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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    The young guns weren’t that good. It was Demar, Weems, and Johnson right? Obviously Siakam/OG/GTJ are far better as a trio.

    I think GTJ will be the one who gets traded. He has two years remaining on his contract and the final year is a player option he will likely opt out of. I would offer him straight up for Turner.
    Well, there was the young guns and then there was the 2.0 with Delon, Fred, Jakob, Siakam, Powell etc. There was so much debate, and most of them didn't even end up being on the actual championship roster. Regardless I'm not really comparing cores, just speaking very generally since I don't really see this group sticking together.
    Last edited by ecart; 12-07-2021 at 02:08 PM.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    I simply didn't include them as I was talking specifically about long athletic defenders in that original post. It was no slight to FVV or GTJ. Fred isn't going anywhere and is obviously going to start. Then you have OG, Pascal and Barnes who can all defend 2's, 3's and 4's....and create shots for themselves as well as others with the ball in their hands. So they can def all play together.

    The only question I have isn't whether or not GTJ deserves to start. The question is does a floor spacing SG like him make the best 5 man unit along with those 4, or does someone who can defend 7 footers and dominate around the rim fit better?

    I think GTJ's game is made for being a great 6th man type. He's instant offense off the bench and on D he has shown he can dig in and create consistent turnovers for you too. If they can ever all get in the lineup I think FVV, OG, Siakam and Barnes can provide enough offense from the starters. What this team still needs though is someone who they can count on off the bench to give them consistent bench scoring....and I trust GTJ a lot more than I trust Banton, Svi, Yuta or Boucher.
    You can't trust anyone on the bench because we don't have playmakers we can stagger to help guide the bench. It has been an ongoing issue for years now, that's why literally every single player looks better starting. The only time it wasn't a problem was when they could stagger Lowry, Fred (and Delon). Swapping Trent with Svi or Birch is still the same result, which we literally saw from the start.
    Last edited by ecart; 12-07-2021 at 02:10 PM.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Well, there was the young guns and then there was the 2.0 with Fred, Jakob, Siakam, Powell etc. There was so much debate, and most of them didn't even end up being on the actual championship roster. Regardless I'm not really comparing cores, just speaking very generally since I don't really see this group sticking together.
    Depends how long they wanna roll with this experiment. I personally never thought having an unbalanced roster like this would work and always thought there will be an odd man out.

    The question really is can Barnes develop in to a better player than OG/Siakam. If the answer is yes one of those guys becomes expendable. If the answer is no, then something has to give. Barnes certainly shouldn’t be coming off the bench in the future, but neither should OG or Siakam. Can Barnes/OG/Siakam work all in the starting unit? That’s what the FO needs to figure out. It doesn’t help that they’ve hardly played together though.

    I think MU is using this season as an assessment year. Right now the FO probably believes the FVV/OG/Siakam/Barnes core can work. But I really think in order for them to have any success that their supporting cast needs to be revamped and bolstered. Too many prospects, not enough talent, and the pieces don’t really fit together imo.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 12-07-2021 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    You can't trust anyone on the bench because we don't have playmakers we can stagger to help guide the bench. It has been an ongoing issue for years now, that's why literally every single player looks better starting. The only time it wasn't a problem was when they could stagger Lowry, Fred (and Delon). Swapping Trent with Svi or Birch is still the same result, which we literally saw from the start.
    💯

  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Depends how long they wanna roll with this experiment. I personally never thought having an unbalanced roster like this would work and always thought there will be an odd man out.

    The question really is can Barnes develop in to a better player than OG/Siakam. If the answer is yes one of those guys becomes expendable. If the answer is no, then something has to give. Barnes certainly shouldn’t be coming off the bench in the future, but neither should OG or Siakam. Can Barnes/OG/Siakam work all in the starting unit? That’s what the FO needs to figure out.

    I think MU is using this season as an assessment year. Right now the FO probably believes the FVV/OG/Siakam/Barnes core can work. But I really think in order for them to have any success that their supporting cast needs to be revamped and bolstered. Too many prospects, not enough talent, and the pieces don’t really fit together imo.
    [Charania] Sources: The Indiana Pacers are moving toward rebuild, receptive to trade talks centered on Caris LeVert and either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner.

    👀

    Unless you can get 5 Lebrons, the whole we're going to have 5 6'9 guys was always going to be a gimmicky response to dodge a bait question by the media. Cause if they had the opportunity to get guys like CP3, Harden, Steph etc that plan/identity would be dropped so quick. Unless Barnes develops into a legit playmaker in the short term, that trio isn't really going to work out either. The Celtics kinda have the same problem too but to a lesser degree.
    Last edited by ecart; 12-07-2021 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    [Charania] Sources: The Indiana Pacers are moving toward rebuild, receptive to trade talks centered on Caris LeVert and either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner.

    👀

    Unless you can get 5 Lebrons, the whole we're going to have 5 6'9 guys was always going to be a gimmicky response to dodge a bait question by the media. Cause if they had the opportunity to get guys like CP3, Harden, Steph etc that plan/identity would be dropped so quick. Unless Barnes develops into a legit playmaker in the short term, that trio isn't really going to work out either. The Celtics kinda have the same problem too but to a lesser degree.
    If I'm the Raptors, I go after Sabonis rather than Turner if I'm being honest

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    If I'm the Raptors, I go after Sabonis rather than Turner if I'm being honest
    I mean we're a dog **** team. I'm not going to say no and be picky about any of them if the price is right.

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    The young guns weren’t that good. It was Demar, Weems, and Johnson right? Obviously Siakam/OG/GTJ are far better as a trio.

    I think GTJ will be the one who gets traded. He has two years remaining on his contract and the final year is a player option he will likely opt out of. I would offer him straight up for Turner.
    Thanks for saying that for me.

    A good example though (and I know 2k ratings is a terrible way to assess, it’s just an easy way to communicate though). Of the old young guns, only demar ever cracked 80 overall. Seems was like 74, Johnson 76, and demar at one point during his best season with us got up to 91 for a few months, but usually settles into that 86 range.
    This current starting 5 is all between 81(gtjr) and 84(FVV). That’s the “potential all star” range.

    @ecart which of our starting 5 do you think could never become an all star in the right scenario? Not all nba like siakam achieved, but all star? I think they all have that ceiling.

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Well, there was the young guns and then there was the 2.0 with Delon, Fred, Jakob, Siakam, Powell etc. There was so much debate, and most of them didn't even end up being on the actual championship roster. Regardless I'm not really comparing cores, just speaking very generally since I don't really see this group sticking together.
    A lot of good talent on that bench mob.

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I mean we're a dog **** team. I'm not going to say no and be picky about any of them if the price is right.
    Wouldn’t sabonis just compound the roster construction issues? Talent is talent but you have to give talent to get talent and I don’t see us trading a forward for him.

  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Wouldn’t sabonis just compound the roster construction issues? Talent is talent but you have to give talent to get talent and I don’t see us trading a forward for him.
    I mean like I said if the price is right idc. Sabonis is a significantly better playmaker and rebounder so he provides a different skillset. He's a forward that we can add that won't cause too many problems offensively. Defense is different issue.

  12. #852
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    But Sabonis would basically solve your problems at the 5 as a big

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    But Sabonis would basically solve your problems at the 5 as a big
    no. turner solves more problems. sabonis creates more opportunities.

  14. #854
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    Would you do GTjr straight up for turner?

    I don’t know what to feel about it. It doesn’t feel like time to make a win now addition.
    But he fits in nicely with siakam and FVV’s timeline. He’d fit similar to how Ibaka fit so nicely.

    FVV/OG/Barnes/Siakam/Turner

    Is that team really so much better that youd be willing to give up on the ceiling of a 22 year old 18+ppg lights out shooter who is near the top of the league in steals and deflections? That lineup above is still and experiment.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Would you do GTjr straight up for turner?

    I don’t know what to feel about it. It doesn’t feel like time to make a win now addition.
    But he fits in nicely with siakam and FVV’s timeline. He’d fit similar to how Ibaka fit so nicely.

    FVV/OG/Barnes/Siakam/Turner

    Is that team really so much better that youd be willing to give up on the ceiling of a 22 year old 18+ppg lights out shooter who is near the top of the league in steals and deflections? That lineup above is still and experiment.
    yeah gtj isn't that good lol. not every player has potential just cause they're young. gtj is pretty much maxed out imo. lights out shooter though? ehhhhhh

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