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  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Respect should be given regardless.
    They canít cut in the NBA at the head coaching level. Thatís not because of Lebron. When a coach isnít up to the level of his contemporaries and the team suffers, they deserve the butting of heads.

    They underachieved regardless.
    Imagine what they would have been without Lebron. Yet *he* was the one being picked on for not being better.

    No one said LeBron ruined him. Just that he is called washed up undesevedly so.
    He wasnít leading or able to be a major cog in a championship run anymore. And that wasnít Lebronís fault.

    Agreed.

    What is your reasoning then?
    Peopleís hate for the guy or hate for the praise of the guy really brings out dumb reasonsÖÖlike what I mentioned.
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 11-26-2021 at 08:23 PM.

  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I really think thatís on the league as well as the players union to address. The issue is the league itself favours super stars so much that they will bend the rules for them. Why wasnít Davis addressed when he sat out? Why isnít Simmons being held accountable when heís sitting out now? Is he forfeiting his salary still? I donít even know I stopped caring about Ben a while ago lol.

    But on a side note, Lebron has honoured all his contracts hasnít he? I donít recall him every pushing his way out while under contract.
    You were indeed talking about how weak LeBron's teammates were and how LeBron overachieved in spite of a poor cast but did not acknowledge LeBron/Paul forced BronBall on the team. BronBall weakens teammates and undermines the team's winning opportunity systematically through ball domination and personnel moves to support the flawed system.

  3. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    You were indeed talking about how weak LeBron's teammates were and how LeBron overachieved in spite of a poor cast but did not acknowledge LeBron/Paul forced BronBall on the team. BronBall weakens teammates and undermines the team's winning opportunity systematically through ball domination and personnel moves to support the flawed system.
    Itís worked a 4 times already and thatís a fact. I wonder how much of his meddling is due to him having a terrible FO for the first 7 years of his career. Heís not just going to trust GMs or coaches because he wasted 1/3 of his career doing that and now he has options.

    I mean, Kobe threatened to leave and Jordan wanted Phil to be GM and get Jerry Krause fired but you know what happened when he didnít get his way? He retired and Jackson left. And he publicly talked about it.

    I have no idea why you keep going on about this if you think Lebron is a top 3 guy and the stuff youíre complaining about still netted 4 titles (2 to the team you root hard for). Calling him LeGM or LeCrab or talking about his LeLegacy is just icing on the This is Getting Lame cake. And that, too, is a fact.

  4. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Itís worked a 4 times already and thatís a fact. I wonder how much of his meddling is due to him having a terrible FO for the first 7 years of his career. Heís not just going to trust GMs or coaches because he wasted 1/3 of his career doing that and now he has options.

    I mean, Kobe threatened to leave and Jordan wanted Phil to be GM and get Jerry Krause fired but you know what happened when he didnít get his way? He retired and Jackson left. And he publicly talked about it.

    I have no idea why you keep going on about this if you think Lebron is a top 3 guy and the stuff youíre complaining about still netted 4 titles (2 to the team you root hard for). Calling him LeGM or LeCrab or talking about his LeLegacy is just icing on the This is Getting Lame cake. And that, too, is a fact.
    This is just an exercise for those who want to rewrite history and those who are trying to avoid facts to promote LeBron as GOAT. All others who have a reasonable understanding that LeBron has had plenty of help, and he's not the best of all time, need not reply.

  5. #635
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    The last couple of years makes me more certain than ever that the Championship he won with the Lakers was a fluke of the bubble.
    All the extra months of rest, followed by the fact that they didn't have to do any travel greatly benefited the oldest, and most injury-prone team in the league.

    BTW I'm a Lakers fan.

  6. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Nice post. Nailed it. I love when Brontards try to say that Wade was 'washed up' at the end of the Miami run lol.
    Yea, it's a great post of cherry picking stats. Interesting that he used the 2nd last year of his run with LeBron to showcase how bad wade was with LeBron instead of the 3 other years where he was better. Really unbiased stuff right there.

  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    You were indeed talking about how weak LeBron's teammates were and how LeBron overachieved in spite of a poor cast but did not acknowledge LeBron/Paul forced BronBall on the team. BronBall weakens teammates and undermines the team's winning opportunity systematically through ball domination and personnel moves to support the flawed system.
    His cast on his first stint with the Cavs was really not that great.

    This Bronball stuff youíre talking about just seems like a personal thing. You can say that about almost any ball dominant player. Only you donít like the fact that Lebron has the pull to actually bring guys in that suite his style.

    But yeah if you just donít like the dude you can say that too lol

  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Yea, it's a great post of cherry picking stats. Interesting that he used the 2nd last year of his run with LeBron to showcase how bad wade was with LeBron instead of the 3 other years where he was better. Really unbiased stuff right there.
    I thought so as well.

  9. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Yea, it's a great post of cherry picking stats. Interesting that he used the 2nd last year of his run with LeBron to showcase how bad wade was with LeBron instead of the 3 other years where he was better. Really unbiased stuff right there.
    Do you want me to compare 2014 to 2016 instead? It says the same thing for anyone who has common sense and eyes.

    2016 vs 14: 4.9 vs 0.9 BPM, 0.8vs 0.5 VORP, 1.5 vs 1.2 WS, 22.3 vs 18.5 PER.

    How does it feel to clown yourself?

  10. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    His cast on his first stint with the Cavs was really not that great.

    This Bronball stuff youíre talking about just seems like a personal thing. You can say that about almost any ball dominant player. Only you donít like the fact that Lebron has the pull to actually bring guys in that suite his style.

    But yeah if you just donít like the dude you can say that too lol
    No, I think it's more personal that you're trying to argue the sky is brown. We're discussing facts not opinion. Ball domination doesn't win, but it's his nature to force it just to inflate self and shift the blame later when things fail.

  11. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    No, I think it's more personal that you're trying to argue the sky is brown. We're discussing facts not opinion. Ball domination doesn't win, but it's his nature to force it just to inflate self and shift the blame later when things fail.
    Funny because he won 4 titles , while Jordan only won 2 more

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  12. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I thought so as well.
    Let me ask, who do you expect to play best to worst between a 31 yr old, 32 yr old or a 34 yr old version of the same player?

    All conventional wisdom should point to one thing, but the stats say something else.

  13. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Funny because he won 4 titles , while Jordan only won 2 more

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    He has, and?

    The talent around him and stacking the deck could have won more with the right mindset.

  14. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    No, I think it's more personal that you're trying to argue the sky is brown. We're discussing facts not opinion. Ball domination doesn't win, but it's his nature to force it just to inflate self and shift the blame later when things fail.
    I tried to find common ground with you bro. Iím not sure why the combative angle. But what you deem as a fact is coming off as opinionated. Being ball dominant doesnít mean selfish. Is Chris Paul selfish? Was Magic Johnson selfish?

    Lebron will also likely go down as the all time assist leader. I find it amazing that you think heís selfish but someone like Jordan wasnít?

  15. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Let me ask, who do you expect to play best to worst between a 31 yr old, 32 yr old or a 34 yr old version of the same player?

    All conventional wisdom should point to one thing, but the stats say something else.
    Depends on the player. I thought Jason Kidd was a much more complete player later in his career. As the same as Kyle Lowry. So it depends on when the player in question peaks.

    Some players peak early line Unseld, Vince Carter.

    I name drop so that you can have examples of guys who peaked early vs guys who got better with time.

    So again it really depends on the player.

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