Off Season Thread aka The Party is over

[Kinkotheclown]

Day, I’m sorry, I know you try to stay positive despite hitting every roadblock so far this offseason but hanging hope on trades and saying Correa and Story are still out there doesn’t make most Yankees fans happy.

The very first negative thing about any of the free agents that were signed so far all has to do with money. The Yankees don’t need to be concerned with money. They can afford to make many mistakes and still be ok and still cover it up…But they have an owner who is always concerned with money…And he will always say the teams payroll is near the top of the league….yea, yea, yea….sometimes you have to take risks and getting fooled by Hal with keeping the team below the luxury tax line last season and not doing anything makes it look more bad for Hal as a Yankee owner.

People will say George did that George did this or George owned in a different time. Save that garbage too. They are making more profit than ever before. George put the profits back into the team. Hal will do that once in a blue moon.

Hal is just too conservative. Nothing since 2009 and yet he sits back and is probably still worried about the money he spent in 2009 with CC, Teix and and Burnett.

Hal is his mother's son. That isn't an insult to him as a person. He is just clearly not from the mold of his father. That was Hank.

I get the frustration but it has more to do with spending money. It is how they value a player. If you are really hungry and someone wants to charge you 25 bucks for a Big Mac would you buy it? If they want to charge 10 bucks? Sure. That's an overpay but it's within your assessment of your hunger vs the hamburger

Look, I won't be shocked if nothing happens. I won't be shocked with Cashman coming out saying, "Peraza is our SS next year. We feel he makes the team more athletic and better defensively. The rest of this team got us to the playoffs last year. They had an off year and were banged up. We ae comfortable with them"

I also won't be shocked by a move that comes in under the wire today or after the dust settles regarding the CBA.

They opened a roster spot. That tells me something is likely in the works.

[johnnyi]

Perhaps, we opened the spot for Story or better yet Freddie Freeman.

However, I wonder if the roster spot has to do with Isiah Kiner-Falefa of the Rangers. It was rumored that after the Rangers signed the 2 star infielders yesterday for $500 Million, the Yankees contacted them about his availability. He's an athletic 26 year old Hawaiian 3B who hits about .260 or so with limited HR power, but who can also serve as a 3rd catcher (He caught 70+ games in the minors one year), like a Jim Leyritz. Projecting his catching stats over a full year, if he were a catcher, IMO he'd give up 15+ passed balls, but would throw out a high percentage of baserunners, probably because he has a 3B arm. Could this be a Cashman Ninja move acquiring someone that is out of a job and then can become so much better like a Gio Urshella?

[IceHawk-181]

I am extremely unhappy with the Yankees. Not because they did not dole out $325MM to Seager, but because of what I see as a pattern of a new business model going back years now.

There are owners in baseball who prioritize winning, even if it means cycling between high payroll years and rebuilding years, and there are owners who think of their teams as guaranteed profit making pieces of a financial portfolio.

Hal is clearly the latter.

Ever since he has taken over Hal has done the bare minimum to give fans hope that "next year" the team will be competitive.

The problem is that next year is never coming.

The Yankees are designed to limp into post season contention by the skin of their teeth and then wash out.

Hal is not willing to push it any further.

The Hal Steinbrenner Yankees exist to make money, not to win ball games.

We are a higher class Oakland.

And I hate Oakland.

[ShadyOne]

So even if you don’t think guys are worth the deals it takes to get them, do it anyways, so you look like you’re trying? Got it…

All these deals have been IMO way high for the caliber player you’re getting, or extremely risky

[IceHawk-181]

Proving the point. Buster says Story is out of our price range.

Trevor Story is too expensive for the Hal Steinbrenner NYY.

[IceHawk-181]

So even if you don’t think guys are worth the deals it takes to get them, do it anyways, so you look like you’re trying? Got it…

All these deals have been IMO way high for the caliber player you’re getting, or extremely risky

Try paying attention.

I have outright stated that the Yankees should leverage their revenue to sign high end free agents at positions of need.

FFS I said years ago that the Yankees should offer massive AAV deals for 1 or 2 year contracts to grab top flight talent for runs.

I would be happy with Seager on the deal Texas gave him.

Same with Max's deal.

If there is one thing I have been screaming into the void that is this forum for the last decade about contracts it is that the market does not yield team friendly contracts.

Pay for talent or sit out October.

[ShadyOne]

Try paying attention.

I have outright stated that the Yankees should leverage their revenue to sign high end free agents at positions of need.

FFS I said years ago that the Yankees should offer massive AAV deals for 1 or 2 year contracts to grab top flight talent for runs.

I would be happy with Seager on the deal Texas gave him.

Same with Max's deal.

If there is one thing I have been screaming into the void that is this forum for the last decade about contracts it is that the market does not yield team friendly contracts.

Pay for talent or sit out October.

I’ve been paying attention. You have been crying for pages..

You would be happy with Seagers deal. I wouldn’t..

I don’t care about a deal being “team friendly”. I don’t view these guys as being worth these deals. So develop what you have, and sit and wait for a guy that is worth the massive price tag. It’s that easy.

If you’re such a big fan, you would know that overspending guarantees nothing.

[IceHawk-181]

I’ve been paying attention. You have been crying for pages..

You would be happy with Seagers deal. I wouldn’t..

I don’t care about a deal being “team friendly”. I don’t view these guys as being worth these deals. So develop what you have, and sit and wait for a guy that is worth the massive price tag. It’s that easy.

If you’re such a big fan, you would know that overspending guarantees nothing.

If a 28 year old lefthanded hitting shortstop with proven post season experience is not worth it, who is?

Seriously.

Where is this magical 20 year old future hall of famer willing to sign for peanuts?

The MLBPA is making a play to push AAVs of $20MM as the basic cost to play for decent pitchers and hitters.

$40MM AAVs are already here.

$50MM AAV contracts are only a year or two away.

If you are not willing to meet the market you better tank for top prospects right now.

[Kinkotheclown]

Again, I think it is how we value a player vs how the FO values a player.
Ok, so you sign Seager to a 10 year deal at 325
Then. you sign judge to a 7-8. year deal I the 240 range
You have Cole for 300 and another 8 years
You have Stanton at 20+ per for another 7 years.


In 4 years, you have a seriously declining Judge and Stanton making 50+ a year.
Seager who will likely be playing second or third at age 32.
Cole will be 35
You still have at least 3 more years of these players at roughly 125 mil per. Even if the cap went to 220, you have more than half you AAV tied up in 4 players, 2 of whom are late 30s and likely shells of what they were.
That leaves you 100 mil to pay your numbers 2-5 starters, pen, including set up and closer and the rest of the position players, including C, CF, LF, 1B, 2B and 4 bench players. So 100 mil for 12 pitchers and 9 position players

Would I have liked Seager? Sure. I think his bat would have been a great addition. Am I distraught? No.
I think the Yankees are better suited using that 32 mil per to re-sign Judge, trade for a cost controlled player or two and fill out the pen.

[Scottish]

If a 28 year old lefthanded hitting shortstop with proven post season experience is not worth it, who is?

Seriously.

Where is this magical 20 year old future hall of famer willing to sign for peanuts?

The MLBPA is making a play to push AAVs of $20MM as the basic cost to play for decent pitchers and hitters.

$40MM AAVs are already here.

$50MM AAV contracts are only a year or two away.

If you are not willing to meet the market you better tank for top prospects right now.

Jesus mate give it a break and chill out. Your realtor must love you. The house you like is only worth $500k but you bid $2m cos someone ten blocks away over paid. Don’t worry though it’s the banks money 💰 on the mortgage you only need to pay the monthly. Who cares if you can’t eat or drink. Certainly not you

[drt1010]

I didn't realize the Yankees were that profitable in 2019. I knew they made money but holy ****. Obviously 2020 was a wash but i'm sure they made significant money last year as well.

Mets I am not certain but I would venture to guess that number includes the YES network revenue, which includes a hefty $3.47B in debt.

[ShadyOne]

If a 28 year old lefthanded hitting shortstop with proven post season experience is not worth it, who is?

Seriously.

Where is this magical 20 year old future hall of famer willing to sign for peanuts?

The MLBPA is making a play to push AAVs of $20MM as the basic cost to play for decent pitchers and hitters.

$40MM AAVs are already here.

$50MM AAV contracts are only a year or two away.

If you are not willing to meet the market you better tank for top prospects right now.

Who said peanuts? I didn’t. You’re getting all hysterical. I am saying he’s not that dude, for me. Is he a consistent MVP level player?

If Im giving a player the bag, I want a guy who’s no question elite. And I don’t believe in throwing out a massive contract “just because”. There’s always another guy out there to pay

You obviously pay for top talent. But that doesn’t mean all talent is worth it. It basically comes down to me disagreeing with you over these guys being the ones you pay. Or maybe you being desperate for something, and me being fine with seeing how things play out. And leaving spots open for the prospects we have to force their way up

[drt1010]

I realize that I'm in the minority on this board, but I don't think the Yankees are cheap. I think the Yankees don't think the value of the players match the value of the contracts or the players don't match the team's analytics or needs. Specifically:

1) The Yankees wanted Seager, but he wasn't signed because he wasn't worth $325 million.

2) Scherzer's salary is also ridiculous at $43.3 million per year for 3 years for a 38 year old, when the previous AAV record for a pitcher was $36 million

3) Ray's salary was reasonable, but he would get bombed in Yankees Stadium, so he's not a good fit, even though he's LH. He might be a better fit on the West Coast with their more spacious stadiums, but at Yankees Stadium, he'd probably be Sonny Gray 2.0. In fact, a return for Sonny Gray for $10 million, while our pitchers develop, would be a better acquisition, then committing to 5 years and $105 million more for Ray.

4) Gausman is a low velocity pitcher who had a weak second half of the season, which makes his signing risky and cost $110 million. I would be, at best, indifferent to his signing and hope for the best, but 5 years, ouch.

5) Starling Marte is a RH OF and we have enough of them.

The point is that if you can't get the players you want or that can fit your needs, you're better off not overpaying. It's a different sport, but other than this past offseason, you never see the Patriots signing players the first two weeks of free agency and then after other teams have overspent, they've signed great players at reasonable prices and they've been overwhelmingly successful later on. In fact, Belicheck has been known to go on vacation during the first week of free agency.

Yes, I'm impatient, but I'm not jumping off any bridges, yet.

Bravo! You ain't alone. I agree completely. Scherzer salary at his age is ....well absurd imo. Good points on all.

[IceHawk-181]

Interesting.

If Hal is not willing to sign athletic, proven, postseason experienced 28-year old shortstops to long-term deals...

...why would anyone think they are going to sign an aging, overlarge, wrong side of 30, right fielder to such a deal?

Judge is likely gone people.

Hal is going to offer him a deal, like Cano, that is just short enough and just cheap enough so the team can blame him for walking away.

[EAGLES3658]

I can't believe there are still people defending the inept front office. People aren't just mad about this offseason. They are mad at the years of stupidity. The Yankees had a WIDE open window from about 2017-2020 and the team didn't make any moves in attempt to put them over the top and win a World Series. Yet, the one year the team stinks, they want to be active and trade for Gallo, Rizzo, Heaney, etc. Just pathetic.