Off Season Thread aka The Party is over

[drt1010]

If they can hold onto Medina, I have no issue moving Gil for Montas or for any young player who will upgrade the team for the near future.
The big question, is Montas that much better than Gil? And, even if he is, will he be in another year?
That's a tricky one. Do you trade the soon to be 24 year old starter with a great arm for the soon to be 29 year old starter who's had a couple really good seasons?

Risk / reward. Do you take the " surer" thing and go with the resume' or gamble on a young gun? Decisions, decisions. I'm inclined to gamble on Gil and save the dough to spend elsewhere. Although Montas would fit in nicely. They need a solid guy to slot behind Cole. I could go either way on this one.

[Kinkotheclown]

Risk / reward. Do you take the " surer" thing and go with the resume' or gamble on a young gun? Decisions, decisions. I'm inclined to gamble on Gil and save the dough to spend elsewhere. Although Montas would fit in nicely. They need a solid guy to slot behind Cole. I could go either way on this one.

Agreed. It's a tricky one. I prefer to roll with Gil but certainly wouldn't be upset if they made that move.

[Phoba Rama]

I agree. At the right price Olson would be a very good fit, although I wouldn't want to go too long. That in my mind is the rub. The price is too high. I also agree Rizzo didn't help his cause in a walk year. (FWIW I believe the Covid shortened seasoned effected all players.) The determining factor in my mind is the cost in prospects to lure Olson out of Oakland. I think we all know their modus operandi, when it comes to NY they will extract their pound of flesh and then some! Rizzo is only money as is Freeman. Is Olson that much better that he becomes a difference maker? Does he justify the cost in spects (Peraza, Gil, Vasquez) and potential salary ($12-15M) ?

Imo Rizzo's glove is far from average. His bat ...maybe. Although last season, in a down year he managed 22HR's, 123 total H's with 52 BB in 141 games. IDK, do they need more power? Clown and I have gone back and forth on this issue for quite some time. Too many swing and miss guys and not enough table setting contact bats. Imo Rizzo is that table setter, he takes his walks and gets on base. He has some power but isn't swinging from his heels on every pitch.

I'm all for getting more contact hitters if they can hit for average. I would not call Rizzo a contact hitter for average. Olson may strike out more than Rizzo, but I doubt it's by very much (don't have the numbers in front of me). Olson get more hits than Rizzo. I'd rather someone who hits a single or double than a sac fly.

Anyway, clearly Olson is more expensive prospect wise. I don't like that, but to say that Rizzo is a contact hitter is a bit misleading. Olson makes the team far better than Rizzo does IMO. Also, it was one thing when the Yankees had 4-5 30 homerun hitters in the lineup. At that point they didn't need power. Now they have two, maybe three if they can fix Gallo (which btw is going to be a lot harder to do with the lockout and not being allowed to work with players until ST). Now they do need another heavy hitter in the lineup. I'd prefer it be Freeman (get you a girl who can do both), but Olson is definitely number two given that the prospect cost is not prohibitive. That's the other disagreement I have with what you have said. I know we have heard rumors but we have no idea what Olson will actually end up costing. There's no saying whether they will have to give up too much for him or not. The only way we will ever know for sure is if a trade happens.

[spliff(TONE)]

What was the point Spliff? I quote " Olson would put up crazy power numbers at Yankee Stadium."

I know what I said. What I don't know is what you are having trouble understanding here.

My point was that Olson is a lefty bat with prodigious power and his numbers would likely benefit in no small way from playing his home games at Yankee Stadium instead of RingCentral Coliseum; could be pretty fun to watch. Not to mention, he also had the 16th best OBP in all of MLB last year.

It really ain't that deep.

[dayners81]

Tough to say. We'll find out how much standing of their ground the players do. I don't see a 162 game schedule being played though.

Agreed, At this point i think we might be lucky to get a 100 game season. It's all going to depend on how much money each side is willing to lose. Players might be missing game checks but owners will be missing money from the MLB TV deals, advertising, slowed merchandise sales as well as all the revenue from the ball parks.

Someone is going to flinch first, i have my money on the players, but maybe they union prepared players for this happening. I hope i'm very wrong but we'll see who it plays out

[dayners81]

I'm all for getting more contact hitters if they can hit for average. I would not call Rizzo a contact hitter for average. Olson may strike out more than Rizzo, but I doubt it's by very much (don't have the numbers in front of me). Olson get more hits than Rizzo. I'd rather someone who hits a single or double than a sac fly.

Anyway, clearly Olson is more expensive prospect wise. I don't like that, but to say that Rizzo is a contact hitter is a bit misleading. Olson makes the team far better than Rizzo does IMO. Also, it was one thing when the Yankees had 4-5 30 homerun hitters in the lineup. At that point they didn't need power. Now they have two, maybe three if they can fix Gallo (which btw is going to be a lot harder to do with the lockout and not being allowed to work with players until ST). Now they do need another heavy hitter in the lineup. I'd prefer it be Freeman (get you a girl who can do both), but Olson is definitely number two given that the prospect cost is not prohibitive. That's the other disagreement I have with what you have said. I know we have heard rumors but we have no idea what Olson will actually end up costing. There's no saying whether they will have to give up too much for him or not. The only way we will ever know for sure is if a trade happens.

No question Olsen is better than Rizzo, i don't think anyone would argue that. The question is Olsen that much better than Rizzo, Peraza and Gil. If we keep Peraza and Gil, barring injury, it's hard not to see them being a big part of this team this yr.

I'm just not convinced that Olsen is going to be so much better than Rizzo the next 2yrs, he's worth trading 2 guys who could have an immediate impact on the roster and key players for the next 5 plus yrs. Olsen is a great player but i don't see him being that much more valuable than Rizzo the next 2yrs that he's worth the reported asking price

I would have no problem trading Gil, Wells and Vargas for Olsen or even Torres but I would be very hesitant to trade Peraza. If you trade Peraza you almost have to get a real, long term answer at SS. On the FA market that pretty much means Correa and he certainly isn't worth the money or yrs he's looking for IMO

[dayners81]

Agreed. It's a tricky one. I prefer to roll with Gil but certainly wouldn't be upset if they made that move.

I'm going to sound like a broken record but i would rather see them sign Rodon, rather than trading Gil. If Gil is working on add a sinker, cutter and CB like has been reported that could really make him tough to hit. Like you've said before he could throw the 3 FB's the majority of the time with his SL and be extremely tough for opposing hitters. The CB and CU really would only have to be slightly better than show me pitches and he would have TORP stuff. We've all wanted some home grown arms, Gil has already be successful at the MLB level. Do we really want to trade him away now?

[drt1010]

I know what I said. What I don't know is what you are having trouble understanding here.

My point was that Olson is a lefty bat with prodigious power and his numbers would likely benefit in no small way from playing his home games at Yankee Stadium instead of RingCentral Coliseum; could be pretty fun to watch. Not to mention, he also had the 16th best OBP in all of MLB last year.

It really ain't that deep.

No it ain't that deep. As I said at the outset, in my original reply to you : Does this team, as currently constructed, need more power? You are correct, it ain't that deep. Olson would certainly benefit from the Stadium dimensions. Yankees would benefit from a Lefty with some power. BUT....as I suggested earlier, is that really what they need as currently constructed? To repeat for clarity, ..... I love the power guys, no replacing a three run blast. However this team has plenty of power.

ps. Worth noting, previous prodigious lefties have had their problems with the short porch, they tend to fall in love. It gets in their head and has this mysterious way of altering their swing and psyche.

[dayners81]

We have about 120 hrs just between Judge, Gallo and Stanton. DJ, Torres Hicks and Sanchez all have 20 plus hr power. I dont think u need another 35 plus hr guy if he comes with high ks, low avg and another station to station player.

I want to see Cabrera and Peraza in the lineup with their.speed, contact, plus defense and they have power also.

Then first tool i want in a 1st baseman is an elite glove. I realize your not going to get alot of athleticism at first but that doesn't mean we have to add another slow, plodding slugger.

Olsen would be amazing but the rumored asking price is to high compared to what we could get from simply resigned Rizzo, keeping Peraza and Gil and using the spec capital to improve in other areas, IMO

[drt1010]

We have about 120 hrs just between Judge, Gallo and Stanton. DJ, Torres Hicks and Sanchez all have 20 plus hr power. I dont think u need another 35 plus hr guy if he comes with high ks, low avg and another station to station player.

I want to see Cabrera and Peraza in the lineup with their.speed, contact, plus defense and they have power also.

Then first tool i want in a 1st baseman is an elite glove. I realize your not going to get alot of athleticism at first but that doesn't mean we have to add another slow, plodding slugger.

Olsen would be amazing but the rumored asking price is to high compared to what we could get from simply resigned Rizzo, keeping Peraza and Gil and using the spec capital to improve in other areas, IMO

That was my point from the outset. Freeman may be the best bat in the bunch, but he's looking for a pay day and I'm not certain Hal deems that a high enough priority to justify the cost. Imo SS is a priority, rotation help is a priority, ( Rodon, Ray, Montas?) getting Judge extended, Back end BP help and 1B decision.

[metswon69]

Voit has 30 homer potential too. Yeah I get he's an injury concern but he did lead the majors in home runs in the abbreviated 2020 season. Dude has legit power. If I'm the Yankees, I'm a lot more focused on Correa than I am Olson. Its a lot harder to find legitimate pop at SS or eventually 3rd base than it is to find at 1st base.

Either that or sign Freeman and get him the hell away from the NL East lol.

[spliff(TONE)]

No it ain't that deep. As I said at the outset, in my original reply to you : Does this team, as currently constructed, need more power? You are correct, it ain't that deep. Olson would certainly benefit from the Stadium dimensions. Yankees would benefit from a Lefty with some power. BUT....as I suggested earlier, is that really what they need as currently constructed? To repeat for clarity, ..... I love the power guys, no replacing a three run blast. However this team has plenty of power.

ps. Worth noting, previous prodigious lefties have had their problems with the short porch, they tend to fall in love. It gets in their head and has this mysterious way of altering their swing and psyche.

Yes, I both heard and answered you. No need to repeat yourself (numerous times in this one post, in fact).

The Yankees may not be hurting for more power but all three of the 1B options you guys are discussing are power hitters; it kinda comes with the territory. It's not like you're gonna plug a Chone Figgins or Kenny Lofton type in at that position. The Yanks could certainly just stick with one of their in-house options like Voit or LeMahieu at 1B, saving the money and prospects for a position more in need of an upgrade. If that's what you're angling at, I have no qualms with the approach.

Between the three options you guys are discussing though, I'd say:

-Rizzo is the least likely to be a big difference maker but will also require the smallest investment of resources. At something like 2/$30MM, he could make some sense though

-Freeman would likely require $200MM+ to pry away from the Braves, yet also be the best bet for a productive '22

-Olson would require dipping heavily in to the farm system and ~$30MM over the next two seasons leading up to his free agency. He's also the youngest and coming off the most productive season of the three

[Phoba Rama]

No question Olsen is better than Rizzo, i don't think anyone would argue that. The question is Olsen that much better than Rizzo, Peraza and Gil. If we keep Peraza and Gil, barring injury, it's hard not to see them being a big part of this team this yr.

I'm just not convinced that Olsen is going to be so much better than Rizzo the next 2yrs, he's worth trading 2 guys who could have an immediate impact on the roster and key players for the next 5 plus yrs. Olsen is a great player but i don't see him being that much more valuable than Rizzo the next 2yrs that he's worth the reported asking price

I would have no problem trading Gil, Wells and Vargas for Olsen or even Torres but I would be very hesitant to trade Peraza. If you trade Peraza you almost have to get a real, long term answer at SS. On the FA market that pretty much means Correa and he certainly isn't worth the money or yrs he's looking for IMO

I haven't seen convincing evidence that getting Olson would require trading Peraza. It's all rumors. If Peraza must be included, I would imagine the rest of the prospect load would be on the lighter side.

If we ever find out, I guess we can analyze the trade st thatbpoint. In the meantime, safe to say Rizzo is the 3rd best option unless Olson's cost truly turns out to be prohibitive.

[dayners81]

Voit has 30 homer potential too. Yeah I get he's an injury concern but he did lead the majors in home runs in the abbreviated 2020 season. Dude has legit power. If I'm the Yankees, I'm a lot more focused on Correa than I am Olson. Its a lot harder to find legitimate pop at SS or eventually 3rd base than it is to find at 1st base.

Either that or sign Freeman and get him the hell away from the NL East lol.

Your right about Voits power but he's not a 1st baseman, he;s a DH IMO. He's awful defensively and is an injury risk any time he moves faster than a jog around the bases. He'll make some national league team very happy assuming the get the DH.

I want nothing to due with Correa at his asking price, he's a defensive first SS. Thats great but you don't give that guy a Lindor type contract. I'm not saying he's not a good player but he isn't a top 10 player and shouldn't get payed like one

Also when your 1,2 & 5 specs are SS's that you've invested heavily in the last couple yrs, blocking that position for the next 10yrs makes no sense to me..

[EAGLES3658]

I don't think Olson takes nearly as much as people think. The A's are cheap and ultimately will settle for a subpar package for him just to avoid paying him unless there is a bidding war. 1B typically don't go for as much as you'd think.