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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    I find ii absurd to blame Wilson in any way for what's happening

    These three miserable games have taught us nothing about how good he will become

    If the past three years have taught us nothing else, they have taught us that an awful, talentless team run by the clueless tells you nothing about the talent of the QB trying to function in it

    Darnold is tearing it up in Carolina after looking horrific in New York for three years.
    We suspected Darnold might be good, but you just couldn't't tell in this environment.

    It's hard to believe anyone would be trying to diss on Wilson after what we've just been thru
    Really? Is Wilson staring down WRs? Is he taking too much time? Is trying to fit the ball into predictable windows? Is he making bad choices?

    Are those rookie mistakes? Yes. Are these games his fault? No. Did drops hurt him? Yes. Does the line need to protect him better? Yes. Has the play calling been questionable? Yes.

    But you don't think that looking at his play and considering the talent he faced in college to be a rational thought? I do.

    Is it the end result and does it mean he won't be successful? Nope. Does it mean he will have nasty growing pains? Yep.

    This is on every aspect of the Jets. However, it's a rebuild. What did or do people expect? The youngest team in the league with people literally being first timers in HC, OC, DC, QB.

    They are ugly. And they will be.


    You want to blame the coaches? For what? Dealing with a young team? I didn't like the play calling but I don't blame a coach for guys dropping balls or a QB trying to fit it into windows he could in college but can't in the NFL.

    This team is not good. Just like Wilson is not good. You want to argue that? Feel free.
    55% 2 tds,, 7 Ints, 628 yards. 51% rating. Tell me what about that is good? Has he shown some flashes? Absolutely But he's played like he's out of his league. That's just what it is. The entire team has played like that and the coaches have coached like that


    That doesn't mean the team won't be good and that Wilson won't be good in a couple years.

    Rebuild. It's all new for everyone on the team and in the FO. They deserve time. Every one of them

    Will we ***** and moan about them sucking and people criticize one player more than another? Of course.

    Rebuild



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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    I find ii absurd to blame Wilson in any way for what's happening

    These three miserable games have taught us nothing about how good he will become

    If the past three years have taught us nothing else, they have taught us that an awful, talentless team run by the clueless tells you nothing about the talent of the QB trying to function in it

    Darnold is tearing it up in Carolina after looking horrific in New York for three years.
    We suspected Darnold might be good, but you just couldn't't tell in this environment.

    It's hard to believe anyone would be trying to diss on Wilson after what we've just been thru
    Wilson has been bad, not to say he won't be good eventually.
    But right now, he sux and deserves a fair share of criticism.

    Don't really see how you can defend his decision making with the ball so far, it's been awful.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    Wilson has been bad, not to say he won't be good eventually.
    But right now, he sux and deserves a fair share of criticism.

    Don't really see how you can defend his decision making with the ball so far, it's been awful.
    I think its weird that people preach patience with rebuilding then suggest a rookie QB deserves a significant amount of criticism. Like how did we expect the kid to play when he has a bad offensive line, no explosive RB, a WR core that isn't particularly good, etc. Like I get the numbers are what they are but who is going to succeed with this bad of an offense? Are any rookie QBs lighting it up right now btw?

    I guess it depends on your expectations but none of this is surprising to me. I feel like a lot of this is on the playcalling too. If you know the kid is struggling, then adjust the offense some to help him.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-27-2021 at 11:47 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I think its weird that people preach patience with rebuilding then suggest a rookie QB deserves a significant amount of criticism. Like how did we expect the kid to play when he has a bad offensive line, no explosive RB, a WR core that isn't particularly good, etc. Like I get the numbers are what they are but who is going to succeed with this bad of an offense? Are any rookie QBs lighting it up right now btw?

    I guess it depends on your expectations but none of this is surprising to me. I feel like a lot of this is on the playcalling too. If you know the kid is struggling, then adjust the offense some to help him.
    Alot of his interceptions have nothing to do with the OL or WRs.
    Wilson is struggling with his decision making and ball placement.

    It's part of the rookie growing process, but because its part of his learning curve does not excuse him from his share of criticism.

    Zero TDs 2 weeks in a row.
    Every single int from week 2 had nothing to do with the OL.

    Zach needs a calming influence, whether it be a vet QB or the OC coming down from the booth to be on the sidelines.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    Alot of his interceptions have nothing to do with the OL or WRs.
    Wilson is struggling with his decision making and ball placement.

    It's part of the rookie growing process, but because its part of his learning curve does not excuse him from his share of criticism.

    Zero TDs 2 weeks in a row.
    Every single int from week 2 had nothing to do with the OL.

    Zach needs a calming influence, whether it be a vet QB or the OC coming down from the booth to be on the sidelines.
    I think this is the most glaring issue of the FO. I have feeling they did it as a statement. With ZW we ride or die.

    But yeah, criticize everything but the new QB because he's the hope? No. The OL doesn't throw the ball. It doesn't stare at the large or hold the ball or try to extend a play and learn that you aren't as fast vs NFL players as you were vs the college teams you played.
    The beauty of all those things? They can be learned and changed. He can learn to do those things. It's not a skill thing. He is really mobile, he does have a very good arm, he is smart.

    But it is really damning to watch Sam.



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  6. #51
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    Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    Wilson has been bad, not to say he won't be good eventually.
    But right now, he sux and deserves a fair share of criticism.

    Don't really see how you can defend his decision making with the ball so far, it's been awful.
    The focus is off Wilson right now and on the GM and coaching staff.
    The product on the field is awful.

    I like Douglas, but, let's face it, the talent level now is just as bad as it was two years ago.
    He's still got a long leash in my mind. If the talent level doesn't improve significantly, even Aaron Rogers wouldn't win with this team moving forward, let alone Wilson.

    As far as the coaches are concerned. I'm trying to detect an improvement over Gase right now and I can't. Which is saying a lot. The Jets don't look like the belong in the NFL. These guys are rookies and it's obviously way too early to give up on them. But, on the other hand, they've shown us absolutely nothing so far. There's been no reason for optimism.

    And, in my mind, their handling of Mims is a big red flag aside from the abortion that we're seeing on the field. Mims can't even make it onto the field with what we've seen the past three weeks? His presence out there certainly couldn't make things any worse - they can't get any worse - what have these coaches got to lose by putting a talented playmaker out there?

    I have to tell you, its almost a miracle if my football season doesn't end in September with this Jets organization. At this point, I'd hire Rex back.

    I'm rooting for Carolina and Darnold. He's a good kid and I'm happy to see him vindicated for the crap he's had to put up with in New York for the past three years.

    Hopefully, Wilson will get a pass, so to speak, seeing that we've just gone thru the Darnold fiasco. But then, this is New York and these are Jets fans and media he's going to be dealing with. They're always looking for blood.
    Last edited by ortforshort; 09-28-2021 at 09:00 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    The focus is off Wilson right now and on the GM and coaching staff.
    The product on the field is awful.

    I like Douglas, but, let's face it, the talent level now is just as bad as it was two years ago.
    He's still got a long leash in my mind. If the talent level doesn't improve significantly, even Aaron Rogers wouldn't win with this team moving forward, let alone Wilson.

    As far as the coaches are concerned. I'm trying to detect an improvement over Gase right now and I can't. Which is saying a lot. The Jets don't look like the belong in the NFL. These guys are rookies and it's obviously way too early to give up on them. But, on the other hand, they've shown us absolutely nothing so far. There's been no reason for optimism.

    And, in my mind, their handling of Mims is a big red flag aside from the abortion that we're seeing on the field. Mims can't even make it onto the field with what we've seen the past three weeks? His presence out there certainly couldn't make things any worse - they can't get any worse - what have these coaches got to lose by putting a talented playmaker out there?

    I have to tell you, its almost a miracle if my football season doesn't end in September with this Jets organization. At this point, I'd hire Rex back.

    I'm rooting for Carolina and Darnold. He's a good kid and I'm happy to see him vindicated for the crap he's had to put up with in New York for the past three years.

    Hopefully, Wilson will get a pass, so to speak, seeing that we've just gone thru the Darnold fiasco. But then, this is New York and these are Jets fans and media he's going to be dealing with. They're always looking for blood.
    The bolded is a bit of an ironic statement whether intended or not. Your post basically slammed everyone but Wilson.

    I disagree about the talent level. I think it's too early to tell.
    No one is giving coaches or the FO a pass. This team is bad. That includes the young QB.
    A QB who had certain criticisms coming out of college and those flaws are showing themselves. Again, he can learn. But he is as ugly as the rest of the product. He is not a shining pillar or greatness, goodness or even acceptableness.
    If you think Wilson is playing well, ok. I fully disagree.

    I think the defense has been pretty good.

    Everyone on the team and staff need time to figure out who is who. Douglas and Saleh basically said, we will suck this year. We all knew this.

    Regarding whether the Jets feel the urgency to produce for their followers, Saleh replied of the fan base's input, "It's appreciated, obviously. We embrace the urgency at which everybody wants to win. But at the same time, that can't affect your decision-making for the long haul of the goal of winning championships for extended periods of time.



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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    The bolded is a bit of an ironic statement whether intended or not. Your post basically slammed everyone but Wilson.

    I disagree about the talent level. I think it's too early to tell.
    No one is giving coaches or the FO a pass. This team is bad. That includes the young QB.
    A QB who had certain criticisms coming out of college and those flaws are showing themselves. Again, he can learn. But he is as ugly as the rest of the product. He is not a shining pillar or greatness, goodness or even acceptableness.
    If you think Wilson is playing well, ok. I fully disagree.

    I think the defense has been pretty good.

    Everyone on the team and staff need time to figure out who is who. Douglas and Saleh basically said, we will suck this year. We all knew this.

    Regarding whether the Jets feel the urgency to produce for their followers, Saleh replied of the fan base's input, "It's appreciated, obviously. We embrace the urgency at which everybody wants to win. But at the same time, that can't affect your decision-making for the long haul of the goal of winning championships for extended periods of time.
    I think what you said about us expecting to suck is spot on. I would imagine for most of us, we realize that making the playoffs coming off of a 2-14 season would be darn near impossible, but we do want to see competitive play by years end. Personally, I was/am still hoping for somewhere between 6 and 8 wins (after this start maybe 4 or 5 plus), where Wilson and the young O-linemen and corners start figuring it out as the season progresses. If that happens, we finally can start drafting and signing guys in free agency from a position of strength, rather than looking to identify the guys with upside, who are more 'potential' signings, rather than established studs. For me, the young QB, team and coaches still get a bit of a pass, but we NEED to start seeing progress soon.
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  9. #54
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    ?

    I'm confused.

    We've had one winning season in the last ten and that was an easy schedule year and a mirage.
    Almost every year this team has been out of it before October. Including this year.

    Imagine having a meaningful game at Thanksgiving? Let alone Christmas. What a concept!

    After all of this, everyone wants to pile on a rookie quarterback. Really?

    Meanwhile everyone else in this woeful organisation gets a pass!

    OK

    So the talent level isn't that bad and the coaches and GM should be getting a pass, but the rookie QB needs to be held accountable? Sure, sounds logical to me. The team absolutely sucks, but let's only dis the QB. OK

    I'll be doing my annual Plan B on Sundays as, like many fans, you get tired of watching a train wreck over and over again. If I do watch any games, I'll start with Carolina where the last scapegoat is doing pretty well now that he's away from this mess. I figured it was a no brainer that others here would commiserate, but not so. So be it.
    Last edited by ortforshort; 09-28-2021 at 12:13 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    Alot of his interceptions have nothing to do with the OL or WRs.
    Wilson is struggling with his decision making and ball placement.

    It's part of the rookie growing process, but because its part of his learning curve does not excuse him from his share of criticism.

    Zero TDs 2 weeks in a row.
    Every single int from week 2 had nothing to do with the OL.

    Zach needs a calming influence, whether it be a vet QB or the OC coming down from the booth to be on the sidelines.
    I don't buy that all the interceptions are just bad reads or the kid holding the ball too long hoping for a play to develop. Yes that's part of it but his offensive line is not doing him any favors with all the pressures, QB hits and the 15 sacks already. I get that's on Wilson too but I've seen 3 interceptions that hit receivers hands. Its hard to be effective from the pocket if you aren't getting good protection either.

    I just don't know how much criticism he deserves. He's a rookie QB who we knew was going to have growing pains and he's not getting a ton of help.

    The thing is LaFleur has been calling plays from the sidelines. The running joke is he's always looking up at the scoreboard to see what didn't work on a certain play. The lack of a veteran backup isn't helpful. I think some of that goes overstated but in this instance someone should be able to spell the kid if he's struggling mightily.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-28-2021 at 07:06 PM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    The bolded is a bit of an ironic statement whether intended or not. Your post basically slammed everyone but Wilson.

    I disagree about the talent level. I think it's too early to tell.
    No one is giving coaches or the FO a pass. This team is bad. That includes the young QB.
    A QB who had certain criticisms coming out of college and those flaws are showing themselves. Again, he can learn. But he is as ugly as the rest of the product. He is not a shining pillar or greatness, goodness or even acceptableness.
    If you think Wilson is playing well, ok. I fully disagree.

    I think the defense has been pretty good.

    Everyone on the team and staff need time to figure out who is who. Douglas and Saleh basically said, we will suck this year. We all knew this.

    Regarding whether the Jets feel the urgency to produce for their followers, Saleh replied of the fan base's input, "It's appreciated, obviously. We embrace the urgency at which everybody wants to win. But at the same time, that can't affect your decision-making for the long haul of the goal of winning championships for extended periods of time.
    I thought they'd suck this year but I expected progress. Look I realize it's only been 3 games but I have yet to see ONE thing on offense that made me say, "that was clever" or "that was innovative'. This to me is disappointing. There's plenty of time to change this but I definitely want to see development or this whole year will be a fail.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFanAlways View Post
    I thought they'd suck this year but I expected progress. Look I realize it's only been 3 games but I have yet to see ONE thing on offense that made me say, "that was clever" or "that was innovative'. This to me is disappointing. There's plenty of time to change this but I definitely want to see development or this whole year will be a fail.
    Yeah, offense has been unpleasant. I will say that there was some improvement in the running game. Small offerings, I know but it's one aspect on which they can hopefully build.



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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    I'm confused.

    We've had one winning season in the last ten and that was an easy schedule year and a mirage.
    Almost every year this team has been out of it before October. Including this year.

    Imagine having a meaningful game at Thanksgiving? Let alone Christmas. What a concept!

    After all of this, everyone wants to pile on a rookie quarterback. Really?

    Meanwhile everyone else in this woeful organisation gets a pass!


    OK

    So the talent level isn't that bad and the coaches and GM should be getting a pass, but the rookie QB needs to be held accountable? Sure, sounds logical to me. The team absolutely sucks, but let's only dis the QB. OK

    I'll be doing my annual Plan B on Sundays as, like many fans, you get tired of watching a train wreck over and over again. If I do watch any games, I'll start with Carolina where the last scapegoat is doing pretty well now that he's away from this mess. I figured it was a no brainer that others here would commiserate, but not so. So be it.

    For the bolded, who s remotely suggesting that Wilson is solely or even largely or even somewhat at fault for the teams poor play?

    No one has done that. You seem to have found a corner and are painting yourself into it.
    I don't think anyone disagrees that this product is the responsibility of the entire Jets ownership, FO, Coaches and players. It is a systemic issue.


    So to be clear.

    I agree that the coaches are to blame
    I agree that Joe D is to blame
    I agree that the players are to blame

    Where I don't agree is simply giving Wilson a pass.
    He's a rookie QB in a new offense. It is not strange to see him struggle but he is struggling and some of that is on him. He is responsible for his own play.
    What happens in NE if he doesn't throw two ints in a row? We will never know but He made two bad throws. (Davis could have caught the second but it would have been a very good catch and that throw should not have been made). Rookie mistake but still his mistake.
    This is not piling on him. This is reiterating what many have stated. He is a part of this team and its poor play. Unfortunately for him, he came in under the brightest light, highest comparisons and expectations.

    As far as watching the team be crap for over a decade ? It sucks.
    The reason I am more optimistic is because they have told us they will suck and it will be a bumpy ride.
    This isn't a "retooling" year to be a 500 team and pretend to be in the mix for a playoff bid.
    This is a, "We are not going to be good."

    I would rather have have a team tell me they are rebuilding and it will be rough than I would the same old, "we are a couple players away, fans need to be patient the team is close"



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  14. #59
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    Why Bother Arguing - That's pretty much the point of this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    For the bolded, who s remotely suggesting that Wilson is solely or even largely or even somewhat at fault for the teams poor play?

    No one has done that. You seem to have found a corner and are painting yourself into it.
    I don't think anyone disagrees that this product is the responsibility of the entire Jets ownership, FO, Coaches and players. It is a systemic issue.


    So to be clear.

    I agree that the coaches are to blame
    I agree that Joe D is to blame
    I agree that the players are to blame

    Where I don't agree is simply giving Wilson a pass.
    He's a rookie QB in a new offense. It is not strange to see him struggle but he is struggling and some of that is on him. He is responsible for his own play.
    What happens in NE if he doesn't throw two ints in a row? We will never know but He made two bad throws. (Davis could have caught the second but it would have been a very good catch and that throw should not have been made). Rookie mistake but still his mistake.
    This is not piling on him. This is reiterating what many have stated. He is a part of this team and its poor play. Unfortunately for him, he came in under the brightest light, highest comparisons and expectations.

    As far as watching the team be crap for over a decade ? It sucks.
    The reason I am more optimistic is because they have told us they will suck and it will be a bumpy ride.
    This isn't a "retooling" year to be a 500 team and pretend to be in the mix for a playoff bid.
    This is a, "We are not going to be good."

    I would rather have have a team tell me they are rebuilding and it will be rough than I would the same old, "we are a couple players away, fans need to be patient the team is close"
    I 100% DO NOT blame Wilson
    After 10 years of putrid (not just bad) play, I'm not going to sit here and lay any of this on a rookie QB three games into his career. Period.

    I can't believe anyone would even try to put 1% on Wilson after watching us run an excellent young QB out of town for last three years. The bloodsport of the typical Jets fan apparently.

    Also, what corner am I painting myself into? The Jets can't seem to find a GM or coaches who do anything but suck corner? You all should be in this corner with me.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    I 100% DO NOT blame Wilson
    After 10 years of putrid (not just bad) play, I'm not going to sit here and lay any of this on a rookie QB three games into his career. Period.

    I can't believe anyone would even try to put 1% on Wilson after watching us run an excellent young QB out of town for last three years. The bloodsport of the typical Jets fan apparently.

    Also, what corner am I painting myself into? The Jets can't seem to find a GM or coaches who do anything but suck corner? You all should be in this corner with me.
    I'm 100% with you. I think Wilson is going to be awesome. More importantly, I think we all should temper the blame talk and just wait to see how our young players and coaching staff progress throughout the season. That being said, we all deserve and are entitled to seeing competent, competitive football, sooner rather than later.
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