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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headache 21 View Post
    It's harder to play defense today because the NBA purposefully changes the rules to make it so. And the three point shot becoming a bigger part of the game was also due to rule changes that changed illegal defense and allowed zone defenses.

    Everything they've done was in the name of more offense - and I shudder to think of what Jordan would have done offensively with these rules.
    Yeah, that's really what I think a lot of people are completely ignoring when trying to compare their numbers. I'm by no means an MJ fan, but his numbers in this era would likely be wilt chamberlain like

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, that's really what I think a lot of people are completely ignoring when trying to compare their numbers. I'm by no means an MJ fan, but his numbers in this era would likely be wilt chamberlain like
    No it wouldn't. Ya'll are so nostalgic. MJ didn't beat historically great teams. He beat a ton of mediocre teams. Did he ever beat any superteam that was in their prime? Heck, the Bulls WERE the only superteam when MJ began winning. Watching the game, MJ was NOT a better scorer than KD and you can't convince me there is a significant skill difference between Kobe and MJ to claim MJ would put up Wilt Chamberlain numbers. PER36 numbers, Harden has outperformed MJ statistically as well. So this claim that MJ is so much better than the rest of the league that it would amount to Wilt's dominance is just illogical MJ hype.

  3. #123
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    I agree that MJ's numbers might be a bit fluffed in today's league with the way the game is called, offensively slanted team building and modern spacing, but I never understood the people that say something like "he'd average 50 PPG!!!" or whatever. Like, how did you get this number lol

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    I agree that MJ's numbers might be a bit fluffed in today's league with the way the game is called, offensively slanted team building and modern spacing, but I never understood the people that say something like "he'd average 50 PPG!!!" or whatever. Like, how did you get this number lol
    Sports is the only thing people believe paradoxically that as the players get bigger, faster, and stronger, they get drastically worse.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Sports is the only thing people believe paradoxically that as the players get bigger, faster, and stronger, they get drastically worse.
    if only LeBron had the postseason success of guys like Dominique Wilkins, Pete Maravich, or David Thompson maybe then NYK would put him on the same tier as those guys.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    if only LeBron had the postseason success of guys like Dominique Wilkins, Pete Maravich, or David Thompson maybe then NYK would put him on the same tier as those guys.
    Unfortunately there’s nothing Bron could do to compare because he plays in the modern era, therefore no matter how good you are, you will never be as good as those played before.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    No it wouldn't. Ya'll are so nostalgic. MJ didn't beat historically great teams. He beat a ton of mediocre teams. Did he ever beat any superteam that was in their prime? Heck, the Bulls WERE the only superteam when MJ began winning. Watching the game, MJ was NOT a better scorer than KD and you can't convince me there is a significant skill difference between Kobe and MJ to claim MJ would put up Wilt Chamberlain numbers. PER36 numbers, Harden has outperformed MJ statistically as well. So this claim that MJ is so much better than the rest of the league that it would amount to Wilt's dominance is just illogical MJ hype.
    Well there isn't significant difference in skill between kobe and mj...if kobe played in the league today in his prime, he too would put up absurd numbers. There are a few other guys who would as well, not just MJ or Kobe. Bird is another one who comes to mind and magic as well. MJ was definitely a better scorer than KD. KD is a great shooter, but isn't a great athlete or a very good ball handler nor is he great off the ball and he's not very strong physically (which isn't a problem in today's NBA because defenders can't touch guys, but it would've been somewhat of a factor under the old rules); nothing special off the dribble either and doesn't have great post moves. KD is tall, a decent ball handler, and an all-time great shooter. He's definitely a better shooter than MJ, but that's about it.

    To compare KD or Harden to MJ is silly. They are in different universes. The numbers they are putting up now they are doing so under extremely different and super offensive friendly rules. This is coming from someone who is not an MJ fan at all, but those guys do not compare to MJ in the slightest.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-13-2021 at 09:38 PM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    I agree that MJ's numbers might be a bit fluffed in today's league with the way the game is called, offensively slanted team building and modern spacing, but I never understood the people that say something like "he'd average 50 PPG!!!" or whatever. Like, how did you get this number lol
    Well he averaged 37 in an era where defenses were allowed to be extremely physical and outright dirty. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me that in an era where defenses can hardly touch guys that he'd average an extra 13

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Well he averaged 37 in an era where defenses were allowed to be extremely physical and outright dirty. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me that in an era where defenses can hardly touch guys that he'd average an extra 13
    There’s no way he’d get 50. 40 is a distinct possibility however, which would be insane in its own right.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    There’s no way he’d get 50. 40 is a distinct possibility however, which would be insane in its own right.
    I don't know if he'd get 50...I do think he would go over 40 though, especially if he were on a weak team where he was the only option. I do agree that 40 or over would be insane and is a testament to his greatness.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-13-2021 at 09:52 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Well he averaged 37 in an era where defenses were allowed to be extremely physical and outright dirty. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me that in an era where defenses can hardly touch guys that he'd average an extra 13
    lol an extra 13 isn't some casual amount. That's ****ing insane. Honestly if you have a player on your team averaging 50 PPG that's probably a bad thing. That's an insanely unhealthy amount of shot attempts, and would likely signal a lack of playmaking to their game, which we all know Jordan had plenty of.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    lol an extra 13 isn't some casual amount. That's ****ing insane. Honestly if you have a player on your team averaging 50 PPG that's probably a bad thing. That's an insanely unhealthy amount of shot attempts, and would likely signal a lack of playmaking to their game, which we all know Jordan had plenty of.
    Well right, I didn't say it would necessarily be a good thing. I do think MJ's numbers would be much higher though in today's NBA than they were when he was playing.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-14-2021 at 04:20 PM.

  13. #133
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    im super late to this, but you can't possibly compare the 96-98 era scoring to what we have today. they aren't remotely comparable. Jordan had Ron Harper, Dennis Rodman, and Luc longley as 3 of his starting position players. all 3 good defenders, but all 3 were really useless on offense.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    im super late to this, but you can't possibly compare the 96-98 era scoring to what we have today. they aren't remotely comparable. Jordan had Ron Harper, Dennis Rodman, and Luc longley as 3 of his starting position players. all 3 good defenders, but all 3 were really useless on offense.
    At the same time, the league wasn't nearly as good offensively the way it is today. Who was Jordan guarding daily in the guard or small forward position that was actually superstar level when he actually began winning titles? Way too many changes in how the game is played. I'm not going to go over the pros/cons of these changes but I don't understand the obsession with having to rank players numerically and then go through hypothetical scenarios to prove an argument. Tiers are consistently the best when ranking individuals through historical context. Would MJ be as clutch today say if they needed a 3 point shot to win or tie the game? So how can we even equate that as compared to Curry who could most certainly be more lethal in that department than MJ?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    At the same time, the league wasn't nearly as good offensively the way it is today. Who was Jordan guarding daily in the guard or small forward position that was actually superstar level when he actually began winning titles? Way too many changes in how the game is played. I'm not going to go over the pros/cons of these changes but I don't understand the obsession with having to rank players numerically and then go through hypothetical scenarios to prove an argument. Tiers are consistently the best when ranking individuals through historical context. Would MJ be as clutch today say if they needed a 3 point shot to win or tie the game? So how can we even equate that as compared to Curry who could most certainly be more lethal in that department than MJ?
    Jordan is a tier


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