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  1. #3241
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    Johnnyi valid points. While salary should NOT be in any way, shape or form be tied to franchise value, it does have some relative relationship to revenue. Players want their fair share. In recent years they feel they are falling behind.

  2. #3242
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    I agree with most of this. However, I also believe the owners decided early on that they were going to all do nothing but enjoy the holidays and get back to business by January 15th. I actually think this offer came earlier than expected.

    I also think the players are jut being pricks about the 14 playoff teams vs 12 teams, similar to the owners using the universal DH as a weapon. We are talking about one more 2 out of 3 series in each league. I think they are just trying to find some item to use to say that they were willing to negotiate to strike a deal to help with public opinion, which they are losing.

    Also, the players are jealous of the owners because the franchise values have gone up and they are not getting their fair share. However, I don't buy into any talk about players being cheated because the franchise value of the teams has risen dramatically. If I'm one of 25 players on (pick a) baseball team and the franchise value of that team has tripled from $1 billion to $3 billion, there is no way that my salary should automatically triple from $2 million to $6 million. Consider the programmer at Apple who is making $200 K and working in a team of 25 toward the next release. If market forces triple Apple's stock from $1 trillion to $3 trillion, there is no way that that programmer automatically should receive a raise from $200 K to $600 K.
    I completely agree about the middle paragraph My suspicion is that those are points that will be "reluctantly conceded" by both sides in "good faith". Basically they are FOS and know they will give up those points but want to make it sound like a big deal

    I agree thatMLB players shouldn't have salaries tripled but I do think that players should receive and increase, especially those in the minors and lower levels. The owners can clearly afford to double salaries of those guys. Going from 2 mil to 4 or 6 is very different than 50K going to 100K or even 20K to 40 or 50K.



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  3. #3243
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    I talked to one of my buddies last night for about 2hrs. It sounds like the K Marte/Kelly deal isn't going to workout. The reason i was told is that the Yanks don't think Marte can stay healthy playing CF everyday and like will likely be a full time 2nd baseman going forward, which they certainly don't need another one of those.

    AZ also wanted Pereira instead of Flo in the return and the Yanks are extremely reluctant to part with him unless they are getting a long term solution. The Yanks really, really like Pereira and believe what he showed in his 200 ABs last yr is just the start of things to come. Internally they think if he would have had 450 AB's, which is about a full season, he would have hit in the neighborhood of 30-35hrs, while being an elite defender. He didn't come right out and say it but i got the feeling they believe that Pereira is far more likely to be our CFer of the future.

    I wasn't told the deal was completely dead, but the Yanks would have to be 100% sure Marte can stay in CF for them to give up the type of package that is being asked for. So well see what happens

    Getting a LHed 1st baseman is still a top priority after extending Judge. 1 thing to watch for I was told was with the lockout situation still being very much up in the air, they might not have the time to extend Judge and sign a big time FA. Olsen appears to be their top choice but they are unsure the cost is worth only 2yrs of Olsen

    I was told to watch who they hired to take the Chavez role. If they go with a coach like Roja's who is a very good player development guy, that they are likely leaning to build from within. If they go with a regular type coach for that role, then they are probably leaning towards a more veteran roster.

    I was asked by someone yesterday why I thought most of the young player we have brought up over the last 10yr haven't panned out to expectation, even after monster rookie or sophomore yrs. I asked my guy the same question and i was a little surprised by the answer. He said there has been a huge disconnect between the development coaches through the system and what they are trying to do at the MLB level. In stead of building on the foundation that they have come up with, that the MLB coaches have started tinkering with the kids instead of continuing to build on what they already have.

    He used Sanchez as the prime example. He said if you look back at the end of 16 and 17 season, while Gary's defense wasn't great, it was much better than what he is now. They changed his catching style and coach 3 times in 4yrs. Instead of building on the success that he had early, they decided to tear it all down and try to rebuild his entire style. They also were having him make big approach/ swing changes once he started struggling. I'm not defending Sanchez in anyway but it's pretty tough to expect a young player to succeed at the highest level if you're consistently asking him to change the way he is doing everything that he was successful doing. He went on to say Gary basically has been pulled in so many directions, he doesn't know what the right way to do things actually is.

    He said that is also why Torres, Frazier and Andujar have never had the continued success they showed in their early yrs. Apparently someone pointed out that they needed to keep pushing the same messages to their young players at the MLB level as they do when they are coming up through the system. The big reasons why Lawson was promoted as the hitting coach is because of the success the specs had up and down the system last yr. They are trying to create an easier environment for kids to succeed at the MLB level by continuing to push the same thing from the bottom of the system to the top. That is the same reason why Reese was promoted to director of player development, so that they can continue pushing the things that made this group of kids coming successful.

    They believe they have already seen some success doing that at the MLB level with what Blake, Cressey and Briend did with our younger pitchers last yr. They have been pushing the same things with the young pitchers at the MLB as they are in the minors

    To me it makes sense why we have seen regression in recent yrs from kids who were so successful early on. If it isn't broke? To me its finda scary that it took them that long to figure it our, hopefully they continue keeping these kids consistent with what they are teaching them as they develop.

    There is part of the inner circle that wants to go with kids at key positions next yr, their is also another part that wants to make moves to get veterans so the have a better idea what they are going to get.

    From the sounds of it SS is still very much undecided, some want to go with Peraza or possibly Cabrera, other want a stop gap, while others want a long term answer.

    They are very much in on Suzuki, but there seem to be some question if they want him for CF or they would put Gallo in CF. It also seems he is Bostons #1 target

    While they would like to make a move behind the plate, they aren't sure there is a big enough upgrade available that is worth the asking price.

    He said there is absolutely a chance that we see them go with Hicks and Sanchez again, which is disappointing. It sounds like with the possibility that the season doesn't start on time, it could greatly effect what they are going to do when they are allowed to make moves again

    As always take it for whatever its worth

  4. #3244
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    Thanks Day.

    It is startling that a franchise of this wealth and magnitude, with all the resources they have at their disposal, have such a disconnect between levels. That makes it pretty clear why so many specs fail for the Yankees.
    It's almost like their entire minor league experience is about how to cook the best chicken and they get to the MLB team and the Yankees FO asks them to forget about chicken and cook steak and pork .
    When they can't? They are a failure and sent back down to cook chicken.
    As opposed to, keep cooking that chicken but here are a couple new recipes for pork and beef to practice.
    As long as you keep making chicken, these new recipes will become good over time.

    It's simultaneously, quite arrogant and stupid.

    It sounds like basically, the Anals and a lack of proper coaching, ruined Gary.

    As far as Lawson's promotion, I am hoping that has a similar foreshadowing to a hiring like Rojas. If Lawson is there to make that transition easier for the kids, I would imagine they plan on using the kids.

    I still say no, to the Olson trade unless the ask drops.



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  5. #3245
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    Judge, Sanchez, Torres, and Frazier were not great minor league hitters. They didn't come into their own until they made their major league debut. It's pretty damn tough to claim the yankees "ruined" these players by tinkering with them.

  6. #3246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Thanks Day.

    It is startling that a franchise of this wealth and magnitude, with all the resources they have at their disposal, have such a disconnect between levels. That makes it pretty clear why so many specs fail for the Yankees.
    It's almost like their entire minor league experience is about how to cook the best chicken and they get to the MLB team and the Yankees FO asks them to forget about chicken and cook steak and pork .
    When they can't? They are a failure and sent back down to cook chicken.
    As opposed to, keep cooking that chicken but here are a couple new recipes for pork and beef to practice.
    As long as you keep making chicken, these new recipes will become good over time.

    It's simultaneously, quite arrogant and stupid.

    It sounds like basically, the Anals and a lack of proper coaching, ruined Gary.

    As far as Lawson's promotion, I am hoping that has a similar foreshadowing to a hiring like Rojas. If Lawson is there to make that transition easier for the kids, I would imagine they plan on using the kids.

    I still say no, to the Olson trade unless the ask drops.
    It really is baffling that this team failed for even `1yr to recognize that, much less for how many yrs in a row? after hearing what i heard last night, i'm genuinely surprised that we have had any success with young players. Where would this team be if they actually focused on helping to continue develop this current core?

    I'm very hopeful that the promotion of these guys from within means that they are serious about helping these kids succeed. I'm confident were going to see positive this on the pitching side and things will continue to improve there. IMO that trio of Blake, Cressey and Briend is about as good as it gets. We've already seen some impressive results from them, especially getting pitchers to add/improve by adding the sinker/ CU.

    On the position side, were going to have to wait and see. I'm very hopeful, but they have to stick to a consistent development plan. I look at a guy like Flo and i'm wondering if his failure to succeed as he went up the ladder is on him or on the poor coaching.

    It's still mind boggling that it took them lets say 5yrs to recognize there was a huge disconnect between the MILB and the MLB staffs. If you look at guys like Sevy, Sanchez, Torres, Andujar, Frazier and even Judge, where would we be if the had continued to develop them like they did in the MILB. Sanchez was an absolute monster his first couple yrs, would he be the best offensive C in BB if they had done it the right way, Its hard to argue with what he did his first couple yrs. Andujar was a runner up to Ohtani in the ROY voting and now he's an after thought. Torres looked like the face of the franchise going into the 20 season, now he's in a fight to keep his job and very likely could be traded. Frazier was a big time spec, had a huge yr in 20 and now he's gone.

    You have to wonder if the injury issue's that were a large part of the regression were caused because they were pushing them to change something or rebuild something else. Lots of questions but very few acceptable answers.

    I completely agree about the anals and poor coaching being the downfall of Gary. Unfortunately that ship has sailed and they need to cut bait and move on

    It's really not hard to see why this team hasn't won in 12yrs, where would this team be if those guys mentioned were just what they were their first couple yrs. Sevy would be an ace, Torres would be a top 3 2nd baseman, Andujar i don't know because of the defensive issues but he was arguably our best all around hitter in 18. The list goes on.

    They started improving from the bottom to the top the last few yrs, hopefully it sticks because the talent we have coming in Cabrera, Volpe, Peraza, Pereira on the position side is as good as it gets. Pitching wise Gil, Schmidt, Medina, Wesneski, Waldichuk, Vasquez, Way and others is top notch, it would be an absolute shame if they didn't get much more out of this group coming than they got from the last one.

  7. #3247
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    Web, if u look at those guys numbers from there 1st couple yrs then what they have done in yrs 3 on u see there was serious regression even with Judge.

    I dont think tinkering was the problem but failure to continue building on the foundation that they showed success with in their first couple yrs.

  8. #3248
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    He thinks one of the trades the Yanks have done is for Olsen for a package of Torres, Andujar, Schmidt and Randy Vasquez.
    Am I the only one who would hate this deal? I think Torres is a bounce back candidate now that he back to second, and if the Yankees have not ruined him, Andujar will be an all-star DH on some team. If I were working for the Red Sox, I would be waiting in the weeds for some team to acquire Andujar as a throw in to some deal and then do whatever I could to acquire him. He would then be the Red Sox DH and slam 100 doubles of that damn green monster every year. I know Olsen is a great player, but I would prefer Rizzo because he only costs money.

    As for Andujar, if we don't acquire Suzuki, I would have Stanton and Andujar share left field and DH duties. I know Andujar's glove is a liability, but he is a contact guy and would be great in the five spot in the lineup.

  9. #3249
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJO34 View Post
    Am I the only one who would hate this deal? I think Torres is a bounce back candidate now that he back to second, and if the Yankees have not ruined him, Andujar will be an all-star DH on some team. If I were working for the Red Sox, I would be waiting in the weeds for some team to acquire Andujar as a throw in to some deal and then do whatever I could to acquire him. He would then be the Red Sox DH and slam 100 doubles of that damn green monster every year. I know Olsen is a great player, but I would prefer Rizzo because he only costs money.

    As for Andujar, if we don't acquire Suzuki, I would have Stanton and Andujar share left field and DH duties. I know Andujar's glove is a liability, but he is a contact guy and would be great in the five spot in the lineup.
    I wouldn't mind that deal for Olson. Basically trading a young, underperforming, righty hitting, potential star, second baseman for a young star lefty hitting first baseman.
    I love Andujar but with Hicks in CF, Gallo in LF and Judge in RF with Stanton and I am sure someone like Flo as the 4th OF, he's trade bait. Even if it's not to the A's, I think Andujar is gone to a national league team looking for a DH.

    I think that trade makes the Yankees better without losing too much.



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  10. #3250
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJO34 View Post
    Am I the only one who would hate this deal? I think Torres is a bounce back candidate now that he back to second, and if the Yankees have not ruined him, Andujar will be an all-star DH on some team. If I were working for the Red Sox, I would be waiting in the weeds for some team to acquire Andujar as a throw in to some deal and then do whatever I could to acquire him. He would then be the Red Sox DH and slam 100 doubles of that damn green monster every year. I know Olsen is a great player, but I would prefer Rizzo because he only costs money.

    As for Andujar, if we don't acquire Suzuki, I would have Stanton and Andujar share left field and DH duties. I know Andujar's glove is a liability, but he is a contact guy and would be great in the five spot in the lineup.
    Of all the proposed trades for Olsen i hate this one the least. I agree Torres is a huge bounce back candidate but I think Olsen is worth that. Andujar is a DH, i absolutely love the bat and arm but he has no position. With Stanton on the team, we really don't have a place for him.

    I agree Rizzo is probably the best optition because we would only be giving him money but I think the Yanks are going to try and get Olsen. I'd rather see Torres go than Cabrera or Peraza

  11. #3251
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Web, if u look at those guys numbers from there 1st couple yrs then what they have done in yrs 3 on u see there was serious regression even with Judge.

    I dont think tinkering was the problem but failure to continue building on the foundation that they showed success with in their first couple yrs.
    But that's still an issue at the major league level rather than screwing up what made them "successful" through the minors. Judge has definitely regressed when it comes to his bb%, although he has improved at making more contact outside the zone, and he appears to have better pitch recognition and striking out less. I actually prefer this version of judge, although i honestly miss the guy who hit 52 home runs. I think Gary is the only one who might not have gotten the right coaching, but honestly, when a player goes as bad like he has, asking a hitting coach to save him is an impossible task.

  12. #3252
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJO34 View Post
    Am I the only one who would hate this deal? I think Torres is a bounce back candidate now that he back to second, and if the Yankees have not ruined him, Andujar will be an all-star DH on some team. If I were working for the Red Sox, I would be waiting in the weeds for some team to acquire Andujar as a throw in to some deal and then do whatever I could to acquire him. He would then be the Red Sox DH and slam 100 doubles of that damn green monster every year. I know Olsen is a great player, but I would prefer Rizzo because he only costs money.

    As for Andujar, if we don't acquire Suzuki, I would have Stanton and Andujar share left field and DH duties. I know Andujar's glove is a liability, but he is a contact guy and would be great in the five spot in the lineup.
    I think this is very wishful thinking at this point. Torres isn't going to bounce back just because you move him to second base. Andujar is another lost cause. He hasn't stayed healthy in 3 years and even his hitting may be questionable at this point. Andujar is also not a leftfielder. He looked terrible last year in the outfield despite how much time he's had out there to practice. I would make that deal in a heartbeat unless that same package can net us something better.

  13. #3253
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    Dom is working this winter on changing his swing according to Eli Fishman. Video https://twitter.com/i/status/1481794625337802756

  14. #3254
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Dom is working this winter on changing his swing according to Eli Fishman. Video https://twitter.com/i/status/1481794625337802756
    Any reason for the change? Cut down on Ks?



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  15. #3255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Any reason for the change? Cut down on Ks?
    More contact, cut down on the K's, trying to get away from the big HR swing is what i've read.

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