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  1. #2761
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    I think they have to do something behind the plate, Sanchez/ Higgy just doesn;t cut it. The pitching needs to get better and having a plus defensive C behind the plate would be a really good start. If you have pitchers that are afraid the throw an off speed pitch in the dirt because of pass ball concerns, u taking a big weapon away from them
    Campusano (SD) and Melendez (KC) are 2 really good specs. Maybe you find a trade for a guy like that. Not them specifically but a good AAA spec.
    I'd love to get Rutschman from the Os but he's the number 2 spec in baseball. But a switch hitting, great defensive guy? That would be lovely.



    Ignorance is bliss

  2. #2762
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    1,811
    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Shady, Jango you are both long time valued members. Your insights meaningful. Your contributions appreciated. No reason we can't simply agree to disagree without it spiraling out of control and degenerating into pointless argumentative bickering. I ask we seek a peaceful resolution rather than escalation. Thanks in advance.
    Sorry, Doctor. I know these things get out of hand and I regret getting pulled into that crap. As you can see, I've backed off out of respect to you dudes. But, if he wants to get down and dirty, he can DM me and we can take this brawl into the alley.
    POPS - Crotona Park - 1952

  3. #2763
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tacoma, Wa
    Posts
    13,569
    I still don't understand trading Sands for basically nothing. He's an elite receiver, plus arm and was pretty good with the bat last yr. He would have at least been an upgrade over Higgy. Its not like he would have hit 30 hrs but when u are elite defensively u can live with a league avg bat, IMO.

    It really makes zero sense to have traded Sands and left Breaux unprotected. Both could have played a big role behind the plate

    I think its probably going to take 1 of Dom or Perza and probably 1-2 pitching specs like Gil, Schmidt, Medina or Wesneski to get Olsen. Olsen had an absolute monster yr last yr and i think we'd have pay a premium to get him. Itís not like were the only team interested in him. Rather than probably having to give up 2 of our top 6 or 7 to get Olsen, id much prefer them sign Freeman or just bring back Rizzo.

    Rizzo is probably the most likely option for us and id be fine with him on a 3-4 yr deal. I think u might see a resurgence in his bat if he got to play half his games in YS. He's also still elite defensively.
    Im just not sold that Olsen is a big enough upgrade over Rizzo if that cost includes Peraza and Gil type package. I would offer Cabrera, Schmidt, Wells and Flo for Olsen and Murphy. If thats not enough id just bring Rizzo back.

    I really like the idea of trading for Murphy and Manaea from Oakland. Then if were going to part with elite specs id rather have Reynolds or K Marte.

    Another interesting thought is signing Suzuki to play CF. I listened to a advanced scout talk about how good he is on both sides of the ball and would easily be able to play CF. The other nice thing about him is he's only projected to cost something in the range of 4yrs 50-60m. Of course id rather the idea of Reynolds/ K Matre but Suzuki only would cost money. The other 2 would require an expensive spec package. Im really starting to like the idea of Suzuki, especially for the cost

  4. #2764
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    8,319
    We seem to be in lock step and the powers that be should hire us to remake the roster.

    As previously stated, I'd be happy with Manaea, Murphy, Freeman/Rizzo and Suzuki.

    I also agree on the waste of a trade of Sands but I think he was a roster casualty to keep Britton and get the insurance money on Britton's $14 million contract. At 70%-80% we're talking about $10 or $11 million.

  5. #2765
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    17,923
    I wouldnít even bother with Rizzo. Unless heís dirt cheap. Make a real move, or let Voit take the job, and see what he can do.
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 12-07-2021 at 09:32 AM.

  6. #2766
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Tacoma, Wa
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    13,569
    We've already have seen what Voit can do....get hurt alot. When he was healthy, he was awful defensively and struck out w RISP . If we already have the first baseman on the roster it ll be DJ IMO

    I just dont see how they could possibly bring Voit back after very publiclytrying to give him away at the deadline and then not playing him down the stretch

  7. #2767
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    Dec 2008
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    17,923
    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    We've already have seen what Voit can do....get hurt alot. When he was healthy, he was awful defensively and struck out w RISP . If we already have the first baseman on the roster it ll be DJ IMO

    I just dont see how they could possibly bring Voit back after very publiclytrying to give him away at the deadline and then not playing him down the stretch
    Thatís fair. But we spite ourselves by giving a lot of money to Rizzo? Who cares what it looks like. Do what makes sense. Iíd say letís not fool ourselves into thinking we are real contenders, if we donít make major moves. Whatís Rizzo going to cost? And for how long?

    Or like you said, we have DJ. Go get a SS that can hold the fort, and itís all settled. Move Gleyber back to 2B
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 12-07-2021 at 12:19 PM.

  8. #2768
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Tacoma, Wa
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    13,569
    Help me with something, what didnt Rizzo do well for us last yr or what were your expectations?

    Hes still elite defensively, he's not Olsen/ Freeman good but he'll cost about half of Freeman will get and only will cost money. If they can sign Freeman I would absolutely do that as my first choice.

    Olsen comes down to cost, if the A s asking price includes Any of our top 3, plus plus... i d be pretty hesitant to give up a package with Peraza and Gil. If it's Schmidt/Wells it makes alot of sense.

    We only have so many big chips this winter. I donít think the differences between Olsen and Rizzo is big enough to give up any of our top 3, especially when u could use those same specs to get Reynold or a K Marte.

  9. #2769
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    17,923
    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Help me with something, what didnt Rizzo do well for us last yr or what were your expectations?

    Hes still elite defensively, he's not Olsen/ Freeman good but he'll cost about half of Freeman will get and only will cost money. If they can sign Freeman I would absolutely do that as my first choice.

    Olsen comes down to cost, if the A s asking price includes Any of our top 3, plus plus... i d be pretty hesitant to give up a package with Peraza and Gil. If it's Schmidt/Wells it makes alot of sense.

    We only have so many big chips this winter. I donít think the differences between Olsen and Rizzo is big enough to give up any of our top 3, especially when u could use those same specs to get Reynold or a K Marte.
    Iím meh on his bat. And whatís the cost/length? Thatís the deciding factor

    Iím also looking at what we have right now. I think you have to move Gley to 2nd. And DJ will play every day
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 12-07-2021 at 01:19 PM.

  10. #2770
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    8,319
    Ideally, I'd like to field an infield of a Freeman/Rizzo?Olson, Torres at 2B, Peraza at SS and DJ at 3B. Simultaneously, I'm looking at Voit, Andujar and Urshella being traded. However, thee are so many combinations.

    If no 1B is signed or acquired by trade, then DJ is the 1B and Urshella stays at 3B for now until Volpe is ready or Urshella is traded ad Voit stays at 1B with DJ at 3B, but Voit at 1B is risky

    If Torres is traded, then DJ is the 2B and Urshella stays at 3B for now, until Volpe is ready

  11. #2771
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    Ideally, I'd like to field an infield of a Freeman/Rizzo?Olson, Torres at 2B, Peraza at SS and DJ at 3B. Simultaneously, I'm looking at Voit, Andujar and Urshella being traded. However, thee are so many combinations.

    If no 1B is signed or acquired by trade, then DJ is the 1B and Urshella stays at 3B for now until Volpe is ready or Urshella is traded ad Voit stays at 1B with DJ at 3B, but Voit at 1B is risky

    If Torres is traded, then DJ is the 2B and Urshella stays at 3B for now, until Volpe is ready
    I was going with Gio at 3rd, sign a half-decent SS, Torres 2nd, DJ 1st, with Voit there behind DJ.

    That leaves possibilities for a kid to force his way up. And leaves money/flexibility going forward to do whatever we have to, potentially. Of course if some of those guys arenít here, throw that all away lol.

  12. #2772
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    Oct 2005
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    Tacoma, Wa
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I was going with Gio at 3rd, sign a half-decent SS, Torres 2nd, DJ 1st, with Voit there behind DJ.

    That leaves possibilities for a kid to force his way up. And leaves money/flexibility going forward to do whatever we have to, potentially. Of course if some of those guys arenít here, throw that all away lol.
    I would say Rizzo is probably going to get 3-4yr deal at 15-18m per

    I will be very surprised if they go into next yr with a worse INF than they had at the end of last yr.

  13. #2773
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    I would say Rizzo is probably going to get 3-4yr deal at 15-18m per

    I will be very surprised if they go into next yr with a worse INF than they had at the end of last yr.
    Iím not saying that because I think itís better. Although if Gleyber comes back to form, it is. Or if Gio rebounds. Or DJÖ

    Iím saying it because I wouldnít pay Rizzo that, and because Iíd like to have openings for the young guys. Thatís the goal/hope

    If we are pretending that making no major moves is going to give us a good shot at contending, thatís the worst outcome. Iím hoping to avoid that. This is all assuming we donít make any major signings/trades
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 12-07-2021 at 08:38 PM.

  14. #2774
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    5,155
    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Help me with something, what didnt Rizzo do well for us last yr or what were your expectations?

    Hes still elite defensively, he's not Olsen/ Freeman good but he'll cost about half of Freeman will get and only will cost money. If they can sign Freeman I would absolutely do that as my first choice.

    Olsen comes down to cost, if the A s asking price includes Any of our top 3, plus plus... i d be pretty hesitant to give up a package with Peraza and Gil. If it's Schmidt/Wells it makes alot of sense.

    We only have so many big chips this winter. I donít think the differences between Olsen and Rizzo is big enough to give up any of our top 3, especially when u could use those same specs to get Reynold or a K Marte.
    rizzo is washed up he was awful this year at the plate he was awful in the games he played in 2020.. the idea of giving him 16-18 million a year for 3-4 years makes me want to puke..and you are wrong their is a huge difference in the production of olsen and rizzo.. resigning rizzo is a signal of defeat..

  15. #2775
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    Oct 2005
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    Tacoma, Wa
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny ny View Post
    rizzo is washed up he was awful this year at the plate he was awful in the games he played in 2020.. the idea of giving him 16-18 million a year for 3-4 years makes me want to puke..and you are wrong their is a huge difference in the production of olsen and rizzo.. resigning rizzo is a signal of defeat..
    Because he didn[t hit alot of HRs? if the choice is signing Rizzo and trading for a Marte or Reynolds Vs trading for Olsen and Hicks in CF. Ill take Rizzo and a new CFer over Olsen/Hicks. My point is the difference in production isn't worth the cost in specs, especially when u could use those same specs to get a starting pitcher, an actually good catcher or a CFer.

    Rizzo hit .249 with 22 hr's, 52 BB and only K'd 87 times last yr. He makes hard contact and is tough to strike out, to me that combined with his elite defense

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