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  1. #91
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    Alderson and Beane worked together from 2019-2020 because the A’s hired him as an advisor.


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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Alderson and Beane worked together from 2019-2020 because the A’s hired him as an advisor.


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    Oh I didn't realize that.

  3. #93
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    I don't care if Alderson is back so long as he has absolutely nothing to do with players, major league or minor league, trades , free agent signings,

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    No, it's cronyism. They get used interchangeably sometimes, but nepotism generally refers to the hiring or privileging of relatives, whereas cronyism means doing so for friends and associates.

    To Z's point, I'm not sure hiring Beane makes vetting easier for Alderson. They haven't worked together in years, and after this last fiasco Alderson and the Mets are going to have to completely revamp their process. Actually, I kind of hoped Alderson would be let go as well just for that reason - and also because he sucks, but his poor hiring alone should have been enough to get the boot. So maybe the benefit of this mess is that Alderson won't just assume anyone's a safer pick because he knows them. Maybe this will broaden the search...especially if the new process uncovers some less-than-savory things about his pals.

    I just don't want to get too excited about the hire. I know what will disappoint me, but I don't think anyone is a sure bet to turn the franchise around. Alderson is a snake, as far as I'm concerned, and Cohen is a complete wild card. Just on a baseball level, I'm sure the people we've talked about are smart and skilled enough to get the job done, but adding in those factors, like Alderson's inability to hire the one position he was brought in to hire (which makes you wonder if he wasn't angling for it the whole time) and Cohen's idiotic tweets (which presumably speak to him being an annoyance in the front office, as well) I will have to wait and see before I get my hopes up.
    Cronyism involves the hiring of someone without the proper regard for their qualifications. That's not the case here. Beane is qualified as they come. Nepotism can just as much be about putting friends in positions of power. It can be the driving force irrespective of qualifications.

    I don't think Alderson wanted to be POBO. They were just put in a time crunch because of when the sale happened. I always thought someone would hire that person this offseason and the way it was originally set up it certainly seemed like Theo Epstein was the guy they had their eyes on. Based on his previous relationship with Porter (until he was fired) and Zack Scott (who might be re-assigned following the season). Porter getting relieved of his duties and Scott at risk of losing his job maybe change those plans but all the signs pointed to Epstein being that main target this offseason. He still might be but it will just be under different circumstances.

    I prefer someone who isn't associated with Alderson in any respect but whatever it is, it has to be a slam dunk hire. This season has been ravaged by ******** from Alderson, to Cohen, to Porter, to Scott, to Rojas, to the team in general. They need a steadying presence who can turn them into a winning franchise and yes I do believe Theo can be that even with his previous associations with Porter. I prefer him to anyone not named David Stearns.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-25-2021 at 01:52 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Cronyism involves the hiring of someone without the proper regard for their qualifications. That's not the case here. Beane is qualified as they come. Nepotism can just as much be about putting friends in positions of power. It can be the driving force irrespective of qualifications.
    Both cronyism and nepotism are irrespective of qualifications. The difference between the two concepts is who gets the favoritism. Nepotism refers to family: nepote, the Italian word the phrase is based on, means “nephew”. Cronyism means friends and associates, or “cronies”.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    Both cronyism and nepotism are irrespective of qualifications. The difference between the two concepts is who gets the favoritism. Nepotism refers to family: nepote, the Italian word the phrase is based on, means “nephew”.
    Splitting hairs. The Collins Dictionary and the Google definition include friends as part of that group.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=nepo...client=gws-wiz

    Whatever the case is, they're not potentially hiring him in complete disregard of his qualifications. Beane is overly qualified to run any organization irrespective of his relationship with Alderson.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-25-2021 at 02:06 PM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Splitting hairs. The Collins Dictionary and the Google definition include friends as part of that group.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=nepo...client=gws-wiz

    Whatever the case is, they're not potentially hiring him in complete disregard of his qualifications. Beane is overly qualified to run any organization irrespective of his relationship with Alderson.
    You’re the one who’s splitting hairs. Z and I both used cronyism, which is a more precise word to use for putting your friends in positions of power. Sure, nepotism can colloquially refer to favoritism broadly, and I even said that the terms are often used interchangeably. But if nepotism is informally correct, cronyism is *more* correct. And both types of favoritism fail to account for qualifications, obviously; otherwise it wouldn’t be favoritism.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    You’re the one who’s splitting hairs. Z and I both used cronyism, which is a more precise word to use for putting your friends in positions of power. Sure, nepotism can colloquially refer to favoritism broadly, and I even said that the terms are often used interchangeably. But if nepotism is informally correct, cronyism is *more* correct. And both types of favoritism fail to account for qualifications, obviously; otherwise it wouldn’t be favoritism.
    This isn't an instance of putting friends in power irrespective of qualification though. Most teams would line up to hire Billy Beane. The Mets just have an inside track (presumably) because of their market, the money, and because of Alderson's prior relationship with Billy. I don't see a scenario where it any juxtaposition to it being a non merit hire. I don't understand how something is *more* correct if they are interchangeable (according to you) and the textbook definition involves putting friends in jobs due to relational circumstances.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    This isn't an instance of putting friends in power irrespective of qualification though. Most teams would line up to hire Billy Beane. The Mets just have an inside track (presumably) because of their market, the money, and because of Alderson's prior relationship with Billy. I don't see a scenario where it any juxtaposition to it being a non merit hire. I don't understand how something is *more* correct if they are interchangeable (according to you) and the textbook definition involves putting friends in jobs due to relational circumstances.
    I said they’re [i]used[/] interchangeably. Like how “literally” is used to mean “figuratively” nowadays. Cronyism is more correct because it more precisely describes the situation. Nepotism could work, but it has always referred to relatives being given positions and authority, and dates back to when popes would appoint their “nephews” (apparently often illegitimate sons) positions of power within the church.

    And we say it isn’t a merit hire because we think literally no one else would have a shot at the job if Beane were interested, due to his relationship with Alderson. Regardless of if he’s qualified or not, is he the best choice for the job? I doubt it matters, because the guy hiring him is someone he’s worked with for years, and who he himself hired a couple of years ago to a consultant job.

    And if people would line up to hire him, how come nobody has? Don’t get me wrong, he’s done a nice job in Oakland, but he hasn’t won a WS. I feel like he’s shielded from criticism because it’s a small market with low expectations. Alderson was supposed to bring that Moneyball thing to the big market too, remember, and outside of one charmed run to the World Series, his tenure was mostly disappointing. And his second tenure is a disaster.

  10. #100
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    Why are the Mets always trying to hire someone who was viewed as the cutting edge guy 20 years ago?

    For once I’d like the cutting edge guy of today.


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    Don't worry. He's got this.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    Why are the Mets always trying to hire someone who was viewed as the cutting edge guy 20 years ago?

    For once I’d like the cutting edge guy of today.


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    Kind of what I’ve been getting at…ie Stearns.

    Who knows if Epstein and Beane are ready to push their teams to the next level?

    Although I’d love for us to target Chapman….kind of off topic. He’d be the next best thing to Arenado.


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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Kind of what I’ve been getting at…ie Stearns.

    Who knows if Epstein and Beane are ready to push their teams to the next level?

    Although I’d love for us to target Chapman….kind of off topic. He’d be the next best thing to Arenado.


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    Yes Matt Chapman is a wonderful defensive 3B and you are probably correct that next to Arenado he probably is the best defensive 3B although Padre fans might disagree with you .

    That said , this year with 511 ABs, he is hitting .215 with 27 HRS. He is a lifetime .245 hitter.

    I too am a fan of David Stearns but he is under contract with the Brewers for another year and last year they did not allow us to even interview him.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyndave View Post
    Yes Matt Chapman is a wonderful defensive 3B and you are probably correct that next to Arenado he probably is the best defensive 3B although Padre fans might disagree with you .

    That said , this year with 511 ABs, he is hitting .215 with 27 HRS. He is a lifetime .245 hitter.

    I too am a fan of David Stearns but he is under contract with the Brewers for another year and last year they did not allow us to even interview him.
    Chapman was also coming off shoulder surgery, his value could be potentially pretty low. Idk if a combo package of JD + Cortes or something could get it done.


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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Chapman was also coming off shoulder surgery, his value could be potentially pretty low. Idk if a combo package of JD + Cortes or something could get it done.


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    If the Mets don't want JD why would Oakland take him? Even with Cortes, who btw is already long in the tooth for his level (AA), it doesn't make sense. Chapman isn't making that much money, albeit more than JD.

    I think the Mets would have to give up more than what you suggest. Agreed, defensively that would be a major improvement. But again, like with Baez (if he stays), there is another power hitter with low BA and OBP. We need guys who can drive in runs and you can do that just as easily with a single as with a homer, except singles are more plentiful if you are a good hitter.

    Having said that Chapman is not the ideal hitter for the Mets, he is the ideal defender at 3B and I would do a deal if it were reasonable. But I'm not sure the As want JD.

    Assuming Beane becomes head of baseball operations for the Mets, I would want to see what his take is on such a move for Chapman. But I think the Mets have to give up more.

  15. #105
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    I think when Cohen bought the team from the Wilpons many of us were as excited about a fresh start as we were about the influx of big money into the team.

    But when he brought Alderson back it was like, him again? Better than BVW but really? And now hearing that Alderson wants to bring Beane in just has that “more of the same”feel to it.

    I dunno. Maybe it’s me.

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