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  1. #1156
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    Quick question for everyone passing on the Free Agents in the hopes that Perraza or Volpe are the next Yankee SS.

    What happens when they turn out like Montero, Refsnyder, Bird, or Wade?

    Because that is significantly more likely than even a Sanchez level success.

    What do you do then? How long do you push the teams window for competition down the road?

    Are people actually good with betting the next decade on untested prospects?
    I am with Peraza and Volpe.

    I understand your point, that said the Yanks have completely overhauled there scouting, development and MILB coaches. Those specs don't have significant areas of weakness or lack talent in certain areas of their games like the former prospects U mentioned.

    This isn;t Yankee prospect hype like we have seen in the past. Volpe was voted the MILB hitter of the yr a couple weeks ago over guys like Bobby Witt JR, Rushman, and Green. Thats not a little award its a big deal and he's at most 2 seasons away.

    Peraza is the one that much closer, he finished the yr in AAA and hit .297 with 18 HR and 38 SB across 3 levels this yr. He is as good as it gets defensively, incredibly soft hands, has incredible range and a plus plus arm.

    If u want the next Tatis, Vlad Jr, J Ram, Marte, Correa, Seager, Franco, ect they have to be developed. Just because a couple specs have flamed out, u can;t quite trying to find and develop elite young talent

  2. #1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I keep saying all in, one way or another. I believe that is the quickest way to figure it out.
    All in and buy your team and blow up the farm? Probably win a WS, maybe 2 then suck for a while
    Or play it close. Make some smart moves and wait on the specs youíve held. If that blows up in your face? You can still pay for players.
    The idea that this is the best group of FAs ever is no different than claiming itís the best group of specs. There will be others if the specs stink, you still have more of them. Trade away and pay your way
    Personally I think that is more sustainable than buying players and trading for high priced ones
    But specs take years and years to determine what they will be . And they arenít as guaranteed like free agents or trade targets . How can you say that waiting on more prospects is more sustainable after what we have seen over the last 5 to 10 years ? How is it sustainable when you are gambling years and years on the unknown ?

  3. #1158
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    Quick question for everyone passing on the Free Agents in the hopes that Perraza or Volpe are the next Yankee SS.

    What happens when they turn out like Montero, Refsnyder, Bird, or Wade?

    Because that is significantly more likely than even a Sanchez level success.

    What do you do then? How long do you push the teams window for competition down the road?

    Are people actually good with betting the next decade on untested prospects?

    Are you seriously comparing Tyler Wade, Bird, Refsnyder, Montero to Peraza and Volpe? I won't deny that Seager is very intriguing, even with his questionable defense, but what is this team in most desperate need for? A torp for a lot less money and years or another hitter for the next 10 years? Even if Seager is the only FA they sign this winter I have no idea where they're going to find 35 million with their current payroll. That's the going rate. As it stands just their arbitration raises alone are going to shoot past their 210 million budget.

  4. #1159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    My preference is the go all in, one direction or another.

    I am fine with the results of waiting on specs. My feeling is, there is always talent emerging from all teams.
    If Peraza and Volpe crap the bed? So be it. I would rather take that chance. There will be another player to sign
    If they become decent starters? Great. They can be pieces of a team or trade
    If they are as advertised? Hallelujah

    I think that as much as prospect being over valued or relied on too much, is an issue, so is the presumption that we will never see a group of FAs like this. The Yankees have the money to buy players if they choose. There will always be years of great FAs.

    I donít believe it has to be a 10 year sentence if these guys donít work out
    I agree, more donít pan out than do. I will also say that I donít ever remember any of those names besides montero being close to what these guys have Ben projected to be

    Peraza is described as being an absolute defensive whiz. If he is and ends up hitting 250, hit 15hr, being able to move runners and stealing 25-30 a year? I would be a bit disappointed but would happy live with a SS who did that
    So would I! The icing on the cake, 6 years of control with the saving dedicated to other areas of need.

    Here's the rub, no track record to rely upon. No guarantee. So we are forced to wait two maybe three years and hope, while exceptional talent (possibly once in a lifetime) signs elsewhere for only money.

    There are 750 roster positions in the major leagues among the 30 teams before rosters expand in September, less than 10% of MiLB players make it to an MLB 40 man, let alone the 25 man.

  5. #1160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I just saw this on Yanksgoyard, what a lineup this would be

    Marte- CF
    Judge- RF
    Olson- 1rst
    Stanton DH
    Correa- SS
    Gallo- LF
    Sanchez-C
    Torres-2nd
    DJ-3rd

    I would actually argue that you could make that better by another trade that net you J Ramirez

    Marte-CF
    Judge-RF
    Olson-1st
    Stanton-DH
    J Ram-3rd
    Correa-SS
    Gallo-LF
    Sanchez-C
    DJ-2nd

    I want to see Peraza as the SS for the next decade but it is looking less and less likely.

    Peraza, Wesneski, Sweeney, Pereira +, to get you Olson
    Volpe, Cabrera, Schmidt+, to get you J Ram
    Torres, Gio and Medina +, to get you Marte.

    If you are going to blow it up. Blow it up. If it's the current roster? Blow it up and start over.
    If it's the farm? Blow it up and start over.

    Don't go half way
    If you trade Volpe, Peraza Cabrera, Gio and Torres, who's left to play 2nd, SS and 3rd?

  6. #1161
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    So would I! The icing on the cake, 6 years of control with the saving dedicated to other areas of need.

    Here's the rub, no track record to rely upon. No guarantee. So we are forced to wait two maybe three years and hope, while exceptional talent (possibly once in a lifetime) signs elsewhere for only money.

    There are 750 roster positions in the major leagues among the 30 teams before rosters expand in September, less than 10% of MiLB players make it to an MLB 40 man, let alone the 25 man.
    To me, the bolder is true but also only true for a moment
    Stanton. Yankees signed an MVP. Generational talent. Now what?
    Correa is different? No. He isnít. He plays a more premium position but thatís it. Stanton is a world beater off offensively when heís hot But with 7 years left on his deal, I would guess that the majority of Yankees fans and I would guess a fair majority 60% and up, would trade him if it meant Correa or Marte or simply clearing his contract
    This is t a negative about his performance. Itís a reality that these great players are always goi g to become available on FA.

    This crop of SS is really good. In 2-3 years, I will bet there are more really good SS who become FAs. Maybe not quite the level these guys are but certainly, very good. If Peraza is no good in 2 years, ok. Start shopping

    The bigger question is do people want a sustainable team that can legit challenge every year or an all in to win one and then reset

    I still believe that no one on the roster should be be touchable aside from loaisiga
    I am so unattached from this team that they could trade anyone and I wouldnít care if it got a good return

    Do you want to buy the guys you like or grow them? I think you need to do both
    Gallo, Hicks, Stanton, gio, Torres , riizzo, judge, dj? None are that compelling to me
    Peraza and Volpe are. Dominguez is
    Marte is. I donít like Correa but he is compelling player. Seager isnít as much
    I could go on but wonít

    I also donít understand why those who are quick to grab the names and forego the specs are so certain that will win a title? Yankees spent a ton of money between 2002-2008. They didnít win. Theyíve spent a ton of money since and havenít won
    Chemistry canít be bought You can certainly buy the right ingredients but then you need the right cook
    When you have guys who come up together, I think thereís a better chance of that. And when you have that, you have a compelling team to watch



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  7. #1162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    If you trade Volpe, Peraza Cabrera, Gio and Torres, who's left to play 2nd, SS and 3rd?
    Ramirez-3rd
    Correa-SS
    dJ 2nd

    Itís in that list you quoted

    Those trades and contracts are not happening unless Hal say **** it. It was a fun thought. But there are 3 guys names to play those spots



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  8. #1163
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    I am with Peraza and Volpe.

    I understand your point, that said the Yanks have completely overhauled there scouting, development and MILB coaches. Those specs don't have significant areas of weakness or lack talent in certain areas of their games like the former prospects U mentioned.

    This isn;t Yankee prospect hype like we have seen in the past. Volpe was voted the MILB hitter of the yr a couple weeks ago over guys like Bobby Witt JR, Rushman, and Green. Thats not a little award its a big deal and he's at most 2 seasons away.

    Peraza is the one that much closer, he finished the yr in AAA and hit .297 with 18 HR and 38 SB across 3 levels this yr. He is as good as it gets defensively, incredibly soft hands, has incredible range and a plus plus arm.

    If u want the next Tatis, Vlad Jr, J Ram, Marte, Correa, Seager, Franco, ect they have to be developed. Just because a couple specs have flamed out, u can;t quite trying to find and develop elite young talent
    This is true. Or as the Evil empire once did, buy them when they reach FA. Let someone else wait out the development process. Yes it's a more expensive route, but it could also be argued it's cost effective in terms of development time. A bit of sarcasm Day, no offense intended.

    I hear several members screaming from the roof for the Yankees to spend! They have billions. They implore Hal the tight wad to open his wallet a crack. So I am in a bit of a quandary. I hear both sides of this debate. Let the kids play and develop vs spend, spend, spend. We are the NY Yankees not the Pirates or Padres!

    On this sole issue of a SS, I come down on the side of spending. Primarily due to the opportunity at hand. Imo you seize the opportunity when presented. In this case I opt for the bird in hand.

  9. #1164
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    This is true. Or as the Evil empire once did, buy them when they reach FA. Let someone else wait out the development process. Yes it's a more expensive route, but it could also be argued it's cost effective in terms of development time. A bit of sarcasm Day, no offense intended.

    I hear several members screaming from the roof for the Yankees to spend! They have billions. They implore Hal the tight wad to open his wallet a crack. So I am in a bit of a quandary. I hear both sides of this debate. Let the kids play and develop vs spend, spend, spend. We are the NY Yankees not the Pirates or Padres!

    On this sole issue of a SS, I come down on the side of spending. Primarily due to the opportunity at hand. Imo you seize the opportunity when presented. In this case I opt for the bird in hand.
    thats more than fair. That said, 9-10 yrs deals for anyone, especially when the cost 30M AAV. Especially when it comes to injury prone players like Seager or Correa scare me

    They have Cole, Stanton and even DJ signed to long term deals, they are going to resign Judge, he's going to get a minimum of 30M AAV for 7yrs, If u add a Correa or a Seager thats another 30M plus for 9-10yrs. That would be close to 800m committed to 4-5 guys for the next 7 plus yrs.

    Unless they completely do away with the luxury tax, those big contracts will prevent the Yanks from going after FA in the future. Anytime you sign huge long term deals, it limits what u can do for yrs. Do u really think these SS, that have been injury prone, are worth not investing in FA in that might become available in the future
    Last edited by dayners81; 10-28-2021 at 04:21 PM.

  10. #1165
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    Well guess what , Siemen just hired boras to be his agent . He isnít gonna come cheap and if he doesnít come cheap neither will story .

  11. #1166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I keep saying all in, one way or another. I believe that is the quickest way to figure it out.
    All in and buy your team and blow up the farm? Probably win a WS, maybe 2 then suck for a while
    Or play it close. Make some smart moves and wait on the specs youíve held. If that blows up in your face? You can still pay for players.
    The idea that this is the best group of FAs ever is no different than claiming itís the best group of specs. There will be others if the specs stink, you still have more of them. Trade away and pay your way
    Personally I think that is more sustainable than buying players and trading for high priced ones
    Not the best group ever. The best opportunity. When in recent memory have we seen thiis many quality SS IN THEIR PRIME production years available for only money?

  12. #1167
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Not the best group ever. The best opportunity. When in recent memory have we seen thiis many quality SS IN THEIR PRIME production years available for only money?
    Not only that but signing one of them would in turn leave them with the trade capital that they could use to fill other needs on that team , like catcher , starting pitcher or a first baseman

  13. #1168
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Not the best group ever. The best opportunity. When in recent memory have we seen thiis many quality SS IN THEIR PRIME production years available for only money?
    I didn't mean just SS. So if I wasn't clear, my bad. It's been a while for a group of SS, Jeter and Nomar?
    Harper and Machado a few years ago. "Oh my god!! The Yankees missed out!!!" Then they get Stanton.
    Wasn't Cole a FA in a year with a bunch of other pitchers?

    I would also argue that there are really two standouts but that is solely my opinion. Story is not impressive to me. He's not close to the offense Seager and Correa are and he strikes out way too much. It is a deep class for sure. My point was, in a couple years, there will be another SS. There will be another CF. Another C...
    Free agents don't just go away. There are always great players to be had for the right price.

    Everyone wants the hot names. I get it. You get Seager or Correa, you can move other guys for another position or arm. Absolutely.
    Or you can wait and maybe get all of it for much cheaper
    Last edited by Kinkotheclown; 10-28-2021 at 04:30 PM.



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  14. #1169
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    thats more than fair. That said, 9-10 yrs deals for anyone, especially when the cost 30M AAV. Especially when it comes to injury prone players like Seager or Correa

    They have Cole, Stanton and even DJ signed to long term deals, they are going to resign Judge, he's going to get a minimum of 30M AAV for 7yrs, If u add a Correa or a Seager thats another 30M plus for 9-10yrs. That would be close to 800m committed to 4-5 guys for the next 7 plus yrs.

    Unless they completely do away with the luxury tax, those big contracts will prevent the Yanks from going after FA in the future. Anytime you sign huge long term deals, it limits what u can do for yrs. Do u really think these SS, that have been injury prone, are worth not investing in FA in that might become available in the future
    Point taken. You dont't want to hamstring a club with too many anchors. Ask the Red Sox. I have a feeling the luxury tax threshold will be raised considerably, it could be eliminated but imo highly doubtful.

    This is the opportunity Hal pinched pennies in anticipation. He maneuvered to get under the cap to coincide with this FA class. It would be a terrible opportunity lost should they pass.

  15. #1170
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    thats more than fair. That said, 9-10 yrs deals for anyone, especially when the cost 30M AAV. Especially when it comes to injury prone players like Seager or Correa scare me

    They have Cole, Stanton and even DJ signed to long term deals, they are going to resign Judge, he's going to get a minimum of 30M AAV for 7yrs, If u add a Correa or a Seager thats another 30M plus for 9-10yrs. That would be close to 800m committed to 4-5 guys for the next 7 plus yrs.

    Unless they completely do away with the luxury tax, those big contracts will prevent the Yanks from going after FA in the future. Anytime you sign huge long term deals, it limits what u can do for yrs. Do u really think these SS, that have been injury prone, are worth not investing in FA in that might become available in the future
    I agree. In theory, signing someone is easy and makes sense but numbers are numbers.

    Injury history and contract length are issues to look at.

    Will I be bummed if they sign Seager or Correa? No ****ing way. I will be thrilled Will I be bummed if they don't? Not at all.



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