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  1. #1
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    LeBron James' legacy

    As soon as LeBron passes Kareem on the all time NBA scoring list...that would just cement LeBron as the GOAT but then again LeBron has nothing left to really prove except passing Kareem. Yeah he has 4 rings with 3 different teams (Cavs 1, Heat 2 and Lakers 1) but in order for him to at least be considered the universal GOAT he would have to at least tie Jordan by winning 6 rings. Or even surpassing Jordan to get 7 rings but to do that he would have to literally 4 peat. But LeBron is in year 19 so he would have to play at least 4 more years and by then he would be 40 or 41 years old.

    Could LeBron play until then? Sure because of the way he takes care of his body but Father Time catches up with everyone. It is bound to catch up to Bron.

  2. #2
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    Passing Kareem on all time scoring does NOT cement him as the GOAT.

    He has to tie Jordan's 6 rings.

  3. #3
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    LeBron was not two steps ahead of the league's best the entire length of his prime statistically, nor did LeBron ever 3 peat once let alone twice like Jordan did.

    Besides those knocks, LeBron team hopped too much in what amounted to ring chasing. Forcing GMs into a bind through himself and his agent for the team to make Hail Mary plays at trying to win a title.... All those things are detractors keeping him from ever being considered the GOAT.

    I think the OP mispoke by saying surpassing Kareem would cement him as 2nd GOAT. Yes, that I can agree with. I would say LeBron is 2nd, but I can definitely see competent arguments that support Kareem as better. Surpassing him on the scoring list would make it a near cemented case. The lack of Finals MVP awards are the only thing keeping LeBron afloat over Kareem right now.

  4. #4
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    He's 1B.

  5. #5
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    Plus LeBron has 10 Finals appearances all be it he is 4-6 in Finals but if he were to win 2 more titles to tie Jordan that would be 6 rings but he would be 6-6 in 12 Finals appearances

  6. #6
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    LeBron passing Kareem in points would not cement him as the GOAT.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    He's 1B.
    He’s 2 at best


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #8
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    Why must this keep coming up? For some he was number 1 10 years ago, for some he'll never be. One more stat isn't going to make the difference for most.

  9. #9
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    You'll never be able to convince me that Bron is the goat over Jordan because I actually watched them both play in their primes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headache 21 View Post
    You'll never be able to convince me that Bron is the goat over Jordan because I actually watched them both play in their primes.
    Let me go a step further and say that I think NBA players today are more individually skilled than they were when Jordan played, and more athletically gifted.

    Obviously that's the case - technology and training methods improve with time. So yes, that's obviously true.

    Players in Jordan's era were more physical. It was a game dominated by the traditional back to the basket center. Players in the 70s and early 80s also, for the most part, didn't make enough money where they could just spend the off-season training like they do now. That change happened in the 80s.

    I often hear, usually from people who aren't even old enough to remember Jordan as anything other than a shoe salesman, that Jordan played against "accountants" and that's why he dominated.

    Um, no.

    Now is it true that many of those big burly looking dudes from the 80s and 90s couldn't play in today's game? Yes and no. They couldn't play the way they played then, and some of them just physically wouldn't be able to survive in today's game - but that's because the league changed the rules.

    By the early 2000s the game was TOO physical. Scores were in the 70s because players just beat the snot out of each other. It culminated in the brawl in Detroit.

    The league knew they needed to legislate some physicality out of the game and open things up, make it a more entertaining product to help keep fans interested, as it was a time when ratings were beginning to drop.

    So that's what they did. They eliminated the illegal defense rule and allowed teams to play zone, effectively legislating the dominant post player out of the game. They moved the three point line closer and they pretty much made it impossible to touch anyone. Flagrant fouls became more common in an attempt to cut the kind of fighting that used to be fairly common completely out of the game.

    You know the famous video of Kurt Rambis being clotheslined by Kevin McHale? If that occurred today McHale would be suspended for a month. When it happened? It wasn't even a flagrant. It was ruled a common foul.

    And hey - the rule changes worked. Scores went up, and so did ratings.

    But it was an intentional business move. The little guards that dominate the game today would be just as obsolete in the 80s/90s game as the hulking bigs are today.

    So what does all this have to do with the GOAT conversation between Jordan and LeBron? Everything, really.

    Jordan's offensive numbers are better than LeBron's and Jordan played in an era where offense was harder. Jordan was also a better defensive player. Jordan was also a better winner.

    LeBron is a better passer. And he has the longevity. But Jordan purposefully stepped away for two years in his prime, and then retired again off an MVP season. He could have had the longevity numbers (scoring leader, etc.) if he wanted to. He didn't. He easily could have won more rings than he did if he a) didn't retire the first time, b) Krause didn't want to blow it up after the second 3-peat.

    The last 6 full seasons Jordan played (not counting the Wizards years when he was in his 40s) featured 6 Finals appearances, 6 Finals wins, 6 Finals MVPs, 6 scoring titles, 6 first team all NBA appearances, 6 first team all defensive, and 4 league MVP awards.

    And he left to play baseball in the middle of all of those awards because he was bored.

    And this was all done in an era when it was harder to score. Where they'd put you on your *** if you went in the lane.

    Was he a great three point shooter? No. Average. But it wasn't a priority in the game back then (with the defensive rules being what they are + the line being further back than it is today).

    But then again, LeBron isn't a great three point shooter, either.

    People like to say "oh put LeBron in that era" as if it's an apples to apples kind of deal. If LeBron played in that era he wouldn't have access to the medical and training advancements that he has today to keep his body in top form. He's also be playing in an era where hand checks were legal and you were planted on your *** if you went on the lane too often. Today is you breath on LeBron it's a foul.

    Would he have adjusted? Probably. He's an all time great athlete, so yea. But it would be a huge adjustment. The space on the court that exists today just simply wasn't there due to the rule changes.

    Now take Jordan - who was already maniacal about his body - and give him greater access to medical and technological advances, and let him play in an era where there's more space on the floor, no bigs clogging the lane, and if they breath on you it's a foul?

    Dude would put up Wilt numbers.

    So yea, I mean, I respect LeBron. But saying he's #2 behind Jordan is not an insult. It's high praise, actually, because Jordan was just that damn good.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Why must this keep coming up? For some he was number 1 10 years ago, for some he'll never be. One more stat isn't going to make the difference for most.
    I don’t know if OP was quoting him, but the comments are from Shaq. He said Bron will be GOAT if he passes Kareem in points.

  12. #12
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    Also, if LeBron had Jordan era training and Jordan era rules would he have been as healthy as long?

    It just further illustrates the reality is that It's not really possible to equate players across eras.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Also, if LeBron had Jordan era training and Jordan era rules would he have been as healthy as long?

    It just further illustrates the reality is that It's not really possible to equate players across eras.
    Lebron would be a monster defender in that era as well.

  14. #14
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    Lebron is the goat... Another title would just further cement it. The finals teams he beats smacks the teams jordan faced and outside of wade/bosh he never had a roster the likes of which jordan had throughout his entire career.

  15. #15
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    I'm fine with MJ/LeBron/Kareem/Russell all interchangeable as the GOAT

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