1:20
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    8/10) NYK seemed to run much of their stuff to get Fournier looks at the top of the key - the two sets above plus this simple 5-man downscreen.

    You wonder if they could explore some sets to get him more looks in the corners where he has been deadly throughout his career.
    0:02 / 0:33
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    9/10) My absolute favorite is what I like to call Peek-a-Boo - an old D’Antoni set where 3 players line up opposite an empty side PNR. Juuuust chillin.

    Then, the wing and the big subtly step forward and set screens for the shooter - who pops quickly - SURPRISE! Bang.
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    10/10) Other than those set plays, NYK played a TON of Randle/Fournier DHO action on the left side of the floor.

    There wasn’t much to like about Randle’s year, but the chemistry he developed with Evan in this context was one of them. I break down all the developed nuances here:

  2. #3497
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    Around the NBA 2021-22 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    he said capable and if you lose last year then they are capable, depends on how you look at it?

    Even DM, 25.6 on 20.5 shots is not elite, and shooting below average from three in these here times how great is that?

    So I like his capable #2's, it's generous but I like it lol
    He was significantly more efficient then those two. Plus he is an extremely explosive guard that collapses defenses a lot more. You “can” play through anyone. It’s just not always good offense. If Randle goes back to the kind of shot making he showed 2 years ago, sure. Barrett, not yet. The franchise needs to get away from the stand around and watch when it’s not your turn on offense anyway.


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    Last edited by ewing; 08-05-2022 at 10:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  3. #3498
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post




    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA


    Say what you want, Evan Fournier was one of the very best shooters in the NBA last season - a lethal combination of flawless technique and talent.

    I’m gonna show you why and how - 🧵

    1/10) Let’s start with stats:
    Really good efficiency in all aspects despite an F in openness.
    11:20 AM · Aug 5, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
    43
    Retweets
    29
    Quote Tweets
    323
    Likes
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    Replying to
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    2/10) The combo of volume and efficiency is what makes him elite. Evan made the 4th most 3s in the NBA last season and had the best % of the top 9.

    He can make the difficult look easy because of his special footwork + balance. His favorite move may be the stepback to his left.
    0:05 / 1:17
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    3/10) You can see from the stats (A- in 3 pt shot creation) and the film that Fournier isn’t just a reliant shooter - he can self-CREATE 3s, and generates surprising separation with his stepback.

    He goes to it less often, but here are a few beautiful stepbacks to his right:
    ·
    10h
    4/10) Fournier doesn’t jump much on his J, and yet he’s able to get his shot off in tight spaces regardless. That’s due to his lightning-quick release, as well as tremendous balance.

    He has this unique ability, especially in the left corner, to simply arch, fade and fire.
    0:01 / 0:48
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    5/10) That gorgeous, efficient shooting form also translates to real range, so that Evan is able to space the floor from several feet behind the arc.

    You see it here in transition, halfcourt off the catch and off the bounce, speaking again to that shooting versatility.
    0:01 / 1:12
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    6/10) We’ve spoken to Fournier’s ability to create shots and spacing - but how did NYK get him shots? They had a few pet sets to create 3s for their sharpshooter.

    1st, via this PF backscreen. NYK LOVED to run this early in the 1Q and 3Q, sometimes adding a screen by the 5 man.
    0:01 / 1:24
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    7/10) Similar in the sense that a Fournier backscreen would precede a pop to 3, NYK ran a ton of Spain Pick+Roll with Evan as the baskscreener on the opposing center.

    Note the wrinkle in the last clip here, where Evan screens Randle’s man on the wing instead. INTERESTING!!
    0:01 / 1:20
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    8/10) NYK seemed to run much of their stuff to get Fournier looks at the top of the key - the two sets above plus this simple 5-man downscreen.

    You wonder if they could explore some sets to get him more looks in the corners where he has been deadly throughout his career.
    0:02 / 0:33
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    9/10) My absolute favorite is what I like to call Peek-a-Boo - an old D’Antoni set where 3 players line up opposite an empty side PNR. Juuuust chillin.

    Then, the wing and the big subtly step forward and set screens for the shooter - who pops quickly - SURPRISE! Bang.
    Rit Holtzman
    @BenRitholtzNBA
    ·
    10h
    10/10) Other than those set plays, NYK played a TON of Randle/Fournier DHO action on the left side of the floor.

    There wasn’t much to like about Randle’s year, but the chemistry he developed with Evan in this context was one of them. I break down all the developed nuances here:
    Perfect. Trade them both to the Lakers. Post there stats on the floor defensively

  4. #3499
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    And he was doing that with no spacing. Imagine when JB makes the defense collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    Perfect. Trade them both to the Lakers. Post there stats on the floor defensively
    You can just look up our team defense post all star break. He played a lot of minutes. Yes, he isn’t a good defender but he is a smart one when it comes to rotation and understanding his assignment. So he can get scored on some but he knows where to funnel the ball and where to rotate. That’s why we can have a very good defensive rating even when he plays big minutes.

  5. #3500
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    Quote Originally Posted by aNYer View Post
    And he was doing that with no spacing. Imagine when JB makes the defense collapse.



    You can just look up our team defense post all star break. He played a lot of minutes. Yes, he isn’t a good defender but he is a smart one when it comes to rotation and understanding his assignment. So he can get scored on some but he knows where to funnel the ball and where to rotate. That’s why we can have a very good defensive rating even when he plays big minutes.
    look I like Jalen a lot, but Fourn playing next Jalen vs playing next to Burks is going to be more a negative on defense.

    One thing we all know the other team looked to get in matchups with Fourn no secret.

    Honestly Fourn on a contender would be a really good 6th man getting the same min he got last year here.

    If I'm the Lakers that is the guy wrapped in the middle of AD and Lebron he'd fit idealy, think Korver.

  6. #3501
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    Quote Originally Posted by aNYer View Post
    And he was doing that with no spacing. Imagine when JB makes the defense collapse.



    You can just look up our team defense post all star break. He played a lot of minutes. Yes, he isn’t a good defender but he is a smart one when it comes to rotation and understanding his assignment. So he can get scored on some but he knows where to funnel the ball and where to rotate. That’s why we can have a very good defensive rating even when he plays big minutes.
    Evan isn’t good defender but I think he gets exposed the most when the game becomes a grind. He doesn’t play with force and is frankly a little soft. After the Kemba benching they played at a snails pace for awhile. I think this was when Evan was exposed most.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  7. #3502
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He was significantly more efficient then those two. Plus he is an extremely explosive guard that collapses defenses a lot more. You “can” play through anyone. It’s just not always good offense. If Randle goes back to the kind of shot making he showed 2 years ago, sure. Barrett, not yet. The franchise needs to get away from the stand around and watch when it’s not your turn on offense anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The offense is what this dung for brains coach pits on the floor, featuring the fricking weave.

    You think RJ won't be more efficient playing with a PG in an offense that features him? Why?

    Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

  8. #3503
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    Quote Originally Posted by callmeDro View Post
    The offense is what this dung for brains coach pits on the floor, featuring the fricking weave.

    You think RJ won't be more efficient playing with a PG in an offense that features him? Why?

    Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
    Except, the question is “should an offense feature him”?

    He’s not good in mid range, and he’s not a great/explosive finisher. Likewise, there’s a lot of players that could be putting up numbers in a good system for them. But not every player gets (or deserves) that chance. Guys that really are valuable drive the system, not play off it..

    I mean, even though it’s likely a fluke, and we all want him gone, Randle gave us a look at what that looked like 2 years ago. Can RJ be that guy?
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 08-06-2022 at 11:45 AM.

  9. #3504
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    Quote Originally Posted by callmeDro View Post
    The offense is what this dung for brains coach pits on the floor, featuring the fricking weave.

    You think RJ won't be more efficient playing with a PG in an offense that features him? Why?

    Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
    It’s also who is on the floor and the offense has been a lot faster, less predictable, and more efficient w/o Barrett or Randle on the floor for 2 years. I think he can be more efficient and I think Brunson can help get him good shots. I also hear a segment of the fan base say he needs on ball reps all the time. When he doesn’t play well they say it’s bc we have to run things through him. When we do and his shooting splits are horrendous its just “efficiency”. I think for RJ to be efficient he needs to be an off ball scorer that gets to run some action. This team should actually drop the “first, second, third option mentality” entirely unless they land Mitchell. Let the ball find energy

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    Last edited by ewing; 08-06-2022 at 12:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #3505
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Except, the question is “should an offense feature him”?

    He’s not good in mid range, and he’s not a great/explosive finisher. Likewise, there’s a lot of players that could be putting up numbers in a good system for them. But not every player gets (or deserves) that chance. Guys that really are valuable drive the system, not play off it..

    I mean, even though it’s likely a fluke, and we all want him gone, Randle gave us a look at what that looked like 2 years ago. Can RJ be that guy?
    As constructed this team shouldn’t “play through” anyone most of the the time. Thibs lives in the 90s though, the Knicks have only tried sharing the ball for a short time under Dantoni, and it’s not seen as an option.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  11. #3506
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    It’s also who is on the floor and the offense has been a lot faster, less predictable, and more efficient w/o Barrett or Randle on the floor for 2 years. I think he can be more efficient and I think Brunson can help get him good shots. I also hear a segment of the fan base say he needs on ball reps all the time. When he doesn’t play well they say it’s bc we have to run things through him. When we do and his shooting splits are horrendous its just “efficiency”. I think for RJ to be efficient he needs to be an off ball scorer that gets to run some action.


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    Definitely. From what hes shown so far, his skill set is definitely more “off ball”. If he can hit the shots he’s set up for, play downhill to the basket and take care of those opportunities, great. If he mixes in some effective creation on his own, that’s his path to being all-star caliber

  12. #3507
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    It’s also who is on the floor and the offense has been a lot faster, less predictable, and more efficient w/o Barrett or Randle on the floor for 2 years. I think he can be more efficient and I think Brunson can help get him good shots. I also hear a segment of the fan base say he needs on ball reps all the time. When he doesn’t play well they say it’s bc we have to run things through him. When we do and his shooting splits are horrendous its just “efficiency”. I think for RJ to be efficient he needs to be an off ball scorer that gets to run some action. This team should actually drop the “first, second, third option mentality” entirely unless they land Mitchell. Let the ball find energy

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That I have no issue with. I think RJ should play both on and off the ball. He is capable of both. If the game plan skews too much in one direction, it will stagnate things. He needs some touches where he can take it to the hole but he also needs to play off the ball some. Basically balance and flow will make him more efficient. Our incredibly arrogant ex-COY always prioritized the opposite.

    Yes our bench offense was way better than starters last year. But can't hold that against RJ. Not even Michael Jordan could make an offense featuring a mutinous Randle and orchestrated by Burks look fluid. Throw in a lumbering big like Mitchell in the middle. It's just not possible. Fournier was efficient but he never looked like he could take the game over. Maybe that's what you give up when you want efficiency? High usage players are not efficient. We just don't need Randle level pathetic.



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  13. #3508
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    Quote Originally Posted by callmeDro View Post
    That I have no issue with. I think RJ should play both on and off the ball. He is capable of both. If the game plan skews too much in one direction, it will stagnate things. He needs some touches where he can take it to the hole but he also needs to play off the ball some. Basically balance and flow will make him more efficient. Our incredibly arrogant ex-COY always prioritized the opposite.

    Yes our bench offense was way better than starters last year. But can't hold that against RJ. Not even Michael Jordan could make an offense featuring a mutinous Randle and orchestrated by Burks look fluid. Throw in a lumbering big like Mitchell in the middle. It's just not possible. Fournier was efficient but he never looked like he could take the game over. Maybe that's what you give up when you want efficiency? High usage players are not efficient. We just don't need Randle level pathetic.



    Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
    Thibs definitely has some blame but it’s been both years. Even with Barrett and Randle shooting well the team would have been 500 at best 2 years ago if the bench didn’t crush.

    Usage can definitely effect individual efficiency. I think any time you are as predictable has our first unit has been with Randle and/or Barrett the last couple years they will be going against a set defense a lot. That’s hard to do. On the other hand you should be able to limit turnovers, cross matches, etc. it’s a ball control strategy and can work but I don’t think it’s a play style that optimal for this roaster. Thibs definitely has some blame. I also think Barrett looks to have the ball go through him too much and tunnels on shot/drive at times

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    Last edited by ewing; 08-06-2022 at 04:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #3509
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Thibs definitely has some blame but it’s been both years. Even with Barrett and Randle shooting well the team would have been 500 at best 2 years ago if the bench didn’t crush.

    Usage can definitely effect individual efficiency. I think any time you are as predictable has our first unit has been with Randle and/or Barrett the last couple years they will be going against a set defense a lot. That’s hard to do. On the other hand you should be able to limit turnovers, cross matches, etc. it’s a ball control strategy and can work but I don’t think it’s a play style that optimal for this roaster. Thibs definitely has some blame. I also think Barrett looks to have the ball go through him too much and tunnels on shot/drive at times

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    Yeah. He has his heads down moments when he loses awareness of his teammates. I think he will learn to pass more. IQ did, it's a skill you can acquire. RJ doesn't need to have court vision like a PG but enough awareness to punish double teams.

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  15. #3510
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