Off Season Thread aka The Party is over

[drt1010]

Doc, I am really curious to see what goes down. I genuinely think DJ will age very, very well at first. I could see similar to Paul Molitor numbers and a very good glove. They have him signed long term. Is DJ the best option at first? He very well could be.
The biggest issue is that they want a lefty there. That brings in the question of Torres. If you moved Torres and got a lefty bat to play second, (ahem, Marte or the like?) that could be a legit fix.
As much as I think Torres could have a bounce back year, he kind of seems like the odd man out the we discuss the potential of specs. Volpe may likely be at 2b. Hell, Preaza may be there if Arias develops as fast as expected.
I think Torres is a really good guy to put out there. Tremendous upside and a long time of control. At least now he has that upside. If he has a bad year? He will have very little value. I can't help but think of the accusations against him in his best year. Maybe he was getting signals? Who knows. Is it just coincidence that his best year, like Correa's came in years they were both accused of using electronic assistance?

Honestly, the entire infield is up for grabs. We talk about SS but Torres wasn't a great 2b. Good, not great. IF I am the Cashman, (well we all know the Yankees would have won another 5 WS but...)
I am entertaining any offer for any IF position that doesn't require too high a price in salary or specs.
The IF is actually all stop gaps right now.

DJ is signed for longer than any IF player on the team. He's not going anywhere. If you give him first and build the rest of the IF around that, I don't think it would be a bad thing.

Good point regarding Torres. I guess I have a bit more faith and confidence in him than most. DJ is a 2B, a 3X all star , three time GG and defensive player of the year at the position. I would be willing to move Torres and have confidence in DJ's seamless transition. You also make a good point regarding the LHed bat. Imo another very good reason to resign Rizzo, in addition to his platinum glove, 4 x GG and silver slugger award. Gallo is also a lefty.

Gio was adequate at 3B, Chapman is outstanding. Oakland appears to be in the midst of their annual winter clearance sale. Imo Olson, Chapman, Montas, Bassit, or Manaea could be had for the right price. That group could fill several holes in the Yankees IF and rotation. The cost would be very high and probably decimate the farm, BUT it would, imo put the Yankees in the right place to compete for another WS. You may have to take Andrus as a "favor" to get him off their books and grease the wheels.

[Kinkotheclown]

Good point regarding Torres. I guess I have a bit more faith and confidence in him than most. DJ is a 2B, a 3X all star , three time GG and defensive player of the year at the position. I would be willing to move Torres and have confidence in DJ's seamless transition. You also make a good point regarding the LHed bat. Imo another very good reason to resign Rizzo, in addition to his platinum glove, 4 x GG and silver slugger award. Gallo is also a lefty.

Gio was adequate at 3B, Chapman is outstanding. Oakland appears to be in the midst of their annual winter clearance sale. Imo Olson, Chapman, Montas, Bassit, or Manaea could be had for the right price. That group could fill several holes in the Yankees IF and rotation. The cost would be very high and probably decimate the farm, BUT it would, imo put the Yankees in the right place to compete for another WS. You may have to take Andrus as a "favor" to get him off their books and grease the wheels.

If they could find another OF, I would be all in for Gallo at first. He's played there before and would likely be good.
DJ's best spot is second but I think as he ages, 1rst may be a better spot for him. Especially if they do actually get more athletic.

Doc, I think Torres will be good. That comment wasn't about a lack of faith but more opportunity

This team has a ton of flexibility if they choose.
Guys who left play multiple positions
DJ
Gallo
Gio
Torres
Cabrera

The entire IF and one OF.
They could significantly upgrade without doing a ton if they get the right pieces.

[dayners81]

Thanks for posting.
The writer gives a suggestion and then basically says why it wouldn't be good. I appreciate that. Shows what people say and why it would be good or bad.
(The writer mis-numbered his list. There are two #3s. )

I will add onto what they wrote.



1-Chapman- Why move a GG 3b to SS? Why add another high power, low contact, righty bat?
Not much to add aside from the "get more athletic" comment and he doesn't fit that bill

2-Falefa- Low defensive metrics and only a slight upgrade over Torres. Why trade for that?
Give up more specs for a guy who may or not be better than Gio?

3-Other trades- Hoerner- No bat, no wheels, another righty, who Chicago would be smart to hold? Or Rosario who was bad defensively? Nicky Lopez? The most interesting but with his offensive uncertainty and a guy on the roster already who projects to hit what he is projected to hit, why?
Machado??? Wait, "with the hope he opts out after the second year". Lol.

Lopez is the only guy on that list that is interesting. If he's legit, he could be a really nice player. Young, can run, good D, lefty contact bat and a decent eye but isn't that what Cabrera is supposed to be?
If you could get Lopez for a trade with some mid level guys? Sure.Might be a solid move.
The suggestion of Machado alone, is ludicrous. Add to that the "hope he opts out after 2 years" is laughable. So a 31 year old with a 30 mil contract over the next 6 years, is going to opt out? Maybe...
More likely not.

4- Peraza or Cabrera- They are unknowns.
The Yankees are the Yankees and unknowns are hard to comprehend.

Rolling with them will require patience, trust and watching bad growing pains


5-Other signings, writer lists a bunch of guys who would actually make the roster worse.

The list presented, make the Yankees worse.

They may sign Correa or Story. Who knows but with the options presented above, honestly, aside from Lopez for a very reasonable deal, go with what you have. Nothing suggested improves the team remotely enough to make the investment.
Gio showed he is solid at the spot. Cabrera can play the spot. Perzaza is ready defensively but if he needs a season or half season in AAA? Go with the above guys.

1) Chapman makes no sense
2) pass
3) hard pass. I always have really wanted Machado but he's not a SS anymore. If he could play SS like he used to, maybe but he hasn;t played that position since 2018 full time
4) are those 2 actually any worse options than all the other non Correa/ Story options. I'd rather go through some growing pains than just watching poor/mediocre player. If you get IKF or Simmons, you are getting what you get, if you role with Peraza/ Cabrera at least you have a solid chance they improve with reps.

Honestly right now, i roll with one of those kids or if they can't win the spot in ST, Gio for a couple months isn't the worst option.

They should have had a should have signed Seager part to this. That was the answer they should have gone with IMO

[dayners81]

If they could find another OF, I would be all in for Gallo at first. He's played there before and would likely be good.
DJ's best spot is second but I think as he ages, 1rst may be a better spot for him. Especially if they do actually get more athletic.

Doc, I think Torres will be good. That comment wasn't about a lack of faith but more opportunity

This team has a ton of flexibility if they choose.
Guys who left play multiple positions
DJ
Gallo
Gio
Torres
Cabrera

The entire IF and one OF.
They could significantly upgrade without doing a ton if they get the right pieces.

The reason I have no issue with DJ at 3rd is because he has said that is his best and more comfortable position. They reason he wasn;t as good there as he might have been last yr was because he was playing hurt.

We has been an all world 2nd baseman but that was much earlier in his career. The middle infield is tough, especially for a guy DJ's size and that he's not exactly your most athletic player at this point in his career. If he's healthy i think he handles 3rd just fine.

I also have no issue with him at first but we need another LHed bat in the lineup, if not 2. 1st base is the easiest place to add another LH bat, but if their is another solution that we don't have to trade Peraza or Cabrera I'd be very interested.

[drt1010]

The reason I have no issue with DJ at 3rd is because he has said that is his best and more comfortable position. They reason he wasn;t as good there as he might have been last yr was because he was playing hurt.

We has been an all world 2nd baseman but that was much earlier in his career. The middle infield is tough, especially for a guy DJ's size and that he's not exactly your most athletic player at this point in his career. If he's healthy i think he handles 3rd just fine.

I also have no issue with him at first but we need another LHed bat in the lineup, if not 2. 1st base is the easiest place to add another LH bat, but if their is another solution that we don't have to trade Peraza or Cabrera I'd be very interested.

Day, Isn't 3B the most difficult position following C and SS? It requires strength, quickness and agility. DJ is an exceptional player, I have no doubt he could handle the position. However as he ages do you want him at the "hot" corner? DJ has spent his entire career at 2B, he's played a total of 140 games at 3B. Imo DJ could play anywhere on the IF if needed, I am not convinced at this stage of his career 3B would be an easier outing than 2B.

[Phoba Rama]

Day, Isn't 3B the most difficult position following C and SS? It requires strength, quickness and agility. DJ is an exceptional player, I have no doubt he could handle the position. However as he ages do you want him at the "hot" corner? DJ has spent his entire career at 2B, he's played a total of 140 games at 3B. Imo DJ could play anywhere on the IF if needed, I am not convinced at this stage of his career 3B would be an easier outing than 2B.

Third base requires three skills. 1. Quickness (not to be confused with speed, which us not needed. 2. Strong arm. 3. Good hand eye coordination.

To be a good CF, you need quickness, speed, strong arm, good routes, personally, I think CF is harder, and definitely requires more athleticism. I think it's harder to find a good CF than it is a 3B.

I would also argue that 2b, while not harder than 3b, is also not necessarily easier either. It requires a different set of skills to be good. Less arm. More athleticism.

Catcher is also a different animal. I think it's 100% harder than 3b and I don't think there's any argument to be made on the other side of that.

So SS, CF, C, and maybe 2B are ahead of 3B in difficulty... I also feel DJ can fill the position perfectly.

[dayners81]

Day, Isn't 3B the most difficult position following C and SS? It requires strength, quickness and agility. DJ is an exceptional player, I have no doubt he could handle the position. However as he ages do you want him at the "hot" corner? DJ has spent his entire career at 2B, he's played a total of 140 games at 3B. Imo DJ could play anywhere on the IF if needed, I am not convinced at this stage of his career 3B would be an easier outing than 2B.

Fair point. I don't think 3B is the 3rd toughest position, IMO i would have CF for sure and probably 2nd base ahead of 3rd IMO.

3rd, you really don't have as much ground to cover in both directions, you don't have to worry about turning the double play or playing with the shift as much. If they are going to give Torres a real chance to succeed, he needs to be at 2nd. DJ has said he's is most comfortable at 3rd. For next yr IMO that our best alignment next yr.

If they keep both Volpe and Peraza, Volpe is going to end up at 3rd so it wouldn't be a long term change for DJ. IMO he probably goes back to being the super utility guy he was originally signed to be.

If they trade Torres, than DJ absolutely goes back to 2nd but imo.

[drt1010]

Phoba, Day....Fair assessment. Points taken. CF is difficult and requires athleticism, particularly speed. However 3B the ball gets on you very quickly, reaction time is crucial, reflexes, quickness and agility are all required. When considering 60-70% of hitters bat RHed that's an awful lot of hot smashes in the direction of 3B. It's called the hot corner for good reason. Do we want our soon to be 34 yr old player with an ailing back playing there long term?

As mentioned I put SS and C ahead of 3B in that order. SS sees a little more action than 3B. However third probably sees a higher number of vicious "chances" and the most dangerous ones. But short must cover more ground, rotate to cover both second and third routinely, have a better arm, have better hands, and have better feet. The difference is not extreme in any instance, but there is a difference.

Also consider, 3B make the longest infield throw to nail a runner at first base, also responsible for bunts down the third baseline. Essentials reaction time, great reflexes, monster arm.

You know it's time for REAL BB when we are debating **** like this! I read today the sides are getting closer and the union has softened their stance on a few key issues, service time , Pre arb bonus pool, and some serious talk about threshold numbers. Maybe we see some movement.

[YankeeFanAlways]

I think Peraza only gets Olsen. Realistically Peraza and 1 of our better pitching specs is fair for Olsen considering his age, talent, defensive ability i just don't think i would give up Peraza, but that i strictly my opinion.

To get one of their pitchers i think it cost Gil plus to the package, especially if we want Montas who has 2yrs of control left

I meant ADDING Peraza to a potential Olsen deal already proposed for other players. I didn't mean Olsen and a SP for Peraza.

[dayners81]

The proposal that was put out was Peraza, Gil and either Vasquez or Way for Olsen and 1 of their pitchers. I believe it was Montas. If they make a deal for Olsen or Olsen and a pitcher IMO Peraza will have to be part of either deal

[dayners81]

Phoba, Day....Fair assessment. Points taken. CF is difficult and requires athleticism, particularly speed. However 3B the ball gets on you very quickly, reaction time is crucial, reflexes, quickness and agility are all required. When considering 60-70% of hitters bat RHed that's an awful lot of hot smashes in the direction of 3B. It's called the hot corner for good reason. Do we want our soon to be 34 yr old player with an ailing back playing there long term?

As mentioned I put SS and C ahead of 3B in that order. SS sees a little more action than 3B. However third probably sees a higher number of vicious "chances" and the most dangerous ones. But short must cover more ground, rotate to cover both second and third routinely, have a better arm, have better hands, and have better feet. The difference is not extreme in any instance, but there is a difference.

Also consider, 3B make the longest infield throw to nail a runner at first base, also responsible for bunts down the third baseline. Essentials reaction time, great reflexes, monster arm.

You know it's time for REAL BB when we are debating **** like this! I read today the sides are getting closer and the union has softened their stance on a few key issues, service time , Pre arb bonus pool, and some serious talk about threshold numbers. Maybe we see some movement.

I guess the real question is where does Torres play if u put DJ back at 2nd? I think 3rd is the most likely position for DJ next yr if they are going to keep Torres.

I don't think DJ will have to stick at 3rd long term, i think he goes back to a utility roll.

[drt1010]

I guess the real question is where does Torres play if u put DJ back at 2nd? I think 3rd is the most likely position for DJ next yr if they are going to keep Torres.

I don't think DJ will have to stick at 3rd long term, i think he goes back to a utility roll.

The above was predicated on Clown's assumption that Torres is gone.

[dayners81]

The above was predicated on Clown's assumption that Torres is gone.

Lol, My bad. Didn't realize that part. I knew there was some kind of disconnect

[Webslinger]

Doc, I am really curious to see what goes down. I genuinely think DJ will age very, very well at first. I could see similar to Paul Molitor numbers and a very good glove. They have him signed long term. Is DJ the best option at first? He very well could be.
The biggest issue is that they want a lefty there. That brings in the question of Torres. If you moved Torres and got a lefty bat to play second, (ahem, Marte or the like?) that could be a legit fix.
As much as I think Torres could have a bounce back year, he kind of seems like the odd man out the we discuss the potential of specs. Volpe may likely be at 2b. Hell, Preaza may be there if Arias develops as fast as expected.
I think Torres is a really good guy to put out there. Tremendous upside and a long time of control. At least now he has that upside. If he has a bad year? He will have very little value. I can't help but think of the accusations against him in his best year. Maybe he was getting signals? Who knows. Is it just coincidence that his best year, like Correa's came in years they were both accused of using electronic assistance?

Honestly, the entire infield is up for grabs. We talk about SS but Torres wasn't a great 2b. Good, not great. IF I am the Cashman, (well we all know the Yankees would have won another 5 WS but...)
I am entertaining any offer for any IF position that doesn't require too high a price in salary or specs.
The IF is actually all stop gaps right now.

DJ is signed for longer than any IF player on the team. He's not going anywhere. If you give him first and build the rest of the IF around that, I don't think it would be a bad thing.

DJ has a 5 year 75 million dollar contract with no clauses preventing the yankees from trading him. He can most certainly go somewhere. Last year DJ's wRC+ was 100 and it was only that high because his BB% was an uncharacteristic 10.8%, which is a career high. It's usually 6-7%. If his BB% returns back to his usual mean and he hits .260s again, he will be an absolute disaster. The yankees really need to shop both him and Torres. There's no bounceback in their future.

[Kinkotheclown]

DJ has a 5 year 75 million dollar contract with no clauses preventing the yankees from trading him. He can most certainly go somewhere. Last year DJ's wRC+ was 100 and it was only that high because his BB% was an uncharacteristic 10.8%, which is a career high. It's usually 6-7%. If his BB% returns back to his usual mean and he hits .260s again, he will be an absolute disaster. The yankees really need to shop both him and Torres. There's no bounceback in their future.

Saying that DJ isn't going anywhere is because I think it will be way more difficult to move DJ.

Can he be moved? Yes.

If he doesn't get back to form, how many teams will be interested in trading for him?

If he does get back to form, why trade him?

I think he can be an excellent 1B if they lock him into that spot. I think he's a good hitter and will be better this year.

I have zero issue if they move him but I think Torres is a far easier sell and will net much more at this point.