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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Trading for Chapman was a big part of the reason why the Cubs won the 2016 WS. I'm not buying this idea that Theo is going to be this pariah no one is going to engage with. If he told teams tomorrow that he wanted to be a team executive again, you would have more than half the league who would show significant interest and someone would pay him a small fortune to run their organization.
    On paper, trading Kelenic for Diaz/Cano was an infinitely better move than trading Torres for a Chapman rentalÖjust saying.

    Heyward, Chapman, Darvish, Lester, bringing in Russell, and so onÖEpstein sucked at bringing in outside talent, the Mets need a GM who specializes in free agency.


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  2. #47
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    Is it possible that Cohen has to keep Alderson around for a certain amount of time and thatís why the owners approved the sale. As in, it may be in writing that Alderson has to be here for 3 years to ensure Cohen doesnít go spend crazy 🤷🏼*♂️

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    On paper, trading Kelenic for Diaz/Cano was an infinitely better move than trading Torres for a Chapman rentalÖjust saying.

    Heyward, Chapman, Darvish, Lester, bringing in Russell, and so onÖEpstein sucked at bringing in outside talent, the Mets need a GM who specializes in free agency.


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    Neither trade was particularly good but at least the Cubs won a WS after making theirs. Diaz and Cano haven't yielded even a playoff birth yet.

    And Stearns/Beane are excellent at signing FA? Their best qualities are player development and producing younger talent. Theo did a good job of that too. Difference is he's won 3 WS titles being a big market executive. That's the major advantage he has on the other two guys.

    The most important thing here is still developing your own talent. Yes, the Mets need to be aggressive in FA now but that's not the long term goal.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Neither trade was particularly good but at least the Cubs won a WS after making theirs. Diaz and Cano haven't yielded even a playoff birth yet.

    And Stearns/Beane are excellent at signing FA? Their best qualities are player development and producing younger talent. Theo did a good job of that too. Difference is he's won 3 WS titles being a big market executive. That's the major advantage he has on the other two guys.

    The most important thing here is still developing your own talent. Yes, the Mets need to be aggressive in FA now but that's not the long term goal.
    The Cubs won the World Series with Chapman, not because of him. Iím sorry but in no world is trading a top 5 prospect for like 40 innings of a relieverÖwho was very good in the regular season, but had to be pulled because he gave up a home run to ****ing Rajai Davis in game 7 lmfao.

    Diaz has produced more value, plain and simpleÖas has Cano.

    Stearns and Beane are great and player development but they have never been in a big market. What kind of deals they make remains to be seen. Weíve seen what Theo can do with a big budget, and itís not signing free agentsÖI forgot to mention Carl Crawford as another bust.

    He traded away DJ, signed Edwin Jackson and Tyler Chatwood, gave bad money to Kimbrel, and traded away a phenomenal prospect in Eloy for Jose Quintana lol.

    Look Iím not saying he wouldnít be an upgrade over what we have, Iím just saying that he isnít some Einstein rockstar who can solve the problems of this club with magic. He comes with his own flaws and has contributed to baseball turning to ****, by basically pioneering the rebuild phase.

    Maybe he comes back with a different mindset, who knows. There are other options out there, is all Iím saying.


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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    The Cubs won the World Series with Chapman, not because of him. Iím sorry but in no world is trading a top 5 prospect for like 40 innings of a relieverÖwho was very good in the regular season, but had to be pulled because he gave up a home run to ****ing Rajai Davis in game 7 lmfao.

    Diaz has produced more value, plain and simpleÖas has Cano.

    Stearns and Beane are great and player development but they have never been in a big market. What kind of deals they make remains to be seen. Weíve seen what Theo can do with a big budget, and itís not signing free agentsÖI forgot to mention Carl Crawford as another bust.

    He traded away DJ, signed Edwin Jackson and Tyler Chatwood, gave bad money to Kimbrel, and traded away a phenomenal prospect in Eloy for Jose Quintana lol.

    Look Iím not saying he wouldnít be an upgrade over what we have, Iím just saying that he isnít some Einstein rockstar who can solve the problems of this club with magic. He comes with his own flaws and has contributed to baseball turning to ****, by basically pioneering the rebuild phase.

    Maybe he comes back with a different mindset, who knows. There are other options out there, is all Iím saying.


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    It is when he's the last piece to ending a 108 year run without a title.

    Results matter. The Mets made that trade and still ended up not making the playoffs. The Cubs made that trade and won a world series. I doubt they redo it.

    No GMs who have had any extended tenure are going to be flawless in their moves. He's still the most accomplished executive out there and by a country mile. Even over current GMs and POBO. That counts for something.

    I'm not dismissing the other options. I just don't see this extensive list of winners you do. I'm not interested in more maybes. ****, I would take Jeff Lunhow over Billy Beane for example. Not that it would happen.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    No one wants to come here. NY is a toxic market with media and fans.
    It is toxic. But that hasnít deterred people in the past.

    I truly believe no big time exec, other than perhaps Beane, would want to come here and have Alderson looking over his shoulder for the owner.

    So it comes down to do the Mets want to remain Aldersonís team. I hope they donít. I know you like him. We can agree to disagree on this matter. But I am willing to admit I was wrong if I am wrong about the talent pool to run this team with Alderson around. I donít think Iím wrong.


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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    It is toxic. But that hasnít deterred people in the past.

    I truly believe no big time exec, other than perhaps Beane, would want to come here and have Alderson looking over his shoulder for the owner.

    So it comes down to do the Mets want to remain Aldersonís team. I hope they donít. I know you like him. We can agree to disagree on this matter. But I am willing to admit I was wrong if I am wrong about the talent pool to run this team with Alderson around. I donít think Iím wrong.


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    Actually it has: Realamuto, Neander, Chernoff, Spaeder, Cherrington & Young
    Players can be stars in another city. Hell, Jets fans booed their QB. Fans booed Lindor and the Mets. Why the **** would anyone want to come to the city?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    It is toxic. But that hasnít deterred people in the past.

    I truly believe no big time exec, other than perhaps Beane, would want to come here and have Alderson looking over his shoulder for the owner.

    So it comes down to do the Mets want to remain Aldersonís team. I hope they donít. I know you like him. We can agree to disagree on this matter. But I am willing to admit I was wrong if I am wrong about the talent pool to run this team with Alderson around. I donít think Iím wrong.


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    You're not wrong. The problems with Alderson's teams have been consistent throughout his tenure. Square pegs in round holes, bullpen woes, and lack of hitting. Its funny how the Mets were good offensively in the two years that Brodie was here (with many of the same roster pieces) and have **** the bed once Alderson was back in charge again. The timing of that may not reflective of Alderson but its awfully ironic considering that's the things people have been most critical of him in his 9 years here.

    I think you're 100% right that keeping Alderson around deters people from wanting to come here. Same with if the conditions are to keep Zack Scott around. Any established executive is going to want autonomy. If they had a clean slate, I'd bet a 1000 bucks the Mets could get anyone they were targeting as POBO.

  9. #54
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    Heyman & Rosenthal hinting Beane to the Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Actually it has: Realamuto, Neander, Chernoff, Spaeder, Cherrington & Young
    Players can be stars in another city. Hell, Jets fans booed their QB. Fans booed Lindor and the Mets. Why the **** would anyone want to come to the city?
    There will be people who donít come but plenty of top talent will always be interested.

    I think theyíre far more likely to be deterred by entering a situation where they have Alderson looking over their shoulder than any concern about the toxic media market.


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    Last edited by GottaBelieve; 09-21-2021 at 08:15 PM.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  10. #55
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    I wonder what Baez will do, he has dealt with ****** media and fans booing him, so will he stay because it seems the Mets will plan to resign him or will he go back to his old team who likely will Perdue him as well and fans love him there.


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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    There will be people who donít come but plenty of top talent will always be interested.

    I think theyíre far more likely to be deterred by entering a situation where they have Alderson looking over their shoulder than any concern about the toxic media market.


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    Players don't want to come here.
    I guess Springer did, Wheeler wanted to stay but they can make the same amount of money and play in San Diego.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    I wonder what Baez will do, he has dealt with ****** media and fans booing him, so will he stay because it seems the Mets will plan to resign him or will he go back to his old team who likely will Perdue him as well and fans love him there.


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    He will go where he gets paid the most.


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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Players don't want to come here.
    I guess Springer did, Wheeler wanted to stay but they can make the same amount of money and play in San Diego.
    And imagine if we signed those 2 instead of.. what we did.

    Iím sick of the last 2 regimes. I want a high end baseball exec with a clean slate.


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  14. #59
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    I really want Beane.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  15. #60
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    I have to presume that Alderson/Cohen would want to resort to cronyism, just for the fact that itís easier to vet and the familiarity aspect has some benefits.

    Callaway, Porter, and to a lesser degree - Scott, were all outside hires. Considering the shitstorm that is the media, Iím sure the Mets would want somebody who is both qualified and has a good reputation, for both manager and GM/POBO.

    So Iím gonna go out on a limb and say the next manager/GM/POBO will have to fit this criteria;

    -Is already familiar with Alderson/Cohen or somebody high with respect in the Mets organization, so that they know theyíre not hiring somebody whoís going to be arrested for tax fraud or drug smuggling.

    Ie, Beane or Owens. Or Bob Melvin for the manager side.

    -Has already established themself in whatever role theyíre already in/has a track record of success, or at least prior experience in one of those roles. I doubt the Mets will want to go with an experiment this time around. No Porter, Rojas, Beltran, Scott, Callaway, etc.

    Somebody like Stearns or Epstein. Maybe a Rick Renteria, Brad Ausmus, or something.

    -Somebody without a cloud of controversy hanging over them in any aspect. I doubt they go after a Jeff Luhnow or bring back Beltran to manage.

    -Truly understands new school baseball and doesnít build a roster or manage according to either feel or blind matchups. L/R splits are like the most basic analytic matchups that people defer to, but itís deeper than that.

    All in all I think considerations will come down to the following names;

    For manager: Bob Melvin, Rick Renteria, Brad Ausmus, Joe Maddon, Miguel Cairo, Will Venable, Joe McEwing, Joe Espada, and Kevin LongÖBeltran is a long shot.

    For GM/POBO: Chernoff, Josh Byrnes, Chris Antonetti, Billy Owens, Billy Beane, David Stearns, Amiel Sawdaye, Theo Epstein, and Matt Arnold.

    Iím probably missing a few names but Iím guessing this is how itíll all shake out.


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