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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    I 100% DO NOT blame Wilson
    After 10 years of putrid (not just bad) play, I'm not going to sit here and lay any of this on a rookie QB three games into his career. Period.

    I can't believe anyone would even try to put 1% on Wilson after watching us run an excellent young QB out of town for last three years. The bloodsport of the typical Jets fan apparently.

    Also, what corner am I painting myself into? The Jets can't seem to find a GM or coaches who do anything but suck corner? You all should be in this corner with me.
    I think you misunderstood. No one is blaming Wilson for the Jets current situation.
    I blame previous FOs, coaches and the owners.
    I don't blame the current group for anything at this point. It's too early to tell. If this team regresses this year? Then it's all on the coaches and GM.

    In no way, is the current state of this team Wilson's fault. No one can blame him for that.
    I have blamed Wilson for poor play and contributing to losses because of his mistakes. The state of the team has zero to do with him. He is a victim of that state. However, he is responsible for his play and his choices. Those choices and that play are contributing factors to the losses. There are many factors, coaching, drops, the Ol... but he is factor. Does he get a pass? Sure. He's 3 games in but watch him play. He hasn't looked good. That's reality.
    I don't think it's ok that he's thrown 7 ints in 3 games. He had a really nice second half vs the Panthers.


    The quote below sums it up.
    "Wilson has looked far from prepared for the highest level of competition by throwing seven picks as compared to just two touchdowns three games into his career"

    That is reality. He has not looked good. If you suggest that's ok? Ok. I disagree. I want everyone to play well. He is the QB. He gets the spotlight. His name is the one we speak.

    Does it mean he won't become a great QB? Not at all. It's his first 3 games.
    I hope the kid absolutely kills it. But my concerns and I am not alone, regarding his competition level in college and his record vs quality programs, are still there. I hope by the season's end and into next year, he has an innate grasp of the playbook and it becomes second nature, as he said and we see the QB many of you think we got and I certainly hope we did



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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamonster View Post
    I'm 100% with you. I think Wilson is going to be awesome. More importantly, I think we all should temper the blame talk and just wait to see how our young players and coaching staff progress throughout the season. That being said, we all deserve and are entitled to seeing competent, competitive football, sooner rather than later.
    100% with the bolded.

    I also hope Wilson is awesome. I had my concerns before and after they drafted him and I still have them but I want the kid to succeed.

    In no way do I blame him or does anyone, for the Jets losing or being a crappy team right now. They are a super young team with super young coaches and they are 3 games in. to their first season as a unit.

    If Wilson has 35-40 ints and 15 TDs at the years end, will I be concerned? No. This is the teething process. It will hurt.
    If he does that this year and ends up with the same numbers next year, will I be concerned? Yes.

    If the Jets go 0-16 this year but are competitive and playing good football by the end of the season, will I consider that a success? Yes
    If that happens next season? Nope


    This team has been running this offense for 3 months. Give them a year and 3 months. This is not a throw away season. it's a huge season. To me, this season is as big as a playoff season because it can set the foundation for many years if done with care. That includes the entire organization from top to bottom, players, staff, coaches, FO...

    I am actually really excited about this year. I genuinely think we will start to see some better football after the first 5-6 games and then they will suck again and then end with a nice stretch.
    2 steps forward 1 step back. As long as you do that, you are progressing



    Ignorance is bliss

  3. #63
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    Zach Wilson has thrown 7 interceptions in 3 games, but will improve. Until then, can some of the receivers please put stickum on your hands so you can catch the football when given the opportunity. There are way too many dropped passes. Also, 15 sacks in 3 games is by far a record setting pace, since there has only been something like 3 teams in NFL history that have been sacked 50 or more times. 15 sacks in 3 games translates to 85 sacks in 17 games. WTF. Some people feel the OL is doing a good job. If so, can the OC scheme something different or have the RB help out with the blocking. We know the play calling is deficient, when we are last in the NFL in RPOs and that's got to change.

  4. #64
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    Who is misunderstanding who

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I think you misunderstood. No one is blaming Wilson for the Jets current situation.
    I blame previous FOs, coaches and the owners.
    I don't blame the current group for anything at this point. It's too early to tell. If this team regresses this year? Then it's all on the coaches and GM.

    In no way, is the current state of this team Wilson's fault. No one can blame him for that.
    I have blamed Wilson for poor play and contributing to losses because of his mistakes. The state of the team has zero to do with him. He is a victim of that state. However, he is responsible for his play and his choices. Those choices and that play are contributing factors to the losses. There are many factors, coaching, drops, the Ol... but he is factor. Does he get a pass? Sure. He's 3 games in but watch him play. He hasn't looked good. That's reality.
    I don't think it's ok that he's thrown 7 ints in 3 games. He had a really nice second half vs the Panthers.


    The quote below sums it up.
    "Wilson has looked far from prepared for the highest level of competition by throwing seven picks as compared to just two touchdowns three games into his career"

    That is reality. He has not looked good. If you suggest that's ok? Ok. I disagree. I want everyone to play well. He is the QB. He gets the spotlight. His name is the one we speak.

    Does it mean he won't become a great QB? Not at all. It's his first 3 games.
    I hope the kid absolutely kills it. But my concerns and I am not alone, regarding his competition level in college and his record vs quality programs, are still there. I hope by the season's end and into next year, he has an innate grasp of the playbook and it becomes second nature, as he said and we see the QB many of you think we got and I certainly hope we did
    Maybe I'm not making myself clear.

    There is absolutely no reason to be mentioning or dwelling on Wilson's mistakes at this point.
    He's a rookie. This is what rookies do.
    It's like saying human beings breath. Yes they do.
    The question is - what's the agenda behind bringing up the obvious, continually?

    Especially with this team, everywhere you look there are monumental issues, yet Jets fans mainly want to focus on the rookie QB. It's absurd. Just look at all of the threads and conversations. Wilson. Wilson, Wilson .... when it should be anything but Wilson, Wilson, Wilson

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    Maybe I'm not making myself clear.

    There is absolutely no reason to be mentioning or dwelling on Wilson's mistakes at this point.
    He's a rookie. This is what rookies do.
    It's like saying human beings breath. Yes they do.
    The question is - what's the agenda behind bringing up the obvious, continually?

    Especially with this team, everywhere you look there are monumental issues, yet Jets fans mainly want to focus on the rookie QB. It's absurd. Just look at all of the threads and conversations. Wilson. Wilson, Wilson .... when it should be anything but Wilson, Wilson, Wilson
    He's the #2 overall pick on a QB heavy draft. Criticism is coming with his sub par play even if it isn't "fair". He has not played well and that's an understatement. He deserves some blame along with every single other aspect of the team from management on down. It's really bad and he's part of why it's really bad.

    Also saw an interesting stat, Gardner Minshew only threw 6 INTs his rookie year, Lawrence already has 7. These guys have all looked completely lost. None of them have really ever played on a team that wasn't the most talented on the field except for maybe a a CFB playoff game.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    He's the #2 overall pick on a QB heavy draft. Criticism is coming with his sub par play even if it isn't "fair". He has not played well and that's an understatement. He deserves some blame along with every single other aspect of the team from management on down. It's really bad and he's part of why it's really bad.

    Also saw an interesting stat, Gardner Minshew only threw 6 INTs his rookie year, Lawrence already has 7. These guys have all looked completely lost. None of them have really ever played on a team that wasn't the most talented on the field except for maybe a a CFB playoff game.
    Gardner Minshew is a check down machine. Hard to throw interceptions when you have a below average arm and they are asking you to get rid of the ball quickly. Maybe the Jets should be doing something similar with Wilson. Not to that extent but more so just to get him to have more positive plays.

    There's a reason why even with those numbers Minshew can't find a starting job in the NFL because teams know he's extremely limited in the pocket. Solid backup though.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    Maybe I'm not making myself clear.

    There is absolutely no reason to be mentioning or dwelling on Wilson's mistakes at this point.
    He's a rookie. This is what rookies do.
    It's like saying human beings breath. Yes they do.
    The question is - what's the agenda behind bringing up the obvious, continually?

    Especially with this team, everywhere you look there are monumental issues, yet Jets fans mainly want to focus on the rookie QB. It's absurd. Just look at all of the threads and conversations. Wilson. Wilson, Wilson .... when it should be anything but Wilson, Wilson, Wilson
    I have made that statement continually.

    Maybe people want the number 2 pick to perform better? If people get pissed at his play? Oh well. They are allowed.
    If they think he's the reason they lose? That's a long, long stretch.

    The agenda is the exact same as yours. To make it clear how they feel



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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    He's the #2 overall pick on a QB heavy draft. Criticism is coming with his sub par play even if it isn't "fair". He has not played well and that's an understatement. He deserves some blame along with every single other aspect of the team from management on down. It's really bad and he's part of why it's really bad.

    Also saw an interesting stat, Gardner Minshew only threw 6 INTs his rookie year, Lawrence already has 7. These guys have all looked completely lost. None of them have really ever played on a team that wasn't the most talented on the field except for maybe a a CFB playoff game.
    It is certainly an tough start for all of the rookie QBs



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  9. #69
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    https://www.deseret.com/2021/9/29/22...yu-quarterback

    The average time Wilson has had to either get a pass off or for the pocket to collapse is 1.7 seconds, per Gang Green Nation’s David Wyatt-Hupton.

    That doesn’t completely absolve the rookie quarterback, though. Wilson leads the NFL in sacks that took more than 4.5 seconds from snap to tackle with eight, according to Next Gen Stats. That is one ahead of fellow rookie Justin Fields of Chicago. Fields’ seven such sacks, though, come on just 46 dropbacks, while Wilson’s eight sacks that took 4.5 seconds or more came on 120 dropbacks.

    Noting that Wilson is the lone QB to play a snap for the team this year, the Jets are getting pressured 33.6% of the times per dropback, worst in the league and more than 2% worse than the next two worst teams — Denver and Indianapolis.

    Wilson’s adjusted completion percentage, which takes into account drops and other such things, is 70.4%, according to The Athletic’s Connor Hughes.

    The Jets tie for fourth-worst in the NFL in dropped passes (8), per Pro Football Reference. New York’s drop percentage — which accounts for number of drops against pass attempts excluding spikes and throwaways — is 7.8%, also tied for fourth worst.
    Maybe LaFleur should be helping this kid get the ball out quicker. The O-line and WR core are not good either.

  10. #70
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    Missing my Point Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    He's the #2 overall pick on a QB heavy draft. Criticism is coming with his sub par play even if it isn't "fair". He has not played well and that's an understatement. He deserves some blame along with every single other aspect of the team from management on down. It's really bad and he's part of why it's really bad.

    Also saw an interesting stat, Gardner Minshew only threw 6 INTs his rookie year, Lawrence already has 7. These guys have all looked completely lost. None of them have really ever played on a team that wasn't the most talented on the field except for maybe a a CFB playoff game.
    ????

    The Jets are 0-3 and have the worst stats, by far, of any team in football.
    And all Jets fans seem to talk about is Wilson and "blame".
    And this after we just ran an excellent young QB out of town wasting an incredible amount of talent capital in the process, both in acquiring him originally and then letting him go for next to nothing on the back end. And now, Jets fans are obsessed with doing it all over again. Go figure.

    Meanwhile the Jets organization is a flaming ball of .... And it aini't Gase's fault anymore 'cuz he ain't here. So, I guess, Wilson gets the "blame". A guy 3 games into his career - for this ball of .... we are witnessing.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    ????

    The Jets are 0-3 and have the worst stats, by far, of any team in football.
    And all Jets fans seem to talk about is Wilson and "blame".
    And this after we just ran an excellent young QB out of town wasting an incredible amount of talent capital in the process, both in acquiring him originally and then letting him go for next to nothing on the back end. And now, Jets fans are obsessed with doing it all over again. Go figure.

    Meanwhile the Jets organization is a flaming ball of .... And it aini't Gase's fault anymore 'cuz he ain't here. So, I guess, Wilson gets the "blame". A guy 3 games into his career - for this ball of .... we are witnessing.
    I think a second was a good deal for Sam considering what he'd done but as I believe we agreed, the draft capitol they could have had by keeping him and trading the second pick? That could have meant significant upgrades.

    You are the only one using blame and Wilson together. Saying someone, anyone played poorly isn't blame If there is someone who said it's player X's fault the jets lost? Ok.
    But saying, Player X hasn't been plying well is different.

    This is why I hope ZW would get off to a good start. The media just gets hot and it's tough enough for any rookie without having to contend with the talk shows, papers, social media... freaking out on them
    He just needs a good, settle down, game. 15-25, 250, 2 tds 1 int type of game and it will calm down.



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  12. #72
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    Just because some of you don't want to "blame" ZW, doesn't mean he isn't deserving of criticism for the way he's played so far.

    Yes! A % of the Jets problems is directly on ZW's shoulders.
    Dispute that if you will, but if he was a 10yr veteran playing like this, none of you would defend him.

    He's a rookie, these are growing pains, the only thing that matters is if he will get better, or is this who he is.
    Let's hope for the former.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    Just because some of you don't want to "blame" ZW, doesn't mean he isn't deserving of criticism for the way he's played so far.

    Yes! A % of the Jets problems is directly on ZW's shoulders.
    Dispute that if you will, but if he was a 10yr veteran playing like this, none of you would defend him.

    He's a rookie, these are growing pains, the only thing that matters is if he will get better, or is this who he is.
    Let's hope for the former.
    That is being generous. I give him 2.5 years.



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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    That is being generous. I give him 2.5 years.
    Well year 1 is already trending not too much in his favor. Yeah there are 14 games to go but I don't see how this offense gets significantly better this season. Even if it does, what is significantly better? 14 points a game as opposed to 6?

    I just hope the team builds around him. If he falls flat after that then yeah its just another Jets drafted QB who didn't pan out. I'm aware its very early though. My concern is not as much him but what's around him and how the Jets handled Darnold.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well year 1 is already trending not too much in his favor. Yeah there are 14 games to go but I don't see how this offense gets significantly better this season. Even if it does, what is significantly better? 14 points a game as opposed to 6?

    I just hope the team builds around him. If he falls flat after that then yeah its just another Jets drafted QB who didn't pan out. I'm aware its very early though. My concern is not as much him but what's around him and how the Jets handled Darnold.
    My feeling is people jumping on the other side of the coin and not giving the players drafted time. Right now the line stinks but everyone loved Becton, Tucker and then the Moses signing. Those are 3 big OL additions. Davis, Moore and Cole were off season acquisitions that were applauded.
    How much impact would Lawson have had?

    Like having patience with a rookie QB, fans need to have patience with other aspects. Jets have a ton of capitol in the next draft. They have 14 picks. 8 in the first 4 rounds, 4 in the first 2.
    I suspect this team looks very different after that draft but they will still be babies.
    I really don't think we will see what this staff has done till the middle of the 23 season.
    That's what a rebuild is. It's a 2-4 year process.

    I expect to see this team become a tighter unit as the season progresses. All we can ask for is for that and better play as the year moves forward.



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