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  1. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Look at those goal post run, that wasn't remotely close to what i asked. How is Correa not injury prone? He torn his thumb ligament when he was in the MILB, He only played in 99 games in 15, 109 in 17, 110 in 18, and only 75 in 19. All those season were between his ages 20-25 seasons. Wouldn't signing him to a 10yr plus deal at lets say a minimum of 30M AAV which is at the very low end of what it will take, concern you because of his injury history? Why bring in another 30m injury risk when we already have Judge and Stanton who are injury prone

    Your right about position players recovering long term differently than pitchers. Pitchers usually continue to have arm issues as 99% of pitchers do, body injuries like chronic low back problems seem to affect position players much more, especially as they age.

    quick question, would u consider Correa or Seager athletic because they have both missed alot of time to injury? asking for a friend
    Yeah both are injury prone and no goal posts were moved because I said on my original post that I wanted Correa because he is better defensively. I also donít love the idea of adding yet another player who has gotten tj surgery to the team . We have enough of those . And btw positional players actually recover worse long term from tj surgery than pitchers do since they play every day and they hit . But since both Seager and Correa are injury prone I still go with Correa since he is better defensively .

  2. #1112
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    It isnít often that first base is a position of weakness for the New York Yankees. To be exact, they seemed to be in good shape entering 2021. Luke Voit was coming off of a COVID season home run title. His batting line in 744 plate appearances between 2019 and 2020 was a robust .268/.366/.512 (135 OPS+; 11.8% BB) with 43 home runs. Injuries have a way of changing perspective, however, and it is safe to say that the Yankees have to look deeply at the position this coming winter.

    What may they do? Letís see:

    Choice 1: The status quo

    Voit was a productive first baseman before 2021, so is the status quo a reasonable way to go? The numbers above say ďYes,Ē but there are red flags that we can no longer ignore. He declined sharply in 2021 (.239/.328/.437 in 241 plate appearances) and is not good defensively. He fought through injuries and the acquisition of Anthony Rizzo, but can we trust that as the only reason for the decline? Voit will only be 31 entering the 2022 campaign with three more years of team control due to the late start to his career. While rumors persisted that the Yankees couldnít find a buyer for him at the trade deadline, I find that hard to believe. He is cheap, not far removed from being productive, and has several seasons of control.

    I am not going with DJ LeMahieu at first base full-time. That limits his value as a defender, even if he is at the point of his career where we would expect to see a decline defensively. Even if LeMahieu were to bounce back somewhat offensively, he would be a below-average player for first base. The same holds for Joey Gallo, who has too much defensive value in the outfield to move him. Can you deploy these players at first base in a handful of games? Yes. Gallo hasnít played the position since 2018, but that is due to his ability to play the outfield. He compiled a +2 DRS in 458.1 innings in 2017 and a 0 DRS in 278.1 innings in 2018.

    If the Yankees donít want to keep the status quo, a brand new market can open up for Voit this offseason. The National League will likely adopt the DH rule (owners and players both want it). While many National League teams have internal candidates, a proven bat like Voitís will likely have suitors. I wouldnít expect much of a return. However, he should get you something decent.

    Choice 2: Look within

    Looking within is a non-starter from the jump. The Yankees will not use Chris Gittens as an everyday first base option. He may not even be here anymore. Catcher Josh Breaux (Rule 5 eligible) may be a future first baseman, but that isnít happening at the MLB level in 2022. He has yet to play a professional inning at first base. None of their current big-time prospects is considered a candidate to move to first base at this time, which is a good thing. First base is where you place youngsters when no other positions are possible. While Austin Wells may someday play some first base, he is athletic enough to cover the outfield if the catching thing doesnít work out long-term.

    Deep in the system, you will find powerhouse Anthony Garcia, who spent 2021 torturing baseballs down in the lower areas of the minors. Garcia split time with the GCL and Low-A affiliates, where he hit a combined .306/.444/.678 in 153 plate appearances with an eye-popping 14 home runs and 37 runs batted in. Garcia has yet to prove this is sustainable in the lower minors, never mind Double-A and Triple-A. The path for him is a long one. The only definitive statement you can make is that he survived the teenage attrition test. Not all prospects do.

    Choice 3: The free agents

    Since I havenít yet painted a rosy picture for first base, it is safe to assume that I lean towards looking outside the organization. You would be correct in that assessment.

    The Yankees traded a pair of good prospects (RHP Alexander Vizcaino and OF Kevin Alcantara) at the trade deadline for Anthony Rizzo, which should mean that they thought of him as a potential longer-term solution. Rizzo was far from spectacular for a first baseman with the Yankees, hitting .249/.340/.428 in 200 plate appearances with an 8% BB rate and 14% K rate. His numbers were impacted by a below-average BABIP. However, the Yankees have to ask themselves whether or not 2021 was a fluke or a sign of Rizzoís new production norm. If they feel the latter is true, he is not coming back. Brian Cashman stressed contact hitting in his press conference, and while Rizzo didnít generate a strong batting average, his ability to make contact consistently will be appealing. Rizzoís days as a top-flight first baseman are likely over, and the Yankees wonít get into any bidding wars. I imagine they would top out at three years with maybe an option for a 4th year. Rizzo may want more than that, which is when the Yankees should move on.

    The best free-agent first baseman on the market is Freddie Freeman, who may as well be Mr. Brave at this point. Now 32 years old, Freeman hit .300/.393/.503 (135 wRC+) over 695 plate appearances this season. Over the past four years, Freeman has played in all but seven of the Bravesí 384 games. He has posted a wRC+ of 130 or above in every season going back to 2013. Freeman is a legitimate superstar player who, like Rizzo, is starting to move up in age. Regardless, the Braves are likely to make him a top priority this winter. If they let him slip out onto the market, the Yankees should make a phone call.

    Brandon BeltĎs career was seemingly dead after posting a rough .242/.340/.408 (102 wRC+) line over 1,072 plate appearances between 2018 and 2019. He bounced back strongly in the shortened 2020 campaign and proved it was no fluke in 2021. This past season, he hit .274/.378/.597 (158 wRC+) over 381 plate appearances with 29 home runs. Belt has always drawn his share of walks. However, a red flag may be a strikeout rate that reached 27% this year. At 34 years old, no team is looking at Belt as a long-term solution. I would barely be comfortable with a 2-year commitment, given that you are locking in a guy who canít do anything else but play first base. However, his production lately has been elite. He will want to cash in on that, and I am not sure the Yankees should be comfortable going too long on a deal for him.

    Nobody else on the free-agent market stands out as a starting option. Perhaps the Yankees look the way of Brad Miller as an insurance policy with power and versatility. Miller strikes out too much (29.7% in 2021), and you likely donít want to deploy him as an everyday player. That said, if an injury occurs, who do you want to step in Ė Miller or Rougned Odor? If you said the latter, you are delusional. A signing of Miller does improve the bench. He should not be in contention for an everyday first base job. The Yankees once signed Miller to a minor league contract (2019), but they never deployed him in MLB. Since they let him go, he has compiled a .236/.331/.480 (114 wRC+; 40 HR) line over 718 plate appearances. His not-so-ideal K rate (28.3%) is balanced somewhat by his 11.3% BB rate. He isnít the contact guy that Cashman has talked about, but the bench should consist of the best possible players you can find. Miller would be a strong candidate.

    After watching the Yankees play through a season of horrors fundamentally, they will not sign Kyle Schwarber to play first base. I canít imagine them even thinking about signing him for such a purpose.

    Choice 4: A trade

    You canít have a trade discussion without bringing up Matt Olson, who has emerged as one of the best first basemen in baseball out in Oakland.

    Olson is coming off of a 2021 season where he hit .271/.371/.540 (146 wRC+; 13.1% BB, 16.8% K) over 673 plate appearances. The number that jumps out at me is the K%, as he compiled a 26.3% rate over 1,668 plate appearances between 2017-2020. With two more years of team control, Olson will not be cheap. Oakland could decide to keep him and see where his value stands at the trade deadline or over next winter. That said, it is hard to imagine Olson having a higher value than he has now. He would likely cost the Yankees one of their top shortstop prospects + a top pitching prospect + a deal sweetener or two. The Athletics have a near-ready shortstop prospect in Nick Allen, who supposedly has elite-level defensive capability. However, he is not on the same level as a prospect as Oswald Peraza or Anthony Volpe. The last time the Athletics made a big trade with the Yankees, they targeted the athleticism of Jorge Mateo and the arm of James Kaprielian, injured at the time. Olson will come with a steeper price tag. They will ask about Luis Medina. They will request a top shortstop. They will look at prospects in the 15-20 range, where talents like Oswaldo Cabrera and Hayden Wesneski reside. Expect to feel ďprospect painĒ if the Yankees decide to go here. Oakland has no interest in the prospects that are falling on depth charts.

    Josh Bell was acquired by the Nationals last winter to help bolster their offense for another playoff push. While that push never materialized, it was no fault of Bellís. He hit .261/.347/.476 (138 wRC+; 11.4% BB, 17.8% K) over 568 plate appearances. Bell will be entering his final year of arbitration and will make approximately $9 million in 2022. That is a price the Yankees should be more than willing to pay, and he would come at a cheaper prospect cost than Olson if they chose to go in this direction.

    I have seen a few suggestions about the Yankees inquiring about Cody Bellinger, who can handle both first base and center field (the Dodgers havenít asked him to play much first base since his 2018 campaign). Here is the problem with Bellinger: If the Dodgers think he is in a steep decline that he canít escape, they will trade him for the best value they can extract. If they feel that 2021 was a fluke, they wonít even entertain offers that arenít through the roof. In other words, if you can acquire Bellinger, do so with extreme caution. The Dodgers are not in the business of giving away players.

    Bottom Line:

    There is nowhere for the Yankees to turn within the current organization unless they have faith in Voit. That is a risk, as Voit is too injury-prone. We saw what the Yankees deployed at first base during his absences.

    The position screams ďUPGRADE NEEDED!Ē for 2022 and beyond. Can Rizzo get anywhere in the neighborhood of what he was before 2020? Can the Yankees pry Olson away if he is available? Could they pivot away from both and see what the price is for Bell on a 1-year contract? All three should be options on the table. Brian Cashman will inevitably check the market for someone undervalued, but one must assume that the Yankees arenít playing around at this position next season.

  3. #1113
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    I either go with dj at first or I trade for Olson and manea .

  4. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    They also need good defense at ss and Seager is not that good defensively . And my concerns with Seagerís health is for the first 5 years of that big contract , not the last 4 or 5 years of it . A guy who has had tj surgery and back issues at such a young age is not a good candidate for aging well at high demand positions like ss and 3b . Again I rather sacrifice a little offense for better defense and get Correa . Especially if they are both gonna get similar deals
    this is also what u said, u are worried about Seagers injury history in the first 5yrs of a long term deal. I asked how is Correa not injury prone ?

  5. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Yeah both are injury prone and no goal posts were moved because I said on my original post that I wanted Correa because he is better defensively. I also donít love the idea of adding yet another player who has gotten tj surgery to the team . We have enough of those . And btw positional players actually recover worse long term from tj surgery than pitchers do since they play every day and they hit . But since both Seager and Correa are injury prone I still go with Correa since he is better defensively .
    please provide proof of that statement,

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    this is also what u said, u are worried about Seagers injury history in the first 5yrs of a long term deal. My question is how is Seager not injury prone? I asked how is Correa not injury prone ?
    And I said both are injury prone in my post above . And in the end if I had to choose between the two I still go with Correa because he is better defensively and I donít love the idea of adding yet another player who has had tj in the last 3 years to this team .

  7. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    And I said both are injury prone in my post above . And in the end if I had to choose between the two I still go with Correa because he is better defensively and I donít love the idea of adding yet another player who has had tj in the last 3 years to this team .
    Still waiting for that proof that "positional players actually recover worse long term from tj surgery than pitchers do since they play every day and they hit" please tell where u got this info, or is this another made up speculation ?

  8. #1118
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    https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2019/10...-stats-history

    Says there about one fifth of the 45 positional players in that study didnít return to the majors yet since getting it . And it said Seager came back a bit soon despite being gone for about a year . Also says it can effect their hitting . Even talks about how didi isnít quite the same after

  9. #1119
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    If anyone cares, our ''not athletic'' centerfielder got engaged.

    Thankfully we as fans were warned that guys that get injured often aren't athletes. Phew, I feel much better now.

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  10. #1120
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    I didn't know non-athletes can throw baseballs 105.5 mph.

    Imagine what an athlete can do?

    https://www.stack.com/a/aaron-hicks-105-mph-throw/

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  11. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2019/10...-stats-history

    Says there about one fifth of the 45 positional players in that study didnít return to the majors yet since getting it . And it said Seager came back a bit soon despite being gone for about a year . Also says it can effect their hitting . Even talks about how didi isnít quite the same after
    also says "the sample size of position players who have come back from the procedure is so small itís difficult to say what, exactly, a position playerís recovery from Tommy John should look like."

    There is nothing conclusive in that article other than both pitchers and position players don't have nearly as good of a season the yr following their surgery's

  12. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhSoSlick View Post
    I didn't know non-athletes can throw baseballs 105.5 mph.

    Imagine what an athlete can do?

    https://www.stack.com/a/aaron-hicks-105-mph-throw/

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    Don't forget Bo Jackson and Griffey, they weren't athletic either

  13. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    also says "the sample size of position players who have come back from the procedure is so small itís difficult to say what, exactly, a position playerís recovery from Tommy John should look like."

    There is nothing conclusive in that article other than both pitchers and position players don't have nearly as good of a season the yr following their surgery's
    It does nothing to bolster his argument, in fact I'd argue it makes his argument weaker. When did reading comprehension become so difficult?

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  14. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Don't forget Bo Jackson and Griffey, they weren't athletic either
    Man I heard JJ Watt is under going season ending shoulder surgery. Guess that guy isn't an athlete either. Sad.

    I almost feel like taking off ignore just for the comedic value.

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  15. #1125
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    Day, has your source heard anything about Seager? I hear he's the Yankees top target around 9/10 years. Then turn and flip some high end middle infield prospects for some high quality starters and a lefty batting first baseman.

    Obviously everything is speculation at this point, but seems to be a common talking point lately.

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

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